somebody please just set the minimum price - it's so easy - page 2.

acoindr

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Quote from: acoindr on October 15, 2011, 02:49:15 PM

21 million coins at .01 = 210,000 not 2.1M

i didn't see anyone mention 0.01, only 0.1.

You're right. The OP has .1$ which is a sort of weird format, which when I glanced at registered as somebody guaranteeing Bitcoins for 1 penny.

I'm not sure why the choice of 10 cents then. As long as Bitcoins can't go to zero that concern is alleviated.

norulezapply

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Quote from: astana on October 16, 2011, 07:15:42 AM

I think someone big will get into the marker, somehow they have to lift the cap of 21mil coins, even if it can't be done. 21mil is not enough, 100mil is though.

21million is only not enough if you treat coins with the same divisibility as conventional money (0.01 being the lowest value).

There's 8 decimal places with bitcoins. 0.00000001 is the lowest value. This is why we don't need any more coins. If you think about it this way, there are 21,000,000,000,000 "coins", if you use their full divisibility and treat them in the same fashion as most conventional currencies (e.g. 0.01 x 100 = 1 "coin")

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: astana on October 16, 2011, 07:15:42 AM

I think someone big will get into the marker, somehow they have to lift the cap of 21mil coins, even if it can't be done. 21mil is not enough, 100mil is though.

Why is 100 mil enough?

astana

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I think someone big will get into the marker, somehow they have to lift the cap of 21mil coins, even if it can't be done. 21mil is not enough, 100mil is though.

anu

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 15, 2011, 08:37:14 PM

Quote from: trout on October 15, 2011, 08:49:22 AM

I'm not sure how a "legal-binding obligation" can be formalized, but if a company with considerable reputation and market value simply publishes such a statement, it's already a big deal. I'm sure there are better and more "binding" ways to do it though.

More importantly WHY THE FRAK would anyone do it? To be nice? Because they believe in rainbows and unicorns which shit skittles?

Most millionaires didn't become millionaires by waking up and saying "Hey I know what I am going to do today. Take on $2.1M in risk with not only no gain no gain but no potential gain".

No gain? Not even potential gain? I was actually wondering not if, but when something along these lines would happen. As a Billionaire, you do a small investment:

1. Slowly buy up substantial parts of the bitcoins ( a million or so).
2. Announce big Bitcoin plans to the world.
3. Watch the rally
4. Profit

norulezapply

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Quote from: trout on October 15, 2011, 06:06:36 AM

Can somebody just promise to back the price up?
Say, somebody with a real name (or a real company)
could issue a legally binding obligation to buy BTC

Why would ANYONE want to do this?
What have they got to gain from buying coins from people that could be essentially worthless? Apart from that they have to buy them because they promised everyone they would?

In an ideal world, this would be nice. But in the real world, this will never happen. But hey, if you want to sell me all your bitcoins right now for $0.10 each i'll gladly accept =D

So, what's to stop your USD or GBP or any other currency from turning completely worthless with the current rampant inflation? People still massively trust those, even though their *actual worth* is falling every day.

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: trout on October 15, 2011, 08:49:22 AM

I'm not sure how a "legal-binding obligation" can be formalized, but if a company with considerable reputation and market value simply publishes such a statement, it's already a big deal. I'm sure there are better and more "binding" ways to do it though.

More importantly WHY THE FRAK would anyone do it? To be nice? Because they believe in rainbows and unicorns which shit skittles?

Most millionaires didn't become millionaires by waking up and saying "Hey I know what I am going to do today. Take on $2.1M in risk with not only no gain no gain but no potential gain".

repentance

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Quote from: zer0 on October 15, 2011, 07:03:32 PM

Start a new block chain and say it's backed by gold. C-Gold and Pecunix started out with tiny investments and grew from there. Somewhat more stable pricing, at least no pump and dumps straight to $1

An individual exchange or e-wallet could back its holdings with gold but you couldn't back an entire blockchain with gold without creating a central authority to issue the digital currency and purchase and hold the gold reserves. Because new coins are created on a set schedule, they'd need to buy gold equivalent to the value of those new coins each day. That requires some serious capital reserves.

zer0

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Start a new block chain and say it's backed by gold. C-Gold and Pecunix started out with tiny investments and grew from there. Somewhat more stable pricing, at least no pump and dumps straight to $1

anu

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Quote from: alan2here on October 15, 2011, 04:12:12 PM

I think Jacque Fresco's idea of a resource based economy could work really well as a way of doing things without money, but it would require just that, a big rethink. Simply phasing out money would never work, unless though progress of technoligy we effectivly get to something like the resource based economy without having to redesign anything.

I suggest to read Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom". You'll understand that a planned economy will inevitably slide down a slippery slope into totalitarianism. Do you think Pol Pot and Mao started out with the intention to become the most terrible mass murders in human history? Not at all.

