Solar panels set to be mandatory on all new buildings under EU plan - page 3.

bakasabo

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Quote from: stompix on June 27, 2022, 05:33:48 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on June 27, 2022, 02:17:30 AM

My monthly electricity bill is about 40 EUR.

If you consume 150kwh a month, I highly doubt your bill is just 40 euros right now in Germany, no fricking way you're getting 25cents per kWh with all vat and taxes and monthly fees, E.On already charges 44 cents per kWh in Hannover, I can tell you this from a May bill my co-worker received.

Like I've said, I am not an expert. I spend on average 5kw daily, sometimes more, sometime less. I am not from Germany. I dont want to lie, but I remember something about 15 or 16 cents khw (but I clearly remember several years ago it cost 6 cents and while others had price increase, I've had 5.8 cents), plus electricity delivery, taxes and other mystery lines in the bill. My average electricity bills are around 40 EUR, no matter if it are sunny summer days, or dark winter.

I am not living in a private house, but in an apartment house with 100+ flats. The roof if huge, but the house itself is old. There is no way neighbors gonna sign an agreement to install solar panels. Firstly they wont do it due to low income, and "house maintenance budget" is not so huge to afford to cover whole roof with panels, or at least with reasonable amount of panels to make them worth installing.

bustabitsboy

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Quote from: helloinox on June 27, 2022, 12:29:23 PM

You guys are missing the bigger picture. Solar panels have the variable cause the dependent on the sun lit in its way to provide power. This makes it become tricky to make it an energy source for stable 24/7/365 day, all season in EU country. The movement or green deal behind it quite not close to what it stood since waste from the battery, from the used panels, from maintaining upkeep doesn't worth what it can give back. I rather have EU haste its plan to renew and build the new nuclear plants.

Yes, that would be much better than solar panels. But this will take many years, maybe decades. Solar panels can provide electricity today. Indeed, maintenance and repair will require a lot of costs and not everyone will benefit from it. In addition, in this way it will be possible to support manufacturers of solar panels. They also need income. Especially if they are produced in their own country.

helloinox

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You guys are missing the bigger picture. Solar panels have the variable cause the dependent on the sun lit in its way to provide power. This makes it become tricky to make it an energy source for stable 24/7/365 day, all season in EU country. The movement or green deal behind it quite not close to what it stood since waste from the battery, from the used panels, from maintaining upkeep doesn't worth what it can give back. I rather have EU haste its plan to renew and build the new nuclear plants.

stompix

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Quote from: bakasabo on June 27, 2022, 02:17:30 AM

I am not an expert, but I will try to come to a logical conclusion by throwing some googled data here. In a ~60m2 flat I spend about 5kw daily. I cant install solar panels on house facade only for myself, but I will copy data from "company that provide solar panel, installations services and etc". Company has a portfolio. From a picture of private house roof that says 5kw I see 8 panels.

You're mixing power and energy.
You're spending 5kwh each day, not kw, and solar panels don't come in kwh they come in more likely watts alone.
If you have 4x250 watts panels (1kw), and you have 4 hours of sunshine you will produce 4kwh of power that day.

So basically you will need 5 panels for your consumption.

Quote from: bakasabo on June 27, 2022, 02:17:30 AM

From a picture of private house roof that says 5kw I see 8 panels.

That's power, a 5KW system will produce 5kwh each hour.

Quote from: bakasabo on June 27, 2022, 02:17:30 AM

My monthly electricity bill is about 40 EUR.

If you consume 150kwh a month, I highly doubt your bill is just 40 euros right now in Germany, no fricking way you're getting 25cents per kWh with all vat and taxes and monthly fees, E.On already charges 44 cents per kWh in Hannover, I can tell you this from a May bill my co-worker received.

bakasabo

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Quote from: TheNineClub on June 25, 2022, 03:55:07 PM

Someone here mentioned that not much european countries can take advantage of that, and that's not true. With Spain and Grece there is also Italy and Croatia, some parts of Slovenia, but actually, it's 32 degrees and sunny in Berlin these days, and that tells me that a lot of countries will be able to take advantage of this, at least a couple of months a year, and that's plenty.

According to the German Meteorological Service, aka the German Weather Service (DWD), in 2021 the annual quantity of hours of sunshine in Germany totalled 1'631 hours, which means that the national average for the year was hours of sunshine a day or 136 full sunny days.

