Someone just took a gigantic dump. - page 2.

Jonathan Ryan Owens

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Quote

Wasn't bitcoinexpress' alleged attack pool up to almost a terahash by his claims? I disagree that it can survive such a dip in network security. I am no expert, but Ars is pushing 895GH/s with 459 users...you can bet your sweet ass that there are 500 people interested in causing trouble should the network become that weak.

You're talking about an attack that has very little value at $0.5. It would take a coordinated attack, and if it's vulnerable then so be it. $20,000 a day to secure a network that has almost no actual traction is ridiculous. It is the reason for the speculating and pyramid. You're also assuming that at $0.5 those miners would be part of a larger pool that could act as a proxy for attacks, and I think at those prices, you'd find that no single pool would have anything more in total network control than they have now, where their relative size stays constant, but where 70% of their members are lost through attrition.

[edit: clarity, grammar, some missing words]

RandyFolds

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Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on November 17, 2011, 03:02:37 AM

Quote from: sapp on November 17, 2011, 02:57:22 AM

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on November 17, 2011, 02:47:08 AM

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.

As long as people like him continue to try to prop the price, there will be no accurate price discovery. If bitcoin is worth $0.5, SO BE IT. Ok, so then a lot of miners have to liquidate their sunk costs, or at the very least power down.

That's totally fine. The electricity cost per day to secure the bitcoin network is orders of magnitude larger than the commerce value.

Bitcoin can survive with 2 Th/s. We don't need 10 Th/s.

Let bitcoin find its price equilibrium for a new beginning.

Wasn't bitcoinexpress' alleged attack pool up to almost a terahash by his claims? I disagree that it can survive such a dip in network security. I am no expert, but Ars is pushing 895GH/s with 459 users...you can bet your sweet ass that there are 500 people interested in causing trouble should the network become that weak.

Jonathan Ryan Owens

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Activity: 392

Merit: 252

Quote from: sapp on November 17, 2011, 02:57:22 AM

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on November 17, 2011, 02:47:08 AM

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.

As long as people like him continue to try to prop the price, there will be no accurate price discovery. If bitcoin is worth $0.5, SO BE IT. Ok, so then a lot of miners have to liquidate their sunk costs, or at the very least power down.

That's totally fine. The electricity cost per day to secure the bitcoin network is orders of magnitude larger than the commerce value.

Bitcoin can survive with 2 Th/s. We don't need 10 Th/s.

Let bitcoin find its price equilibrium for a new beginning.

sapp

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Activity: 22

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Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on November 17, 2011, 02:47:08 AM

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

Do you really think its a sinking ship? I know I am only new too bitcoin but I don't think bitcoin is going too be a sinking ship, if anything it might just slip below the surface of the ocean then shoot out like a missile up into the stratosphere and further.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on November 17, 2011, 02:47:08 AM

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

Alright you convinced me. Thanks for setting me straight. I will take the buywall down ... it should be gone in about 5 minutes.

Thanks again.

Jonathan Ryan Owens

donator

Activity: 392

Merit: 252

To the individual trying to bail out the sinking ship with price support..

Stop it. You're not helping the market find equilibrium with your ideological attempts. Most people think you're just a manipulator trying to buy up cheap coins. I think your whole existence - your pride and ego - are wrapped up in the price of bitcoin.

Look, get some sleep. Let the market do what it's going to do. Everyone feels that your actions are fraudulent, and virtually nobody has considered that your buy wall is borrowed money, that you can't provide for your family and that you are in so deep that you're on your last legs. Stop with the energy drinks, put your children to sleep and stop thinking you can control everything.

You can't.

Ferroh

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Activity: 111

Merit: 100

Quote from: Edward50 on November 15, 2011, 01:05:27 PM

Did you notice the 20,000 bitcoins being sold in one shot. This was probably why the manipulator pulled out at this point.

That was a buy, not a sell.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: memvola on November 15, 2011, 07:33:23 PM

One thing is for sure, since we can't get rid of those, we need more of them.

Ironically true.

