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Maestro75

sr. member

Activity: 1960

Merit: 329

Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 01:27:12 PM

I don't know if you read the campaign rules but they have clearly mentioned

Quote

I reserve the right to remove anyone, for any reason from the campaign.
I reserve the right to change the rules or pay rates for new rounds.

So you getting removed without a logical reason won't surprise anybody. The pay could be argued and I believe you deserve to get paid for the valid posts you made. If you want to take it forward, you can maybe start a flag since it's sort of violating a direct contract with you? See how the community responds to that flag.

Removing a participant for whatever reason without revealing the reason to the participant is not justifiable. It sounds like what Hitler would do. No one should be a dictator because they are in a privilege position today. Tomorrow they may be at the bottom or receiving end. I see so many mangers today begging for slots in signature campaigns but they behaved like gods in the past when their campaigns were running.

Zwei

hero member

Activity: 510

Merit: 574

Too Little, Too Late.

I admit that I was in the wrong, I'm terribly sorry @Astargath, this wasn't intended to happen!
It's totally on me, I got the ending post count off by one & I miss counted the denied posts, which made you not qualified for payment.
I'll get you paid ASAP. sent

I try to manage the campaign the best I can, but it looks like I need to try harder. This is my first campaign and mistakes/problems were expected, and I welcome them so I can improve myself, I acknowledge that I lag experience, and being more transparent to why I remove someone, etc...
not that I'm giving excuses, but what happened has happened, and I take responsibility. I'll do my best to prevent things like this from happening in the future, and if anyone thinks that I'm doing something wrong, please don't hesitate to point it out.

Quote from: marlboroza on August 02, 2019, 03:52:48 PM

It is only 2 posts above your post:

to be honest, I didn't give much attention when I posted my reply as I copied/pasted it and closed the page!

Quote from: marlboroza on August 02, 2019, 03:52:48 PM

Btw, one post is missing in spreadsheet:

There are 45 posts (16 posts with 150+ characters, I believe I counted them correctly).

You are correct! I did recount the posts and sent him payment already.

marlboroza

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 2272

Quote from: Zwei on August 02, 2019, 02:01:49 PM

Thanks yahoo for bringing this to my attention.
@Astargath I just checked my PM history, and indeed you sent me one, I really don't know how I missed it, I'm terribly sorry.

You missed PM, astargath's "last week's" posts but how could you miss this post:

Quote from: Astargath on August 01, 2019, 11:17:47 AM

It says 0 eligible posts but I have made 15 in the gambling section, 'X - Posts in Politics & Society doesn't count' I understand those don't count but why am I not getting paid for the rest, you even kicked me from the campaign...

It is only 2 posts above your post:

Quote from: ?? on ??

The following positions are still open:

2x Legendary
2x Hero Member

Apply now!

Makes no sense.

Btw, one post is missing in spreadsheet:

There are 45 posts (16 posts with 150+ characters, I believe I counted them correctly).

suzanne5223

hero member

Activity: 2660

Merit: 651

Want top-notch marketing for your project, Hire me

Quote from: Astargath on August 02, 2019, 03:13:40 PM

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 03:10:25 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on August 02, 2019, 03:09:25 PM

I think we need more lawyers and more complicated lengthy contracts here on BTCT!!

You should call up game-protect... or Thule's wife. Roll Eyes

Damn, i should have contacted game-protect first, shit, he would have sued zwei and I would have got a 1m settlement.

It hasn't got to such state because Yahoo said he has already spoken to the guy on telegram and he currently online now which I believe he will respond to all your claim.
Mind you, this may somehow affect your account in participating in a campaign in the future cause you should have mentioned the manager name only with the exclusion of the company name.

Patatas

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1115

Providing AI/ChatGpt Services - PM!

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on August 02, 2019, 03:09:25 PM

I think we need more lawyers and more complicated lengthy or Thule's wife. Roll Eyes

Is she hot though? * Asking for a friend for future purposes.

Quote from: Astargath on August 02, 2019, 03:13:40 PM

Damn, i should have contacted game-protect first, shit, he would have sued zwei and I would have got a 1m settlement.

Sued? "Extorted" is the word maybe you're looking for? Huh

Game-Protect is the type of dude who does more lawyers than a civil court.

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 03:10:25 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on August 02, 2019, 03:09:25 PM

I think we need more lawyers and more complicated lengthy contracts here on BTCT!!

You should call up game-protect... or Thule's wife. Roll Eyes

Damn, i should have contacted game-protect first, shit, he would have sued zwei and I would have got a 1m settlement.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on August 02, 2019, 03:09:25 PM

I think we need more lawyers and more complicated lengthy contracts here on BTCT!!

