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Topic: Some guy threatens ETC (Ethereum Classic) with a 51% attack - page 3. (Read 3348 times)

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Towards the end kushti talks about releasing a test chain and tools to attack it with, as well as another paper with some mitigation strategies, but afaics none of those were ever released. I don't think that thread disproves anything, but OK, carry on staking.

jonald_fyookball says he doesn't have the time and energy to digest Kushti's research paper. He's honest about it, he didn't read it.

Towards the end and towards the beginning Kushti's conclusion is the same: long-range attack is not possible.
Short-range is theoretically possible with 10% of all coins for 20 blocks - 20 minutes for full confirmation of the transaction is recommended. Bitcoin recommends 6 confirmations (60 minutes) to protect against short-range attacks. But OK, carry on FUD'ing.

Not trying to drag thread off topic, but where is the experimental blockchain and attack tools that were supposed to be released to demonstrate this practice. Where is the formalized paper?

Another problem is that many (all?) PoS coins suffer from poor distribution, so it's possible one entity owns more than 10% of all coins. Didn't Bter hacker steal like 10% of all NXT? Satoshi might own 10% of all Bitcoin but that doesn't mean he can attack the chain with a single i7 cpu.

As an aside, is the word 'FUD' the crypto equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling, "lalalalala"?

Did you check the github?
The tools:
https://github.com/ConsensusResearch/MultiBranch
https://github.com/ConsensusResearch/ForgingSimulation
Would you like an .exe file with a big red button "LAUNCH ATTACK" on it?
10% of NXT is 100 million coins. Last time I checked the hacker got away with 8 million coins. FUD'ing is not checking facts or twisting them in your favor.
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
bter hacker end up with less than 1% of the NXT (after the negotiation).
please contact kushti for more information about his stuff.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Towards the end kushti talks about releasing a test chain and tools to attack it with, as well as another paper with some mitigation strategies, but afaics none of those were ever released. I don't think that thread disproves anything, but OK, carry on staking.

jonald_fyookball says he doesn't have the time and energy to digest Kushti's research paper. He's honest about it, he didn't read it.

Towards the end and towards the beginning Kushti's conclusion is the same: long-range attack is not possible.
Short-range is theoretically possible with 10% of all coins for 20 blocks - 20 minutes for full confirmation of the transaction is recommended. Bitcoin recommends 6 confirmations (60 minutes) to protect against short-range attacks. But OK, carry on FUD'ing.

Not trying to drag thread off topic, but where is the experimental blockchain and attack tools that were supposed to be released to demonstrate this practice. Where is the formalized paper?

Another problem is that many (all?) PoS coins suffer from poor distribution, so it's possible one entity owns more than 10% of all coins. Didn't Bter hacker steal like 10% of all NXT? Satoshi might own 10% of all Bitcoin but that doesn't mean he can attack the chain with a single i7 cpu.

As an aside, is the word 'FUD' the crypto equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling, "lalalalala"?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Towards the end kushti talks about releasing a test chain and tools to attack it with, as well as another paper with some mitigation strategies, but afaics none of those were ever released. I don't think that thread disproves anything, but OK, carry on staking.

jonald_fyookball says he doesn't have the time and energy to digest Kushti's research paper. He's honest about it, he didn't read it.

Towards the end and towards the beginning Kushti's conclusion is the same: long-range attack is not possible.
Short-range is theoretically possible with 10% of all coins for 20 blocks - 20 minutes for full confirmation of the transaction is recommended. Bitcoin recommends 6 confirmations (60 minutes) to protect against short-range attacks. But OK, carry on FUD'ing.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc. Also, Chandler?

Re: PoS, the problem is nothing-at-stake and stake grinding. You can't get something for nothing. If a large miner wants to try a 51% attack he has to at least expend huge amounts of energy mining a fork, losing income from mining the accepted chain. If a large stake holder wants to attack the network it costs nothing except a few cpu cycles.

The nothing-at-stake myth was debunked long ago, do not FUD please. Oh, maybe you like to be screwed by Guo dude? Enjoy the pleasure.

Where was it debunked? Can you link to some manuscript or technical analysis? Who debunked it, iGotSpots? Tongue

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nothing-at-stake-long-range-attack-on-proof-of-stake-consensus-research-897488
Kushti, the guy who works for Charles Hoskinson of IOHK.

Read the first few posts by jonald_fyookball in that thread, like this one:
I don't have the time/energy to fully digest what the paper
is saying, but the conclusions of the author seem to say that
Nothing at stake is a real problem that hasn't been solved.

