Some Bitcoin owners do not own Bitcoin. - page 2.

buwaytress

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Quote from: webtricks on November 23, 2017, 03:07:15 AM

Having private keys or not don't imapct the supply of Bitcoins. In case of web wallets and exchanges, users no doubt only have representative value of bitcoin in their wallet and not real coins but those values aren't manipulative and web wallets or exchanges do have those Bitcoins in their cold or hot storage.

snip~

Again same thing, exchanges do have real Bitcoins with them equivalent to what users have on their representative wallets. There is constant influx/outflux on exchanges which ensures there is symmetrical cash (Bitcoin) flow on system. Which ensures in the case all users withdrawing Bitcoins, exchanges have enough to pay them all.

You've missed the point, which still stands. A lot of people who think they own Bitcoin actually don't at all. Until only you own the private keys to your wallet, you have absolutely no control over what happens to your coins, and no way of ever verifying if the exchange actually has your coins.

Sure, some exchanges can prove some of their actual Bitcoin balances, but in general most cannot reliably prove solvency. You must have not heard of all the problems with major exchanges to believe they have the system fixed.

And the point is, even if they do, you still have to trust that they will honour your Bitcoin withdrawals.

I did mention this yesterday... why I feel mass use and mass adoption is falsely expanded by a lot of newcomers who actually don't own nor use Bitcoin.

Hamphser

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Quote from: carriebee on November 01, 2017, 06:47:48 PM

Quote from: djgtr on November 01, 2017, 06:38:36 PM

Quote from: _Dawid_ on November 01, 2017, 05:23:23 PM

Yeah that is right you can bet on the price without having a coin but it looks like you would have... The main different here is that you will be never able to spend that "coin" for anything. You can only bet with CFD on market. To be honest it is nothing else what traders are doing currently with bitcoin. As you said with keys. But here is a little different that bitcoin's traders are able to spend their coins for any goods any time. The CFD concrat won't give you this chance. By the way the CFSs contracts seems to be interesing idea.

well i believe some bitcoin owners didnt own because they invest it for good and theres nothing left behind on thier wallet .they are really smart and they are really experience person they know they can gain on investing and trqding with bitcoin that is why they use all thier btc or maybe they convert it inyo fiat then save.

Yes exactly, some of bitcoin owners dont own bitcoin probably because they already sold their own. Others early adapters already sold their own bitcoin because of the currently price is very expensive. And, most already convert into fiat using it emergency purposes or use it in daily expenses.

This is correct. We do have the freedom on how we gonna use our bitcoin and its not really necessary for us to store it specially when we are in need of money specially on emergencies or any possible plans in your mind.
Some do actively sell it once they do attain it and thats what happening on my side which i do sell them off once i do earn them.I dont plan for future savings as long i do earn money.Dont hate me since i do need money for daily basis and its not necessary for me to follow what others doing as of now.

webtricks

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Quote from: razzor85 on November 01, 2017, 03:21:04 PM

Hi,

I have the feeling that the Bitcoin price of 6600$ is much too less. I think the price should be more than 100,000$.
Everybody speaks about Bitcoin, but there are only 16 million of coins.

Limited supply is the backbone of increasing Bitcoin price. You can't say that because of limited supply, everyone can't own Bitcoin and that's why price is less. Read about demand-supply law and you will be more clear.

Quote

And in my opinion, there are a huge number of people they own bitcoin.

So, I think that many people own "Bitcoins without having the private key".

Do we have already virtual coins in the market outside of the blockchain? Are the Bangsters back?

Was Bitcoin not created because of this?

Having private keys or not don't imapct the supply of Bitcoins. In case of web wallets and exchanges, users no doubt only have representative value of bitcoin in their wallet and not real coins but those values aren't manipulative and web wallets or exchanges do have those Bitcoins in their cold or hot storage.

Quote

Now we have already CFD contracts: You can bet on the price of bitcoin without having the coin.

CMD or Futures market having nothing to do with Bitcoin and its price.

Quote

You have coinbase, I am not sure but you cannot export the private key. Is this correct?

Correct.

Quote

Many people have bitcoins on the exchanger, but they don't have the private key. Have all the exchanger really the bitcoins they trade.
Or have they only enough bitcoins for some people to transfer to a bitcoin address. But what would happen if all exchanger users transfer the
Bitcoins to a Bitcoin address. Have we then again, the message the system is at the moment not available? Grin

Again same thing, exchanges do have real Bitcoins with them equivalent to what users have on their representative wallets. There is constant influx/outflux on exchanges which ensures there is symmetrical cash (Bitcoin) flow on system. Which ensures in the case all users withdrawing Bitcoins, exchanges have enough to pay them all.

