Topic: (SOLVED) BTC365.com SCAM me 20Mbtc (Read 1048 times)

yes.. i hope that its wony heppend again to any other user

i Withdraw my support as asked.

hello

i can aprrove that the reset of my money withdraw by me and i got it to my wallet.

I want to say a big thank you to all the forum members. Without you I would not have been able to get my money back.

Quick update.
I sent them all the requested documents and the call zoom they ask was done today.

Let’s see what will be next

I’m not ok with that but I want my money..

Hello

Support Contact me.

They requested a number of documents in addition to making a zoom call. The call was scheduled to be today. I will update after the call.

Thanks, it's important (for other cases) to use Flags according to the Trust Flags guidelines.

Current Flag Supporters: panjul07, examplens, Slow death, sheenshane, dkbit98, icopress, Lordshiva, Maasdamer, Blossom15, LEVSKI7, kontrakwel, rokuen: please consider withdrawing your Support for this Flag.

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I've removed my negative feedback and added new neutral feedback:
And this one remains:

Glad to hear that.

Since the accusation has been resolved so any users still supporting the flags should delete their votes. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2835

@oz.kashi you need to be careful next time before using any sites, make sure you choose the reputed one.

To be clear: did you receive the remaining 20 mBTC from btc365.com?
If that's the case, you should Withdraw your Support for this Flag.

Any update about the zoom call?

I guess there are no other way left except this. They need to be confirmed that next time the same user will not come to them again and oz.kashi needs his money.

Or maybe they are learning from their mistakes and trying to correct things as they are moving. Reputation is something that takes years to build. For example: BestChange.

BTC365 updated terms are totally ridiculous but I guess they have the right to make up whatever rules they want, problem is they won't have any customers left to play.
Imagine if you can arrest someone and take all his money without any trial, investigation or evidence, just because you SUSPECT he is guilty for some crime...  

https://archive.ph/pfjgJ

The Terms are really unfair for users:
I'd never send money to a place that reserves the right to confiscate funds based on nothing more than a hunch.

I remembered I've search "arbitrage" on your terms, but I can't find it. After this accusation comes up you now add it


Adding a new rule when the accusation is still active isn't correct IMO. This show you not really wanted to release the funds to him, instead you complicate him with your KYC rules. Not to say you'll add new ponzi rule to enable withdrawal....

Are you okay with this? So far, they look like scammers. Who knows what they'll do with your documents!
I wouldn't send them anything.

It also looks like the only reason they're willing to resolve this is because of the reputation damage on Bitcointalk, and not because it's the right thing to do.

Hi @oz.kashi, i believe customer service have reached out correct ? We will revert and unfreeze the balance once the process has been verified and completed. Thanks for your corporation.

The missing part here is that in your last post, it sounded like from your side there were no evidence to accuse oz.kashi. It was like your provider told you to confiscate the accuser's fund, and you just followed what they said.

When I and some other users were dealing with neymarjr12 case, SB provided us data to analyze. And their decision was backed by data.

Anyway, I see there are intention of resolving the case and even intentions to go further like donating some matched sum to charity. I am still not supporting the flag, giving the time to rearrange your thought process and find a better solution. It's good to see that you are taking suggestions from community and learning.

Not only oz.kashi but also the other suspected accounts that you think were involving with arbitrage betting. Do KYC for all the suspected accounts so that next time the same ID do not give you hard time.

Which KYC did you require from ozkashi? Phone number? ID verification? Utility


You requiring any of those would contradict what you told me.

I've explained this already in my previous posts:
If foul play is proven, donating funds to charity would be better than keeping it for yourself. You didn't prove anything.

Dear bitcointalk community, we stand by our game providers final verdict on compliance actions. The integrity of our compliance decision out weights the sum of funds involved for this matter.
We also have reached a mutual agreement with out sports vendor BTi that we will release the involved funds (20 mBTC) should ozkashi provide the required KYC from our side. Please email to [email protected] with the subject header ozkashi - KYC request.

@oz.kashi, seeking your permission to share your bet history and transactions done on BTC365.com via this forum thread

@loyceV , we took a leaf out from your book where you suggested donating the involved funds to charity to avoid accusation of confiscating funds for our own benefits. Perhaps you can clarify why you no longer support this idea

From what btc365partners is saying here, they admit their Terms were insufficient. It's totally fine to adjust the Terms now, but they should honor their obligations from before the change too. Note that I didn't read the updated Terms, as it's irrelevant for this case, but I can't imagine any serious casino having Terms that give them the right to take a user's funds without even seeing the evidence.