Quote
As we have all the algorithms developed to simulate N@S attack we
present result in the separate paper along with possible ways to resist it.
Giving some results now we present not the full picture of the problem. Fol-
lowing this section it is reasonable to get the impression that this problem
actually matters
and we concentrate to possible solutions at the moment....


...The open question for the future work are: (1) the PoS consensus depen-
dence on the measure function (2) the ways to avoid N@S attack if any (3)
the optimal confirmation length investigation (4) the optimal multibranch
depth investigation.

Towards the end kushti talks about releasing a test chain and tools to attack it with, as well as another paper with some mitigation strategies, but afaics none of those were ever released. I don't think that thread disproves anything, but OK, carry on staking.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc. Also, Chandler?

Re: PoS, the problem is nothing-at-stake and stake grinding. You can't get something for nothing. If a large miner wants to try a 51% attack he has to at least expend huge amounts of energy mining a fork, losing income from mining the accepted chain. If a large stake holder wants to attack the network it costs nothing except a few cpu cycles.

The nothing-at-stake myth was debunked long ago, do not FUD please. Oh, maybe you like to be screwed by Guo dude? Enjoy the pleasure.

Where was it debunked? Can you link to some manuscript or technical analysis? Who debunked it, iGotSpots? Tongue

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nothing-at-stake-long-range-attack-on-proof-of-stake-consensus-research-897488
Kushti, the guy who works for Charles Hoskinson of IOHK.
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc. Also, Chandler?

Re: PoS, the problem is nothing-at-stake and stake grinding. You can't get something for nothing. If a large miner wants to try a 51% attack he has to at least expend huge amounts of energy mining a fork, losing income from mining the accepted chain. If a large stake holder wants to attack the network it costs nothing except a few cpu cycles.

The nothing-at-stake myth was debunked long ago, do not FUD please. Oh, maybe you like to be screwed by Guo dude? Enjoy the pleasure.

Where was it debunked? Can you link to some manuscript or technical analysis? Who debunked it, iGotSpots? Tongue

It was kushti from the consensus research group, you can pm him, he will most likely send you the documentation.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc. Also, Chandler?

Re: PoS, the problem is nothing-at-stake and stake grinding. You can't get something for nothing. If a large miner wants to try a 51% attack he has to at least expend huge amounts of energy mining a fork, losing income from mining the accepted chain. If a large stake holder wants to attack the network it costs nothing except a few cpu cycles.

The nothing-at-stake myth was debunked long ago, do not FUD please. Oh, maybe you like to be screwed by Guo dude? Enjoy the pleasure.

Where was it debunked? Can you link to some manuscript or technical analysis? Who debunked it, iGotSpots? Tongue
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 501
The whole situation is actually hilarious. Worth remembering that pointing all that hashing power at Classic takes it away from Ethereum and makes that network less secure. We are in unchartered territory here. Exciting.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

Network, nodes don't matter. 3 chinese miners make decisions in proof of work.

From the history of NXT it didn't roll back anything. A hacker stole coins from Bter, the NXT community voted with their stakes to keep status quo. Rolling back would open a can of worms, like it just did in Eth. They voted with their stakes to keep the chain as is. If you read an alternative version of NXT history, care to provide links?

I know it didn't happen but the fact that it was even proposed is already a disaster. And lol at community, a couple of whales did. And nodes matter, they ultimately validate transactions and dictate what software is being run.

You need to understand how it works before FUDding about PoW and how PoS is so great, watch the videos.

Anyone can propose anything, so what. What matters is what happens, deeds make history, not words.

Instead of videos I'll watch Guo troll POW coin holders.

Too bad Guo can't do shit against a real network like Bitcoin. On the contrary if NXT whales congregate and decide to conspire about something they can pull it off.

Listen I understand you are holding NXT, but PoS is shit compared to PoW, it is what it is. You can still dump all your alts and join the winning (Bitcoin) team.

Thanks but no, thanks. Bitcoin is a losing team. But you can still sell it while going's good before 3 chinese miners have colluded to advance whatever agenda they or TPTB, with whom they are in bed by love or by force, have.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

Network, nodes don't matter. 3 chinese miners make decisions in proof of work.

From the history of NXT it didn't roll back anything. A hacker stole coins from Bter, the NXT community voted with their stakes to keep status quo. Rolling back would open a can of worms, like it just did in Eth. They voted with their stakes to keep the chain as is. If you read an alternative version of NXT history, care to provide links?