It's shocking to see how the economic insecurity of recent times makes people demanding planners. Even on this forum. Bitcoin is all about freedom, is it not?

alan2here

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WorkAsPro

I think Jacque Fresco's idea of a resource based economy could work really well as a way of doing things without money, but it would require just that, a big rethink. Simply phasing out money would never work, unless though progress of technoligy we effectivly get to something like the resource based economy without having to redesign anything.

acoindr

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21 million coins at .01 = 210,000 not 2.1M

anu

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Quote from: evoorhees on October 15, 2011, 01:57:02 PM

I guarantee you that's not true. If there are people trading, some form of money will emerge. Maybe not an "official national currency" but who cares about that.

Right, trading is fundamental in human nature. So money is, too.

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 02:33:00 PM

OK, I thought you were trying to make a point that there is a successful govt w/o a fiat currency. Now I am unclear what your point was.

Thought this was obvious. If you do social experiments that go fundamentally against human nature, you must be prepared to kill. In the Millions. Are you sure you want to abolish money?

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: anu on October 15, 2011, 02:10:11 PM

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 01:59:43 PM

Here is Cambodian money. KHR

Surely you can present one from the time of 1975-1980.

Quote from: anu on October 15, 2011, 01:42:41 PM

The Khmer Rouge already were successful in ridding their country of money. Cambodia doesn't have a real currency even now.

OK, I thought you were trying to make a point that there is a successful govt w/o a fiat currency. Now I am unclear what your point was.

anu

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Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 01:59:43 PM

Here is Cambodian money. KHR

Surely you can present one from the time of 1975-1980.

anu

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Quote from: WiseOldOwl on October 15, 2011, 01:51:00 PM

Quote from: anu on October 15, 2011, 01:42:41 PM

The Khmer Rouge already were successful in ridding their country of money. Cambodia doesn't have a real currency even now.

Please elaborate, this is interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_riel#The_Khmer_Rouge.2C_1975-1980

It should go without saying that the Khmer Rouge went as far as no other to bring about the Communist utopia. Correspondingly their death toll was the highest in proportion to the population:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia

More interesting is that real money in Cambodia is all foreign. You can pay in USD or THB. In fact this is a country that should adopt Bitcoin large scale, maybe making a Bitcoin backed dead-tree-money. It's quite predictable if they do this will spill over the borders to Thailand, Vietnam and Laos pretty quickly and from there to the rest of the world.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: evoorhees on October 15, 2011, 01:57:02 PM

Quote from: anu on October 15, 2011, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 12:01:06 PM

I forgot to include the obligatory sarcasm emoticon. TBH, I am not anti-bitcoin, I am anti-money. Period. I want to see bitcoin as the next evolutionary step before we get away from money altogether. I see bonds as just another way of selling silk purses.

The Khmer Rouge already were successful in ridding their country of money.

I guarantee you that's not true. If there are people trading, some form of money will emerge. Maybe not an "official national currency" but who cares about that.

Here is Cambodian money. KHR
http://www.holiday-in-angkor-wat.com/images/cambodian-money-50b.jpg

jjiimm_64

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some form of 'trade' will occur.... we could always go back to cows and chickens?

How will you pay to get your wagon wheel fixed if you cant do it?

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: anu on October 15, 2011, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 12:01:06 PM

I forgot to include the obligatory sarcasm emoticon. TBH, I am not anti-bitcoin, I am anti-money. Period. I want to see bitcoin as the next evolutionary step before we get away from money altogether. I see bonds as just another way of selling silk purses.

The Khmer Rouge already were successful in ridding their country of money.

I guarantee you that's not true. If there are people trading, some form of money will emerge. Maybe not an "official national currency" but who cares about that.

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 01:00:38 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on October 15, 2011, 12:55:45 PM

Quote from: cbeast on October 15, 2011, 12:01:06 PM

I forgot to include the obligatory sarcasm emoticon. TBH, I am not anti-bitcoin, I am anti-money. Period. I want to see bitcoin as the next evolutionary step before we get away from money altogether. I see bonds as just another way of selling silk purses.

That's silly. Money is as natural to mankind, and as necessary, as language. If people trade, they will barter for things. If they barter for things, a natural money-commodity will emerge in the marketplace. The world should abandon national fiat monies, not money as a concept.

That's a bold statement that man needs money. If so, then why don't other intelligent animals use money? There are many animals with known language ability. In fact, most animals share resources. They care for their young and even extended family. How much do you charge your children for their breakfast? Have you never done anything for anyone without asking for something in return?

I didn't say man "needs" money, I said man always develops money through exchange. It is natural because the only way to prevent something from being used as money is to use violence/force to prevent it. A government could perhaps "mandate" that no money be used, but even in practice you'd have people prefer one good over another for common trade, be it cigs or seashells or buttons... something always emerges as a common medium of exchange, a money. The fact that deer and alligators don't use money doesn't disprove my theory =)

Also, just because societies always develop a form of money doesn't mean every transaction requires money. People always trade/barter with other goods... but this is always a minority of transactions in an economy. And of course people always "donate" to each other also - providing goods or services with no compensation. But again, the vast majority of value exchanges in a society will tend to use a form of money. It's unavoidable, and certainly nothing to be afraid of.

Topic: somebody please just set the minimum price - it's so easy - page 2. (Read 6111 times)