I feel sorry for you bro i know how frustating it is when they reply you like with stupid reasons and dont give you your money.
I am totally with you and i am supporting you on this.

It costs me a lot to believe that your site has people who think that way, money from someone who won by merit is not to be donated without permission from the winner, what you are doing is absurd.


 

you are practically saying that from now on whoever uses your site and wins you will take the customer's money and will donate to charity, this is what you learned from this problem that you created yourself


 


syndicates?

informed punters?

what are you talking about? you retained the owner's fund using nonsensical argument that he was involved in abnormal activities

That means that you don't have any proof that anything was against your official rules, like it wasn't because there was no mention of word arbitrage there.

Is this a joke or are you serious?
You can donate to charity anytime, but you need to take your customers seriously and you can't confiscate other people coins like this.

I am supporting the flag also.

Thank you for posting your final "resolution" in which you confirm you have no evidence whatsoever for taking this oz.kashi's money. That's all I needed to know, so Flag supported! I call for other DT-members to do the same after reviewing this case.
This is why:

Feedback added:

I don't think that's fair solution for the gambler and what does Bitcointalk to do with the 20 mBTC? this is case both of you and @oz.kashi not you and Bitcointalk.

The thing is @oz.kashi can provide his proof even in screenshot, but you failed to provide the proof of your casino provider detection algorithms. IMO you're still not a professional casino, but much rather an intermediary since you doesn't have full control over your casino.

Let's say another gambler made accusation against your casino with similar case, we will see a same excuse like this, no?

Dear bitcointalk community, after discussing with our Sportsbook provider BTi, we were unable to get their cooperation to disclose their detection algorithms, even to just a select few reputable members of the community.
We decided on an alternative which is to donate the full sum involved (20 mBTC) to a charity of the community's choosing. In addition, BTC365 will match this donation (another 20 MBTC) as a gesture of goodwill and gratitude. We put it to the community to come forward with up to two charity organizations to receive the donations.

We have learned much from this incident and have patched our Customer Support process and Terms and Condition accordingly. BTC365 is committed to providing the best betting experience to our  players. We seek the community's understanding that we are unable to do business with syndicates, informed punters, or any party that enjoys an unfair edge over our normal customers.

@LoyceV we are holding the 20 mBTC. BTi is unable to disclose their detection algorithms, even in the presence of an NDA.

Its a pitty that all these new bookmakers are doing shady business and do not pay.
When does that stop?

Any reason you ignore my questions?

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These conditions have no legal value. You must obtain a license from a country in the EU. So users will be able to file complaints. After you have been convicted several times they will take your license 

Hi Bitcointalk, we have taken the feedback from some senior reputable members on the forum. We will be escalating the case to BTi for willingness to releasing information to a selected group of users. Should that be approved, we will then seek the community for a council to arbitrate. In the event that this is not possible, we will propose an alternative solution.

We have learnt much from this experience and will be updating our Terms & Conditions and Bet Limits to be more complete.

So once they limited your account you did not place any bet and the 20 mBTC was there which was unused.

The 2nd deposit was before the first withdrawal or in between the first and 2nd withdrawal or after the 2nd withdrawal?
Did you make any bet anything after the 2nd withdrawal and the amounts includ the 20mBTC you left, or it was excluding the 20mBTC?

Here sir [SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) [dispute settled] by neymarjr12

How much did you deposit?
How much did you win?
How much did you able to withdraw in total?
You withdrew twice, how many bets you placed between the first and second withdrawal?
The remaining 20mBTC, is it including the additional unsettle or void bets?

@btc365partners is this possible to remove the suspension of oz.kashi's account but limit everything so that he can not enter any data like placing any bet or withdrawing anything or even converting anything to another currency. I mean disable any kind of input from oz.kashi's side on the account. Or can you give us the answers of the above questions I asked with evidences. Please take note that screenshots are not good evidences. I may suggest doing a screencast while refreshing the page or anything else that will be more convincing to support your answer. If this is too much to expose in public, then:
1) Either find a way to disable the suspension of oz.kashi's account so that he can give us the answers with convincing evidences or
2) Chose few trusted users from this conversation, for example: LoyceV, me, dkbit98 etc. Please take their permission before you share the private information, as from my part you are more than welcome. If they give you permission, then share us the information in forum PM. Send the same PM at once to all of us.

Easier will be to lift the suspension of oz.kashi's and let him do this.

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Can someone bring me the dispute thread that was against sportsbet.io from a user called neymar20 or neymar30 (sorry, I do not remember the full username)? Thanks

I thought of another question for btc365partners: who has the 20 mBTC now? Is it you, who couldn't even verify BTi's claim, or is it BTi, who doesn't want to provide any evidence?