You should call up game-protect... or Thule's wife. Roll Eyes

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1756

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 02:38:56 PM

Quote from: Welsh on August 02, 2019, 02:18:45 PM

I would agree with actmyname that blanket statements are annoying, and because of the campaigns managers position of power they generally don't give reasons why they have removed someone. Although, I would disagree with actmyname that specifying specific removal criteria would likely be abused, and loop holed as well as complaints from users who get removed from the campaign for any unforeseen circumstances.

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 02:34:44 PM

Supplemented with a sample list thereof perhaps. You can't expect them to list every possible scenario. I think inability to fire someone from a campaign due to some technicality in stated rules would be a much bigger problem than firing someone for no reason.

I agree, and that was something I was considering. The best thing would to adopt a communal protocol and to adjust it to the scope of all possible activity, or as large a space thereof as possible.

I do not want loopholes, therefore a clause similar to this may suffice:

You may also be given a warning of removal from the campaign for an alternative reason not found in the aforementioned rules, to which a rationale and subsequent discussion thereof will be given. If a consensus/majority has reasonably deemed the reason sufficient for a removal then it will be enacted immediately. A period of one campaign round will be reserved for the discussion in the Reputation section and a private message will be sent to the participant regarding such. The payment will proceed as standard for the campaign and further participation thereof will be decided by the thread.

How's that? Sound fair?

I think we need more lawyers and more complicated lengthy contracts here on BTCT!!

Little Mouse

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 2100

Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 02:38:56 PM

You may also be given a warning of removal from the campaign for an alternative reason not found in the aforementioned rules, to which a rationale and subsequent discussion thereof will be given.

This is what Hhampuz practice, may be. I have seen him to write some comments in the spreadsheet of the campaign. However, I can't remember if someone got kicked out but some warning was there in the spreadsheet.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 02:38:56 PM

How's that? Sound fair?

I don't know, still sounds like some UAW contract

I've never held a job that I couldn't get fired from or quit at a moment's notice so I don't really understand the appeal. If someone doesn't want me working for them, forcing the issue is not going to help and if I'm not entirely horrible at what I do - I can get another job. But some sort of dispute resolution process could be useful, I can agree with that. Mistakes and misunderstandings do happen.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: Welsh on August 02, 2019, 02:18:45 PM

I would agree with actmyname that blanket statements are annoying, and because of the campaigns managers position of power they generally don't give reasons why they have removed someone. Although, I would disagree with actmyname that specifying specific removal criteria would likely be abused, and loop holed as well as complaints from users who get removed from the campaign for any unforeseen circumstances.

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 02:34:44 PM

Supplemented with a sample list thereof perhaps. You can't expect them to list every possible scenario. I think inability to fire someone from a campaign due to some technicality in stated rules would be a much bigger problem than firing someone for no reason.

I agree, and that was something I was considering. The best thing would to adopt a communal protocol and to adjust it to the scope of all possible activity, or as large a space thereof as possible.

I do not want loopholes, therefore a clause similar to this may suffice:

You may also be given a warning of removal from the campaign for an alternative reason not found in the aforementioned rules, to which a rationale and subsequent discussion thereof will be given. If a consensus/majority has reasonably deemed the reason sufficient for a removal then it will be enacted immediately. A period of one campaign round will be reserved for the discussion in the Reputation section and a private message will be sent to the participant regarding such. The payment will proceed as standard for the campaign and further participation thereof will be decided by the thread.

How's that? Sound fair?

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:47:44 PM

"for any reason" could well be changed to fit the variety of criteria that would make any reasonable person kick a participant.

Supplemented with a sample list thereof perhaps. You can't expect them to list every possible scenario. I think inability to fire someone from a campaign due to some technicality in stated rules would be a much bigger problem than firing someone for no reason.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 01:41:49 PM

I think campaign managers should be able remove anyone for any reason (at-will employment). It's ultimately their reputation at stake if they start abusing that, e.g. don't provide a sensible explanation. But refusing payment for a service that has already been completed is a different - and very much scammy - story.

Speaking generally here as this case seems to be in the process of being addressed. It should be in the campaigns manager best interest to publicly state why a user has been removed, unless its obvious. I personally, would want to keep a log, and evidence of why a user was removed for transparency. I would agree with actmyname that blanket statements are annoying, and because of the campaigns managers position of power they generally don't give reasons why they have removed someone. Although, I would disagree with actmyname that specifying specific removal criteria would likely be abused, and loop holed as well as complaints from users who get removed from the campaign for any unforeseen circumstances.

I'm glad Zwei will be looking into the issues though.

Zwei

hero member

Activity: 510

Merit: 574

Too Little, Too Late.