I am not an expert, but I will try to come to a logical conclusion by throwing some googled data here. In a ~60m2 flat I spend about 5kw daily. I cant install solar panels on house facade only for myself, but I will copy data from "company that provide solar panel, installations services and etc". Company has a portfolio. From a picture of private house roof that says 5kw I see 8 panels. Cheapest panel they offer cost 275 EUR. Plus mounting parts 59 EUR for each panel. I would also need a power invertor (985 EUR) and cables (100m long cost 175 EUR). It will cost me around 4000 EUR to be partly undependable from local energy provider. My monthly electricity bill is about 40 EUR. It will take more than 8 years minimum, before I will start to feel an advantage of solar panels. I would say that here weather is quite similar to Berlin. If we count that not days are sunny, then 8 years can easily turn into, maybe 13+ ?

TheNineClub

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Someone here mentioned that not much european countries can take advantage of that, and that's not true. With Spain and Grece there is also Italy and Croatia, some parts of Slovenia, but actually, it's 32 degrees and sunny in Berlin these days, and that tells me that a lot of countries will be able to take advantage of this, at least a couple of months a year, and that's plenty.

Freeesta

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Quote from: Naficopa on June 24, 2022, 03:20:34 PM

Quote from: Freeesta on June 23, 2022, 12:46:30 PM

Very happy for your friend! How long does he use solar panels? I think that buying a battery and all the equipment will require a lot of money. Does your friend live in a sunny climate? Solar panels are guaranteed for 10 years, and the service life of these panels is 20-30 years. Will he be able to recoup their cost in that time?

yes - we live in the area where temperature touches to 50 F in summer too. Its too hot mostly 5 months are summer. So we have air condition on for almost 4 months in row. HE is using the panels which send the electricity back to the power plant. That is how he has not paid any electricity bill after he has installed the panels.

It is perfectly! Solar panels are a good idea for such places. If we have the right climate we can save a lot of money. Solar panels can help out even in places where there is no electricity at all. For example, if your house is in the forest. A great savings option. During the use of solar panels, a lot can change and people will come up with alternative sources.

Naficopa

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Quote from: Freeesta on June 23, 2022, 12:46:30 PM

Very happy for your friend! How long does he use solar panels? I think that buying a battery and all the equipment will require a lot of money. Does your friend live in a sunny climate? Solar panels are guaranteed for 10 years, and the service life of these panels is 20-30 years. Will he be able to recoup their cost in that time?

yes - we live in the area where temperature touches to 50 F in summer too. Its too hot mostly 5 months are summer. So we have air condition on for almost 4 months in row. HE is using the panels which send the electricity back to the power plant. That is how he has not paid any electricity bill after he has installed the panels.

Freeesta

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Quote from: Naficopa on June 23, 2022, 10:13:19 AM

Quote from: Freeesta on June 21, 2022, 03:58:36 PM

Solar panels are good for warm but not hot climates. Huge equipment and battery costs, high maintenance and washing. For the correct operation of solar panels, a certain angle of inclination is required, and this is not always possible. To feel the benefits for your pocket, you need to use these panels for many years and there is no guarantee that they will pay off. Good idea but not for everyone.

Six months ago my friend installed solar panel. He is so happy and believed this is the best decision he had ever made.
The solar panel is future - one should grab it sooner the better.
I am also interested in installing solar panel in my home but problem is reverse electric meter.

Very happy for your friend! How long does he use solar panels? I think that buying a battery and all the equipment will require a lot of money. Does your friend live in a sunny climate? Solar panels are guaranteed for 10 years, and the service life of these panels is 20-30 years. Will he be able to recoup their cost in that time?

Naficopa

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Quote from: Freeesta on June 21, 2022, 03:58:36 PM

Solar panels are good for warm but not hot climates. Huge equipment and battery costs, high maintenance and washing. For the correct operation of solar panels, a certain angle of inclination is required, and this is not always possible. To feel the benefits for your pocket, you need to use these panels for many years and there is no guarantee that they will pay off. Good idea but not for everyone.

Six months ago my friend installed solar panel. He is so happy and believed this is the best decision he had ever made.
The solar panel is future - one should grab it sooner the better.
I am also interested in installing solar panel in my home but problem is reverse electric meter.

Freeesta

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#SWGT PRE-SALE IS LIVE

Solar panels are good for warm but not hot climates. Huge equipment and battery costs, high maintenance and washing. For the correct operation of solar panels, a certain angle of inclination is required, and this is not always possible. To feel the benefits for your pocket, you need to use these panels for many years and there is no guarantee that they will pay off. Good idea but not for everyone.

