Somebody in Washington is not happy | Bitcointalksearch.org

Lethn

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Quote from: Haole on November 16, 2012, 11:36:07 PM

Well, I reckon you don't ask permission to secede, you just go ahead and frickin' do it.

While this is encouraging, I could see it getting co-opted on a national level and going pfft like the occupy movement for example...

Well I hope that's not the case, the problem with the occupy movement is the ones that appeared on the media at least were misguided people really raging against the establishment and didn't actually know what caused it so they targeted the most obvious scapegoat wall street. While these guys did benefit a lot from the crisis they didn't actually cause it. Peter Schiff even posted up a video on youtube where he tried actually debating with them on their own terms and thought they should be marching on the federal reserve instead but they just went ahead and ranted about evil corporations.

What I'm worried about is these states that succeeding are only going to be filled with racist and religious evangelicals like the kind that would watch fox news and believe every word of it, if that happens then the movement would lose all credibility and just be another pathetic confederacy.

Rudd-O

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Quote from: Haole on November 16, 2012, 11:36:07 PM

Well, I reckon you don't ask permission to secede, you just go ahead and frickin' do it.

Correct. Texans asking (pretty please) the feds for permission to secede is no different (in principle and in practice) than Negroes asking their masters to walk free. If one wants to be free, asking for one's freedom ain't going to work, because the very act of asking presupposes that one is not free to begin with.

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Haole on November 16, 2012, 11:36:07 PM

Well, I reckon you don't ask permission to secede, you just go ahead and frickin' do it.

While this is encouraging, I could see it getting co-opted on a national level and going pfft like the occupy movement for example...

Don't write off Occupy just yet. They're doing good things. But I have a hard time imaging a secession movement being co-opted federally... Wink

Haole

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Well, I reckon you don't ask permission to secede, you just go ahead and frickin' do it.

While this is encouraging, I could see it getting co-opted on a national level and going pfft like the occupy movement for example...

myrkul

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Quote from: Rudd-O on November 16, 2012, 11:20:40 PM

Quote from: chrisrico on November 14, 2012, 01:07:26 AM

Quote from: Lethn on November 12, 2012, 03:48:47 PM

I need to double check things but I'm pretty sure it's entirely within the power of states to do this.

Have you heard of a little thing called the Civil War? It paints a vivid picture of the Federal government's stance on state secession.

I believe it's called "The War of Northern Aggression" ;-)

I prefer "The Second American Revolution." Wink

Rudd-O

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Quote from: chrisrico on November 14, 2012, 01:07:26 AM

Quote from: Lethn on November 12, 2012, 03:48:47 PM

I need to double check things but I'm pretty sure it's entirely within the power of states to do this.

Have you heard of a little thing called the Civil War? It paints a vivid picture of the Federal government's stance on state secession.

I believe it's called "The War of Northern Aggression" ;-)

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Have to laugh at states that violate civil rights with impunity seceding from the U.S. Especially Texas, which uses Jim Crow laws to keep minorities from being able to effectively defend themselves in public, as well as New Jersey.

As far as I'm concerned, their governments have already seceded, as long as they've been using the Constitution they ratified as toilet paper.

myrkul

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: myrkul on November 14, 2012, 12:07:27 AM

This is likely to get messy very quickly, or the US will simply dissolve as an entity.

As bad as the fed can be, I would rather have it around than whatever takes its place. Not to mention what happens in the time inbetween.

The "inbetween" is definitely not on my top ten list of things to experience before I die. Life in a failed State is Not Fun^®. The replacements for a federal government likely to spring up from such a failed State aren't what I would consider prime vacation spots, either.

That said, a dissolution of the federal government need not be the violent, turbulent thing we all fear. Tell me, what interaction with the federal government do you have, on a day to day basis? How much would life really change for you if it went away? The US military would all likely come home. That can't be a bad thing. Who here doesn't have a friend or a relative in the military? Federal lands would become property of the state they are in. Federal income tax would go away. State taxes would probably go up a bit to compensate for loss of federal funding. Probably the worst hit would be the reporters. With no beltway scandals, they'd have to go back to reporting state and local stuff. Poor guys.