This is how you can make sure you can't ever be accused of confiscating funds for your own benefit:

Is this link also mentioned anywhere on your own site? I couldn't find it (but didn't want to create an account).

I hope you understand that without providing a single shred of evidence, this makes you look very bad.

I don't want to read many pages of rules, but luckily bti-io.gitlab.io has a Search field. I tried the following keywords:
Results for all keywords: "No results found".

Neither your Terms nor BTi's Betting Rules mention anything about arbitrage betting.

So to summarize: you took 20 mBTC from a user because of an unproven accusation of something that isn't forbidden by any of the rules.

I'm afraid that's not true. You will find players who have won and withdrawn successfully. The only difference being they weren't flagged by either our or vendor compliance.

Hi LoyceV, it is still necessary for us to confirm a player’s username as he has not revealed it in any of his conversations. We will not assume the usage of forums username to be the same as there is a possibility of discrepancy.

Please find our BTi Sportsbook Rules here https://bti-io.gitlab.io/betting-rules/en/

Our focus on this case is not the amount, but on confirming that the user hasn’t been wrongly frozen. The reason for the account being frozen is due to username “ozkashi” has been detected as arbitrage / movement betting by our compliance team from our Sportsbook vendor BTi. In this case, BTi is insistent on their compliance guidance, even after we have spoken to them. Hope you understand that we must act on abnormal or malicious activities in order to provide the best service and bonuses to ordinary members. Beyond impacting the promotions we can run, the dividend pool that is available to every member also gets penalized as wins reduce dividends. While there will always be winners (as there should be), all members should play on the same edge and not enjoy an advantage over others, which happens in the case of arbitrage or contra betting.
Therefore, arbitrage betting is treated as a fraudulent activity, which leads to our course of action. Please do refer to 10.1 in our Terms and Conditions https://www.btc365.com/help/terms

For the point of having EV + Promotions, would you mean a promotion that is positive EV to the player? If yes, we do have such promotions. Please refer to our promotion "Get 50 - 150 Free Spins! Simply make a deposit! " However, the number may change based off a variety of factors (Total wagering, Bonuses claimed) such as the formula you use to calculate EV.

What's your SOP? What's your CS? Readers can guess, but shouldn't have to if you're more clear.

Your terms don't even mention arbitrage betting. It shows this:
Can you point me to where to find the Sportsbook Rules?

This is how it looks to me: A user claims you scammed him for 20 mBTC, you don't dispute the amount, and instead hide behind a third party who can't tell you the reason either.

This statement means nothing to this case.

I hope you find support for the flag and these scammer will be gone soon.

No words for this kind of behaviour. Just disgusting!

Hi oz.kashi, our SOP is always to confirm the username of the member. You'll have experienced this in our CS as well, even though we should know your username given you are logged in. As you took some time to respond to us, probably due to timezone, we inferred your username from your bitcointalk user, and also your complaint time.

As mentioned, we froze your account on guidance of the sportsbook vendor you played on, BTi. BTi has gotten back to us; they flagged your account as you were detected as a sports arbitrager / movement better in a small league (you only bet on Israel leagues). While BTi won't share with us their exact rule set or algorithm used to classify you, they are one of the better sportsbooks we've seen and hosted.

Hope this clarifies the issue.

Hi oz.kashi and bitcointalk community,

We would like to address the accusation raised by fellow forum member oz.kashi on the 11th of September 2021. The scam accusation thread can be found here (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/solved-btc365com-scam-me-20mbtc-5359552).

Since oz.kashi only provided cropped screenshots, we are forced to infer his account name and follow up with our sportsbook provider. @Oz.kashi, if you could confirm your account name, that would be appreciated. Meanwhile, we invite the forum members to consider the following information:

1) Firstly; some context setting: all betting operators dissuade or unwelcome abnormal or malicious activity to varying levels. This goes beyond protecting profits of the operator but is also necessary to maintain an attractive level of promotions and rebates for normal customers. For example; rebates are designed to be attractive for ordinary customers, and activities that specifically seek to farm rebates harm good customers by forcing operators to rethink or reduce rebates. (This is just an example while we wait for confirmation both regarding account name and the flag)

2) Cross referencing the time of oz.kashi’s case (since we don’t have his username), it is highly likely that he/she/they were flagged by our secondary sportsbook vendor. Our various game vendors are experts in compliance in their own domain, and we generally defer to their flags. Of course, the final decision to execute a flag rests with BTC365, and if we have wrongly frozen your account, we must accept full responsibility.