Thanks yahoo for bringing this to my attention.
@Astargath I just checked my PM history, and indeed you sent me one, I really don't know how I missed it, I'm terribly sorry.
I promise everyone that I would look it to this and make things right.

yahoo62278

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 4554

Contact @yahoo62278 on telegram for marketing

Quote from: Astargath on August 02, 2019, 01:47:03 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 01:41:49 PM

Quote from: Findingnemo on August 02, 2019, 01:25:18 PM

non constructive or for not in proper english.

I can assure you there is no problem with Astargath's English and I find it hard to believe that the posts could have been deemed not constructive enough seeing the garbage some other members of that campaign are posting.

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM

Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous.

I think campaign managers should be able remove anyone for any reason (at-will employment). It's ultimately their reputation at stake if they start abusing that, e.g. don't provide a sensible explanation. But refusing payment for a service that has already been completed is a different - and very much scammy - story.

He might have thought all my posts were in P&S section but I did send him a pm about the situation and he didn't even answer. I'm also fine with the rule of removing anyone for any reason but I'm also fairly sure I was only removed because he thought I didn't meet the min requirements.

If he is doing his job correctly, then there should be no confusion as to whether you had enough posts outside the non qualifying boards.

Managers should manually be looking at users posts to avoid any confusion.

I did pm Zwei on telegram and ask him to look at this thread.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 01:41:49 PM

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM

Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous.

I think campaign managers should be able remove anyone for any reason. It's ultimately their reputation at stake if they start abusing that (e.g. don't provide a sensible explanation). But refusing payment is a different (and very much scammy) story.

An all-encompassing remark prior to a removal shows foresight. A rationale brought forth after the fact only shows creativity.

"for any reason" could well be changed to fit the variety of criteria that would make any reasonable person kick a participant.

The following are some (but not all) that I believe would fit that:

Getting banned, regardless of duration
Modifying the signature
Spamming (which can be further broken down)
Getting negative trust (debatable)
Abusing merit
Repeatedly breaking forum rules
Burst-posting
Potential account hack (paused payment would be appropriate)

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: suchmoon on August 02, 2019, 01:41:49 PM

Quote from: Findingnemo on August 02, 2019, 01:25:18 PM

non constructive or for not in proper english.

I can assure you there is no problem with Astargath's English and I find it hard to believe that the posts could have been deemed not constructive enough seeing the garbage some other members of that campaign are posting.

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM

Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous.

I think campaign managers should be able remove anyone for any reason (at-will employment). It's ultimately their reputation at stake if they start abusing that, e.g. don't provide a sensible explanation. But refusing payment for a service that has already been completed is a different - and very much scammy - story.

He might have thought all my posts were in P&S section but I did send him a pm about the situation and he didn't even answer. I'm also fine with the rule of removing anyone for any reason but I'm also fairly sure I was only removed because he thought I didn't meet the min requirements.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Findingnemo on August 02, 2019, 01:25:18 PM

non constructive or for not in proper english.

I can assure you there is no problem with Astargath's English and I find it hard to believe that the posts could have been deemed not constructive enough seeing the garbage some other members of that campaign are posting.

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM

Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous.

I think campaign managers should be able remove anyone for any reason (at-will employment). It's ultimately their reputation at stake if they start abusing that, e.g. don't provide a sensible explanation. But refusing payment for a service that has already been completed is a different - and very much scammy - story.

Patatas

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1115

Providing AI/ChatGpt Services - PM!

Quote from: actmyname on August 02, 2019, 01:29:53 PM

Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 01:27:12 PM

I don't know if you read the campaign rules but they have clearly mentioned

Quote

I reserve the right to remove anyone, for any reason from the campaign.
I reserve the right to change the rules or pay rates for new rounds.

So you getting removed without a logical reason won't surprise anybody.

See, I don't like that. Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous. It seems foolish to justify any unconscientious act by citing something absurd in the ToS/rules. It's the same thing with casinos writing in their ToS something vague about balance seizure or KYC checks.

Rigor above all.

I concur but most of the counter-arguments are supported by what you called vague statements. It would still make sense in the case of Casinos as they have to cite conditions as such "US players not allowed" or "Multi-accounts get banned with no pay" but here it's literally a post without any actual meaning to it. Let's hope for the manager to respond and not use those rules in defense.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: Patatas on August 02, 2019, 01:27:12 PM

I don't know if you read the campaign rules but they have clearly mentioned

Quote

I reserve the right to remove anyone, for any reason from the campaign.
I reserve the right to change the rules or pay rates for new rounds.

So you getting removed without a logical reason won't surprise anybody.

See, I don't like that. Blanket removal statements are absolutely ridiculous. It seems foolish to justify any unconscientious act by citing something absurd in the ToS/rules. It's the same thing with casinos writing in their ToS something vague about balance seizure or KYC checks.

Rigor above all.

Topic: Solved. (Read 412 times)