Jeremiesaranza

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Exactly yes..because some owner sell their own Bitcoin and nothing left in their wallet..they sell it during the value of Bitcoin increases

carriebee

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Quote from: djgtr on November 01, 2017, 06:38:36 PM

Quote from: _Dawid_ on November 01, 2017, 05:23:23 PM

Yeah that is right you can bet on the price without having a coin but it looks like you would have... The main different here is that you will be never able to spend that "coin" for anything. You can only bet with CFD on market. To be honest it is nothing else what traders are doing currently with bitcoin. As you said with keys. But here is a little different that bitcoin's traders are able to spend their coins for any goods any time. The CFD concrat won't give you this chance. By the way the CFSs contracts seems to be interesing idea.

well i believe some bitcoin owners didnt own because they invest it for good and theres nothing left behind on thier wallet .they are really smart and they are really experience person they know they can gain on investing and trqding with bitcoin that is why they use all thier btc or maybe they convert it inyo fiat then save.

Yes exactly, some of bitcoin owners dont own bitcoin probably because they already sold their own. Others early adapters already sold their own bitcoin because of the currently price is very expensive. And, most already convert into fiat using it emergency purposes or use it in daily expenses.

djgtr

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Quote from: _Dawid_ on November 01, 2017, 05:23:23 PM

Yeah that is right you can bet on the price without having a coin but it looks like you would have... The main different here is that you will be never able to spend that "coin" for anything. You can only bet with CFD on market. To be honest it is nothing else what traders are doing currently with bitcoin. As you said with keys. But here is a little different that bitcoin's traders are able to spend their coins for any goods any time. The CFD concrat won't give you this chance. By the way the CFSs contracts seems to be interesing idea.

well i believe some bitcoin owners didnt own because they invest it for good and theres nothing left behind on thier wallet .they are really smart and they are really experience person they know they can gain on investing and trqding with bitcoin that is why they use all thier btc or maybe they convert it inyo fiat then save.

_Dawid_

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Yeah that is right you can bet on the price without having a coin but it looks like you would have... The main different here is that you will be never able to spend that "coin" for anything. You can only bet with CFD on market. To be honest it is nothing else what traders are doing currently with bitcoin. As you said with keys. But here is a little different that bitcoin's traders are able to spend their coins for any goods any time. The CFD concrat won't give you this chance. By the way the CFSs contracts seems to be interesing idea.

Silberman

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Quote from: razzor85 on November 01, 2017, 03:21:04 PM

Hi,

I have the feeling that the Bitcoin price of 6600$ is much too less. I think the price should be more than 100,000$.
Everybody speaks about Bitcoin, but there are only 16 million of coins.

And in my opinion, there are a huge number of people they own bitcoin.

So, I think that many people own "Bitcoins without having the private key".

Do we have already virtual coins in the market outside of the blockchain? Are the Bangsters back?

Was Bitcoin not created because of this?

Now we have already CFD contracts: You can bet on the price of bitcoin without having the coin.
You have coinbase, I am not sure but you cannot export the private key. Is this correct?

Many people have bitcoins on the exchanger, but they don't have the private key. Have all the exchanger really the bitcoins they trade.
Or have they only enough bitcoins for some people to transfer to a bitcoin address. But what would happen if all exchanger users transfer the
Bitcoins to a Bitcoin address. Have we then again, the message the system is at the moment not available? Grin

I have many questions, but what do you think?

You are covering lots of ground but lets try, those people that have their money at an exchange and do not have possession of their private keys are in a situation no different than a person holding his funds in the bank, so in a way you are correct, even if they are the owners of that bitcoin since they are not the sole possessors of their private keys then they do not own bitcoin, and second the forks only create altcoins not bitcoins so no banker can print bitcoin at will even if that is what they want.

razzor85

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Hi,

I have the feeling that the Bitcoin price of 6600$ is much too less. I think the price should be more than 100,000$.
Everybody speaks about Bitcoin, but there are only 16 million of coins.

And in my opinion, there are a huge number of people they own bitcoin.

So, I think that many people own "Bitcoins without having the private key".

Do we have already virtual coins in the market outside of the blockchain? Are the Bangsters back?

Was Bitcoin not created because of this?

Now we have already CFD contracts: You can bet on the price of bitcoin without having the coin.
You have coinbase, I am not sure but you cannot export the private key. Is this correct?

Many people have bitcoins on the exchanger, but they don't have the private key. Have all the exchanger really the bitcoins they trade.
Or have they only enough bitcoins for some people to transfer to a bitcoin address. But what would happen if all exchanger users transfer the
Bitcoins to a Bitcoin address. Have we then again, the message the system is at the moment not available? Grin

I have many questions, but what do you think?

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