Ozero

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Quote from: teramit on June 13, 2022, 09:18:41 PM

nucular is the fastest and cheapest green energy that can power whole eu

Nuclear energy may be the fastest and cheapest, but at the same time the most dangerous for the population of our planet. We have already seen what ordinary accidents can lead to at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Ukraine and at the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant in Japan. We live in conditions of ever-increasing global climate change, which are accompanied by increased natural disasters. An accident at a nuclear power plant alone can destroy a significant part of humanity and make large areas of the Earth lifeless.
Therefore, it is still better to use solar panels, wind turbines and other sources of green energy that do not have such possible dangerous consequences. Based on this, the plans of European countries to install solar panels on a mandatory basis for every new house are very timely. Including Europe will be able to get rid of gas and oil dependence on Russia and no longer be blackmailed by this aggressor country.

Naficopa

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Quote from: virasisog on June 17, 2022, 10:42:07 AM

Everytime there's a development in the technology, the old discoveries becomes cheaper and more affordable which is actually beneficial to average people. In our country, solar light panels were too expensive before and we couldn't even afford them but right now, our streets are filled with solar lights. It simply means that as time passes by, some technology-related stuff decreases its value due to its increasing supply and decreasing demand.

The idea is good. Since the big buildings consume a lots of energy. So it's a good idea to install solar panels for them so the local can get benefited.
In our region - there is so much shortage of electricity. So there is a need for an alternative solution. The sooner the better.

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Quote from: Cryptock on June 17, 2022, 07:12:08 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 16, 2022, 06:33:28 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on June 16, 2022, 05:12:45 AM

Take a look on an interesting article - Will solar panels get cheaper? (updated for 2022). It seems that situation with solar panel prices is doing opposite of normal market rules. Demand is growing (or will start to grow soon), but the price of solar panels is decreasing. Even we put aside recent financial problems, from the article we find that the price of 1 kW is increasing, number of of installed solar panels is increasing either, but the price of solar panel equipment reduced by almost 90% during last 10 years. Isnt this indicates that solar panels is not the best solution for expensive electricity?

As time progress technology will get more and more affordable, unlike the case with non-renewable commodities such as oil and gas. So there is no surprise here. Desalination used to cost as much as $3 per cubic meter two decades ago, but now it costs less than $0.50 per cubic meter. Similarly, 1 GB of mobile data used to be priced at $3 in India 10 years ago. Now it costs around $0.05. The case with solar panels is similar. As technological advance is made, the products will get cheaper. And in the future, we can expect the prices to further go down.

That is correct - with the passage of time with more use of solar panels and more coming in market, things will be much easier and cheaper for the average person too. That is very good example quotes. of the mobile data. I would want to mention here there was a time when even attending the phone costed a lot.

Everytime there's a development in the technology, the old discoveries becomes cheaper and more affordable which is actually beneficial to average people. In our country, solar light panels were too expensive before and we couldn't even afford them but right now, our streets are filled with solar lights. It simply means that as time passes by, some technology-related stuff decreases its value due to its increasing supply and decreasing demand.

Cryptock

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 16, 2022, 06:33:28 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on June 16, 2022, 05:12:45 AM

Take a look on an interesting article - Will solar panels get cheaper? (updated for 2022). It seems that situation with solar panel prices is doing opposite of normal market rules. Demand is growing (or will start to grow soon), but the price of solar panels is decreasing. Even we put aside recent financial problems, from the article we find that the price of 1 kW is increasing, number of of installed solar panels is increasing either, but the price of solar panel equipment reduced by almost 90% during last 10 years. Isnt this indicates that solar panels is not the best solution for expensive electricity?

As time progress technology will get more and more affordable, unlike the case with non-renewable commodities such as oil and gas. So there is no surprise here. Desalination used to cost as much as $3 per cubic meter two decades ago, but now it costs less than $0.50 per cubic meter. Similarly, 1 GB of mobile data used to be priced at $3 in India 10 years ago. Now it costs around $0.05. The case with solar panels is similar. As technological advance is made, the products will get cheaper. And in the future, we can expect the prices to further go down.

That is correct - with the passage of time with more use of solar panels and more coming in market, things will be much easier and cheaper for the average person too. That is very good example quotes. of the mobile data. I would want to mention here there was a time when even attending the phone costed a lot.