Step in the right direction, if you ask me.

farlack

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I'm curious what the UN will do, they approve of nations becoming sovern and they attack those who try to stop it.
Will the US be able to attack a state that rebels and be hypocrites?

chrisrico

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Quote from: Lethn on November 12, 2012, 03:48:47 PM

I need to double check things but I'm pretty sure it's entirely within the power of states to do this.

Have you heard of a little thing called the Civil War? It paints a vivid picture of the Federal government's stance on state secession.

Lethn

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Holy cow, it's 92,691 now, what happens if it reaches 500,000? LOL Cheesy

dotcom

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Texas now has 75000 signatures.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions/popular/0/2/0/

damn that went up quick lol

myrkul

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Quote from: Lethn on November 13, 2012, 11:54:44 PM

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 13, 2012, 05:09:43 PM

They can collect 50 million signatures -- if they attempt to secede in any practical way, anyone doing anything to support that end goal will no doubt be slaughtered like pigs.

That is the unfortunate reality. Never bring a signature to a gunfight. :-)

People have fought for independence before, I think it is pretty naive to think it won't happen again just because of the era we're in, all that's needed is for one of the states to call themselves a republic and then the federal government will throw a fit.

What a state calls itself is largely irrelevant. Most people still consider it the Republic of Texas. I just recently learned that London and The City of London are two separate entities, so I'll forgive you not knowing the intricacies of the federal system. Ideally, each state governs itself, except in certain matters as defined by the constitution. This includes internal structure, such as whether it is structured as a republic or a commonwealth, or some other form of democracy.

Now, when a state declares itself completely sovereign, and not subject to federal control, that's when things start to get messy. As has been mentioned, last time this was attempted, lots of people died over it. Constitutionally, it was supposed to be possible, but Lincoln rather put the kabosh on that. Before the civil war, one would say, "the United States are." After, one says, "the United States is."

This is likely to get messy very quickly, or the US will simply dissolve as an entity.

Lethn

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Quote from: Rudd-O on November 13, 2012, 05:09:43 PM

They can collect 50 million signatures -- if they attempt to secede in any practical way, anyone doing anything to support that end goal will no doubt be slaughtered like pigs.

That is the unfortunate reality. Never bring a signature to a gunfight. :-)

People have fought for independence before, I think it is pretty naive to think it won't happen again just because of the era we're in, all that's needed is for one of the states to call themselves a republic and then the federal government will throw a fit.

Littleshop

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Texas now has 75000 signatures.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions/popular/0/2/0/

Wake me up when it crosses 2.6 million, which is 10% of the population of Texas.

Rudd-O

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They can collect 50 million signatures -- if they attempt to secede in any practical way, anyone doing anything to support that end goal will no doubt be slaughtered like pigs.

That is the unfortunate reality. Never bring a signature to a gunfight. :-)

Bitware

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weaving spiders come not here

Quote from: DannyHamilton on November 13, 2012, 10:47:57 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on November 13, 2012, 05:17:27 AM

Quote from: SaintDevil on November 12, 2012, 04:16:33 PM

I signed it. Grin

It would be interesting to see one small part of the US as a separate country.

Lakota Nation recently seceded.

As far as I'm aware, the Lakota Nation is ultimately subject to supervisory oversight by the United States Congress and executive regulation through the Bureau of Indian Affairs

http://www.ted.com/talks/aaron_huey.html

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on November 13, 2012, 05:17:27 AM

Quote from: SaintDevil on November 12, 2012, 04:16:33 PM

I signed it. Grin

It would be interesting to see one small part of the US as a separate country.

Lakota Nation recently seceded.

As far as I'm aware, the Lakota Nation is ultimately subject to supervisory oversight by the United States Congress and executive regulation through the Bureau of Indian Affairs

compro01

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Quote from: Lethn on November 12, 2012, 03:48:47 PM

I need to double check things but I'm pretty sure it's entirely within the power of states to do this.

See Texas v. White (1869). States do not have the right to unilaterally secede.

I don't believe the question of whether states can secede with the permission of the federal government has ever been asked or answered.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: SaintDevil on November 12, 2012, 04:16:33 PM

I signed it. Grin

It would be interesting to see one small part of the US as a separate country.

Lakota Nation recently seceded.

Topic: Somebody in Washington is not happy (Read 2636 times)