I mean it could have been someone with 1/5 of the amount leveraging them on Bitcoinica, that narrows the list of potential suspects down a bit, but still you are right if there is no one who can compete at this level that happens.

But I can't see how the walls factor into this.. It could be someone else but who knows what's in zhoutongs secret sauce...

memvola

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:16:42 PM

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

I doubt that whether you have a lot of dollars or a lot of coins to begin with makes any difference if you are going to manipulate the market (long term) to make profit. I don't know how "coins left from the beginning" enters your reasoning here. USD/BTC is a market well known for its volatility (and lack of depth) by pretty much anyone who would be interested in entering such markets.

One thing is for sure, since we can't get rid of those, we need more of them.

Crypt_Current

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:33:50 PM

Yea that certainly gave him a nice influx. But I know he also lost some during this, there were times were you could buy with a negative spread.
Not enough to klick in time but certainly profitable if you were waiting for the indicators... so there are 2 sides of this.

Anyone with a big pile of coins (bitcoinica) can simply manipulate the market to recover whatever losses they saw during their activities. It would be foolish not to.

ElectricMucus

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Yea that certainly gave him a nice influx. But I know he also lost some during this, there were times were you could buy with a negative spread.
Not enough to klick in time but certainly profitable if you were waiting for the indicators... so there are 2 sides of this.

RandyFolds

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:16:42 PM

Quote from: RandyFolds on November 15, 2011, 05:10:27 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:07:41 PM

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

I haven't said that, you're right bitcoin is a scammers wet dream.. Anonymity, Privacy, non-reversibility, outside the reach of the legal system... stranger things have happend.

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

I whole-heartedly agree, but as I said, the FIRST thing to pop into my head was how many were gonna get zhoutonged in the bouncing.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: RandyFolds on November 15, 2011, 05:10:27 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:07:41 PM

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

I haven't said that, you're right bitcoin is a scammers wet dream.. Anonymity, Privacy, non-reversibility, outside the reach of the legal system... stranger things have happend.

I just think, Occams Razor applies - Someone who had alot of coins left from the beginning was kicking the market for fun and potential profit.

RandyFolds

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Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:07:41 PM

Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

So you don't think there is any way that someone with access to A LOT of coins would misuse them for profit? Worst case scenario, he disappears, best case scenario, he is a 17 year old baller. Atlas - you jelly?

ElectricMucus

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Yes they do.. but:

mtgox orders only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time. And if it is it's done immediately.

I tested this during zero volume periods, try it out if you buy a bitcoin there it takes place a few seconds later if nobody bets against you at the same time. I've tried that with different values so I'm pretty confident that it works this way

Crypt_Current

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 05:00:47 PM

Quote from: Crypt_Current on November 15, 2011, 04:52:01 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 02:39:03 PM

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

Idk you mean he is gambling with peoples coins? Or that the mechanism was programmed to channel shorts in this fashion?
What would be the benefit of that? In that case I don't think that that many shorts have accumulated in such a brief period of time.

I mean it looks manual and from what I observed buffering only takes place if there is no opposing order available to fill it at the time.

What I mean is simple: Bitcoinica moves a hell of a lot of coins.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Crypt_Current on November 15, 2011, 04:52:01 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 02:39:03 PM

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

Idk you mean he is gambling with peoples coins? Or that the mechanism was programmed to channel shorts in this fashion?
What would be the benefit of that? In that case I don't think that that many shorts have accumulated in such a brief period of time.

RandyFolds

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Quote from: Crypt_Current on November 15, 2011, 04:52:01 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 02:39:03 PM

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

I am actually amazed there hasn't been more speculation on that. It was one of the first things that popped into my head: 'wow, bitcoinica is making a fucking killing off this; i wonder if they had a hand in it.'

Crypt_Current

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on November 15, 2011, 02:39:03 PM

The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz Roll Eyes

What about zhoutong with his Bitcoinica?

ElectricMucus

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The only suspect I know of belonging to our alt-currency funhouse who could pull this is our beloved Artforz Roll Eyes

Topic: Someone just took a gigantic dump. - page 2. (Read 14798 times)