Sithara007

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Quote from: bakasabo on June 16, 2022, 05:12:45 AM

Take a look on an interesting article - Will solar panels get cheaper? (updated for 2022). It seems that situation with solar panel prices is doing opposite of normal market rules. Demand is growing (or will start to grow soon), but the price of solar panels is decreasing. Even we put aside recent financial problems, from the article we find that the price of 1 kW is increasing, number of of installed solar panels is increasing either, but the price of solar panel equipment reduced by almost 90% during last 10 years. Isnt this indicates that solar panels is not the best solution for expensive electricity?

As time progress technology will get more and more affordable, unlike the case with non-renewable commodities such as oil and gas. So there is no surprise here. Desalination used to cost as much as $3 per cubic meter two decades ago, but now it costs less than $0.50 per cubic meter. Similarly, 1 GB of mobile data used to be priced at $3 in India 10 years ago. Now it costs around $0.05. The case with solar panels is similar. As technological advance is made, the products will get cheaper. And in the future, we can expect the prices to further go down.

DrBeer

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Some general information about solar energy technologies:

1. Monocrystalline panels are more efficient, their physical size is smaller than that of polycrystalline counterparts of the same power.
2. Chinese researchers have developed a new solution to create an all-weather solar cell that runs on both sunlight and raindrops. They published the results of their work in the Journal Angewandte Chemie.
3. Most efficient panels so far: 44.4% efficient solar panels from Sharp, 37.9% efficient solar modules from Sharp, 32.6% efficient solar cells from the Spanish Solar Energy Research Institute (IES) and the university (UPM).
4. According to IRENA, over the past 10 years, the installed capacity of solar power plants in the world has grown more than 17 times - from 41.6 GW to 714 GW.
5. The average efficiency of household solar panels, today - up to 30%

bakasabo

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Take a look on an interesting article - Will solar panels get cheaper? (updated for 2022). It seems that situation with solar panel prices is doing opposite of normal market rules. Demand is growing (or will start to grow soon), but the price of solar panels is decreasing. Even we put aside recent financial problems, from the article we find that the price of 1 kW is increasing, number of of installed solar panels is increasing either, but the price of solar panel equipment reduced by almost 90% during last 10 years. Isnt this indicates that solar panels is not the best solution for expensive electricity?

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Quote from: YinShuiSiYuan on June 13, 2022, 08:37:49 AM

I was thinking of installing solar panel in my house because electricity is too expensive now and we don't get electricity for 24 hours. I live in country where 7 to 8 months we have sunny season and summers are too hot. But your posts just shocked me that panels are best for warm regions not for hot. Can you explain with some references?

I think its all about the number of sunny days as solar panels works best when exposed to sunlight directly, not through clouds so if you have plenty of those you are good to go.

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 15, 2022, 09:13:31 AM

I think it's fine for southern Europe that gets plenty sunshine all throughout the year, so just Spain, Greece and maybe parts of Italy. But what about the rest? The yield might not be as good in the areas with longer winters.

Dunno, I've seen in Germany (I am mostly visiting southern parts though) big percentage of houses covered with solar panels so I guess that it works good enough in those regions as well and I even heard that state is buying all the excess energy produced so during summer months can even make some extra money.

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Quote from: Cryptock on June 15, 2022, 06:39:47 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 14, 2022, 09:09:24 PM

Here in India, the government subsidizes installation of solar panels for private households. I am not sure about the exact amount, but somewhere around 50% of the cost is borne by the government (but like any other third world country, there is a lot of red tape and bureaucracy to overcome). If the EU is also thinking in similar lines, then I don't believe that there will be much opposition. Anyway, in the long run the residents will benefit out of it in the form of cheap electricity. But if they want the private individuals to bear 100% of the cost, then I am afraid that it's not going to work.

India is doing so much for the people. I wish our government do the same for us.
But the weather is so hot here and power outage is around 10/12 hours so we have decided to have less grocery from now on and will buy the solar panels.

The current government is doing a good job in diversifying the electricity output. Although they are encouraging renewable energy generation by installing more solar power plants and wind turbines, they are not ignoring the other sources (unlike what the EU has done). Nuclear energy is also being given a priority and a number of large nuclear plants are being constructed with the help from ROSATOM and Areva. New thermal power plants are coming up, as coal is abundant in India. And major hydro-electric powerplants are also being constructed.

No one here is against the Kyoto Protocol. But why the third world nations always need to take the burden of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, when their per capita output is around 1% of that from richer nations such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait?

Topic: Solar panels set to be mandatory on all new buildings under EU plan - page 3. (Read 1230 times)