3) While waiting for username confirmation and further information, we would like to highlight some inconsistencies with your accusation.  

3b) On our thread you claim "they win", while on the accusation thread you mention "you won". What exactly happened? Perhaps you can clarify this inconsistency.

3c) In the accusation thread, you also mentioned that you managed a successful withdrawal (that's great!) Without your username, we can only use our best guess, but cross referencing the time and product we inferred, your successful withdrawal is quite abit larger than the 20 mBTC you are accusing us of scamming. That begs the question: if we are indeed out to scam you, why would we let you withdraw in the first place?






To our fellow forum members, please note that the information in (3) is contained within our accuser’s posts alone and is information provided by oz.kashi. I have escalated this case to the brand managers, and we will follow up with your case once we have additional information from you or the book vendor.

Our entire team at BTC365 is committed to providing a safe and fair gaming experience for all our members. Please contact us if you need assistance!

My opinion is that even if they have the right to cancel your account at any time, they should still allow you to withdraw your coins or give you full explanation and not just smiles in support chat.

They did reply in their topic today said something about farming rebates, but I didn't saw any clear explanation, and it looks like they are still investigating this case.

The admin logs in today still no response I have a second thought of supporting the flag until they address the issue, I don't want to put OP in the limelight he had a tag that says  I want to make sure that the accusation is valid this time.

I've reminded them in their topic. Ignoring scam accusations is not a good sign, and won't make it go away on Bitcointalk.

The BTC365.com representative was online but they didn't take any action with this accusation, it's weird. Based on your screenshot indeed they doesn't explain what's the rules you broke and just blocked your account.

I've tagged the account and will wait their explanation, if they keep refusing I would support the flag soon.

We also need to listen what btc365partners has to say about this issue, and I see that he was last online on September 10th.
I am not going to support this flag until I see more explanation and full contest of OP conversation, maybe it would help if we could see screenshots of those bets.
After reading their terms I found that you agreed for this when you signed up for your account there:
https://www.btc365.com/help/terms

I was asked to respond here.
First: it helps your case if you embed all evidence into your post, instead of making me check several external images.

The screenshots raise some questions:
Who is "their game provider" and what "abnormal activities" did they detect?
Why is BET365 hiding behind their game provider, and why do they "try to appeal" instead of taking a decision? Does that mean they have no control over the games they offer? If so: why do they make it the user's problem?
Who are they trying to convince when they mention "BET365 Certified and regulated by credible gaming bodies"? Why do they add the word "credible" instead of their names? This sounds like the typical mumbo jumbo, and isn't very convincing.

I can't Support a type 3 Flag without evidence that I can verify. I can't verify screenshots.

They had to explain the reasons to retain your money. Refusing to do so arguing unspecified motives looks like a scam. It is strange that they allowed you to withdraw money. You already posted on their thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57919251 dont forget to call their attention to this one. They have some explaining to do. I might support your flag if they dont explain or I dont like the justification.

Before you make any comment pls read this pls.


Scammers Profile Link:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/btc365partners-3369866

Reference Link:
https://www.btc365.com/

Amount Scammed: 20 mBTC

Payment Method: Bitcoins

Pls support flag I opend : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2835

*I see that one more user have the same problem with them!

What happened:

I opened an account on 20.8.21. The number of bets I  placed won and I asked to withdraw money and the site made the withdrawal. I then placrd number of additional bets and noticed that the maximum bet in all games changed to a maximum of 0-1 Mbtc.
I went up in front of the chat in order to understand why my maximum bet had changed (it should be noted that before the maximum amount was around 20mbtc) in the chat I was asked to wait for an answer by email from more senior representatives and offered me to continue betting under another category of sports in site.


An hour later I received the following email: https://imgur.com/a/YgA6Nyj

I tried to login to my account and it was blocked. I went up again in front of the chat in order to understand why they decided to close the account and how I get the balance of money I have left in the account (20mtc)
The response I received from the chat was that the site decided to close my account permanently due to " abnormal activites " and the rest balance of the money could not be withdrawn. I asked to understand what the reason was and to get some evidence of the things I am accused of but the response continued to be that the account was closed permanently and I cant get the rest of my money.

this is some of email + chat :

https://imgur.com/a/9yKUFDk

https://imgur.com/a/LNh0n4c

https://imgur.com/a/K0pe4O4

I warn you against using the site because such a thing can only happen to you because your account has wining!

Please you all who can help me with the problem I will be very grateful to him.