I know it didn't happen but the fact that it was even proposed is already a disaster. And lol at community, a couple of whales did. And nodes matter, they ultimately validate transactions and dictate what software is being run.

You need to understand how it works before FUDding about PoW and how PoS is so great, watch the videos.

Anyone can propose anything, so what. What matters is what happens, deeds make history, not words.

Instead of videos I'll watch Guo troll POW coin holders.

Too bad Guo can't do shit against a real network like Bitcoin. On the contrary if NXT whales congregate and decide to conspire about something they can pull it off.

Listen I understand you are holding NXT, but PoS is shit compared to PoW, it is what it is. You can still dump all your alts and join the winning (Bitcoin) team.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

Network, nodes don't matter. 3 chinese miners make decisions in proof of work.

From the history of NXT it didn't roll back anything. A hacker stole coins from Bter, the NXT community voted with their stakes to keep status quo. Rolling back would open a can of worms, like it just did in Eth. They voted with their stakes to keep the chain as is. If you read an alternative version of NXT history, care to provide links?

I know it didn't happen but the fact that it was even proposed is already a disaster. And lol at community, a couple of whales did. And nodes matter, they ultimately validate transactions and dictate what software is being run.

You need to understand how it works before FUDding about PoW and how PoS is so great, watch the videos.

Anyone can propose anything, so what. What matters is what happens, deeds make history, not words.

Instead of videos I'll watch Guo troll POW coin holders.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

Network, nodes don't matter. 3 chinese miners make decisions in proof of work.

From the history of NXT it didn't roll back anything. A hacker stole coins from Bter, the NXT community voted with their stakes to keep status quo. Rolling back would open a can of worms, like it just did in Eth. They voted with their stakes to keep the chain as is. If you read an alternative version of NXT history, care to provide links?

I know it didn't happen but the fact that it was even proposed is already a disaster. And lol at community, a couple of whales did. And nodes matter, they ultimately validate transactions and dictate what software is being run.

You need to understand how it works before FUDding about PoW and how PoS is so great, watch the videos.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1176
@FAILCommunity
I gotta watch this thread for whatever the outcome.

It appears that he follow us on Twitter, so I'll try to invite him here. Smiley

EDIT: There you go: https://twitter.com/FAILCommunity/status/757220073337712640

legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1054
Seem like he has a serious equipment to do it. Can this be legal that polo can't sue this China man if indeed he really will attach ETC?
I gotta watch this thread for whatever the outcome. if he can attack ETC, what can stop him from destroying the rest.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

Network, nodes don't matter. 3 chinese miners make decisions in proof of work.

From the history of NXT it didn't roll back anything. A hacker stole coins from Bter, the NXT community voted with their stakes to keep status quo. Rolling back would open a can of worms, like it just did in Eth. They voted with their stakes to keep the chain as is. If you read an alternative version of NXT history, care to provide links?
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1176
@FAILCommunity
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc.

I know that, but this is him on the picture. You can check his FB profile and see some big farms with GPU's...

Then post a picture of his GPU farm. This sounds like a bluff to me.

... and it looks like he got some serious equipment (not sure if it's real or not, feel free to check his profiles)

Edit Asking people to provide their personal information to the NSA (among others) via Facebook / PRISM is not going to cut it with many here.

I'm not sure what you mean. Is it because of this?

(not sure if it's real or not, feel free to check his profiles)
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

What rollback? Fyi, Nxt has never rollback the blockchain.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc.

I know that, but this is him on the picture. You can check his FB profile and see some big farms with GPU's...

Then post a picture of his GPU farm. This sounds like a bluff to me

Bluff or not, in Proof of work what he said is possible. No moon base for POW, sorry.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1183
That guys got some serious equipment there. Gud news he's on the ETH side.

Imagine an institutional investor bought a POW coin, like Bitcoin. A dude in China threatens to fuck around with that investment because he can. Many people wonder why Bitcoin doesn't go to moon. That's why. Because now instead of banks some Guo dude in China controls your money. How is it different from banks? No how, that's how. It can get to the point when it's a matter of national security.

Only Proof of stake lets you manage your money, you own, use and control it.

This is not the case if the network (nodes) are decentralized. This is why it's important to keep supporting Core and not bigger block crap that will centralize the nodes and give all power to datacenter node companies and mining companies (that will eventually become the same thing if big block retards were in charge).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM


More in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjyRAuw6zQ

As we have seen before, PoS can be a total catastrophe. Few holders can decide to rollback and shit like that. Remember NXT? yeah.

PoW is still the most solid way to go about things, objectively speaking.
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