Topic: Something As Revolutionary As Bitcoin Is About To Emerge, Net Failed To Notice! (Read 16864 times)
March 20, 2014, 12:28:47 PM
The question is do we need it? Most users just want to surf and download stuff FAST. If it offered faster speeds then yes i would be up for it.
March 20, 2014, 05:01:47 AM
March 20, 2014, 04:38:09 AM
nice try.
now tell me: why should anyone put money into infrastructure or act as ISP, if the ability to make money by selling one's customers is taken away?
now tell me: why should anyone put money into infrastructure or act as ISP, if the ability to make money by selling one's customers is taken away?
Put money into what infrastructure?
And what do you mean act as ISP?
And what was i trying?
Edit: i think i understand what you are trying to say.
Question 1:
There is no need to put money into any infrastructure, if you want to upload data, you will need to be able to provide the equivalent amount of data to the network. This is in contrast to the traditional method of buying server space.
Question 2:
You do not act as an ISP,you still use the existing ISP you have.[/size][/size] You are part of a decentralized network of nodes, if you go offline, the network will not die and data will not be lost as multiple backups are distributed amongst the nodes (although your rank will lower) . You do this if you value freedom, privacy and anonymity.
In which case all the talk about privacy is moot as the ISP has all your traffic records ready to pass on to whoever pays the most surely?
Seems to me that an ISP being able to track your usage might not be relevant. The information you access would be chunked. This means that you would receive parts of it from all over the place. It would all be decrypted inside your computer, so nobody would know what you had received anyway. The chunked data constantly moves in the network from computer to computer as it is accessed and changed by the owner, and as computers shut down for the evening and re-start the next morning. It would take a tremendous amount of tracking capability to track this and algorithmically guess what it was that was being tracked and why. In fact, the tracking capabilities would need to be on an order of what it would take to crack the Bitcoin encryption. Can't be done without quantum computers, and it might even be difficult for them. Or does someone have an idea how to do it?
February 24, 2014, 11:35:48 PM
Looks wonderful! OP are you the owner?
February 24, 2014, 07:25:05 PM
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Perhaps because it takes time to develop trust in the security of a network? (Which includes trust in the core software, the network and infrastructure, and the core devs.) How long has MaidSafe operated in the wild?
All the code is open source. MaidSafe has mostly done in house testing but you can download and build the code to see it all working.Tutorials are going to be rolled out very soon:
My point was that it *takes time* to trust a system. Freenet has been around for many years, having experienced and ironed out countless serious unforeseen bugs.
Quote
Perhaps because the market is already kindof satisfied with existing solutions? (Freenet, I2p.)
...Freenet, if you have ever tried it is extremely slow and not completely anonymous.
How is it not "completely anonymous"? (As if anything can be.) Are you referring to freenet-opennet, or freenet-darknet -- the latter being the goal, the former being discouraged, but even so, has never been de-anonymized in practice?
It is indeed slow, and not currently suited for real-time low-latency usage. (But nevertheless great for forums and popular file sharing.) What are MaidSafe's latency numbers?
Quote
Perhaps because trustless opennet's are doomed by design? (This is why Freenet strongly encourages moving to a strictly darknet friend-to-friend model.)
Thats an issue with encryption and security and not with the concept of a decentralized internet.Huh? I meant that with trustless opennet's, there is a very serious risk of Agents infiltrating your peers, or poisoning bootstrapping lists, or Sybil-like attacks, etc. Friend-to-friend (darknets as opposed to p2p opennets) offer the only credible solution to this, IMHO.
February 24, 2014, 11:23:40 AM
I've been reading a bit about this and from what I can tell it's essentially just a complex P2P storage system, I cannot see how it will offer the ability to create actual dynamic websites without a server. I'm not exactly sure why it would be so much better than existing platforms. Tribler for example is essentially a completely decentralized torrent network which offers a good deal of privacy and advanced techniques for rewarding those who share their bandwidth and disk space. Honestly Bitcloud seems much more interesting to me...
Look at my previous post, where i quote the dev about what is possible with the maidsafe network. Dynamic websites are more than possible.
Check out
https://github.com/maidsafe/MaidSafe-common/blob/master/include/maidsafe/common/data_types/structured_data_versions.h
Which is managed on leveldb in the version managers on the network (i.e. massively scaled). You can see most of the code for those here. I am still not happy all the components here are distributed enough and c++ type erasure for serialisation is a nightmare, but may improve soon.
https://github.com/maidsafe/MaidSafe-Vault/tree/master/src/maidsafe/vault/version_handler
So it's bit structured and unstructured data. We will not answer the whole worlds questions for every app and use case, just like Tim Berners lee, Vint Cerf or Satoshi. Everyone should participate, extend improve and innovate. I think this is a better view of the network than today's centralised one though.
My vision is a free, secure, private Internet owned by us all fro us all and I do not care who gets it done. I just want it done and whoever shares this vision is a friend of mine and I will help them where I can. If my friends make mistakes I will support them, not because they are my friends, but because I wish to realise my vision and live in a world tomorrow that is fairer than today.
This stuff is different, bitcoin was different, it's not an overnight revelation, but I am happy to keep answering questions where I can, to find weakness and to improve continually as we must.
Again great suggestions questions and comments.
@metaquestions
David Irvine
February 24, 2014, 07:50:49 AM
Apart from all that, how do I use it then?
I couldn't find any client software so far.
I couldn't find any client software so far.
February 24, 2014, 07:40:38 AM
so its like an advanced version of emule and those early to mid 2000 apps ?
February 24, 2014, 07:31:02 AM
This network still relies on the existing infrastructure of the Internet. Users would need to build a new network for this to be a true , next generation p2p network.
February 24, 2014, 04:14:21 AM
Is this thing kind of related to http://openlibernet.org/?
I'm a bit confused about all of these incredibly interesting concepts, but they are awfully understandable.
Could someoune please make a list and a brief description of each.. Including maidsafe, openlibernet, ethereum and all of these "bitcoin inspired" network related freedom protocols. As i'm guessing one's complement each other's pitfalls
Thank you all.
I'm a bit confused about all of these incredibly interesting concepts, but they are awfully understandable.
Could someoune please make a list and a brief description of each.. Including maidsafe, openlibernet, ethereum and all of these "bitcoin inspired" network related freedom protocols. As i'm guessing one's complement each other's pitfalls
Thank you all.
February 24, 2014, 02:53:35 AM
I've been reading a bit about this and from what I can tell it's essentially just a complex P2P storage system, I cannot see how it will offer the ability to create actual dynamic websites without a server. I'm not exactly sure why it would be so much better than existing platforms. Tribler for example is essentially a completely decentralized torrent network which offers a good deal of privacy and advanced techniques for rewarding those who share their bandwidth and disk space. Honestly Bitcloud seems much more interesting to me...
Look at my previous post, where i quote the dev about what is possible with the maidsafe network. Dynamic websites are more than possible.
February 24, 2014, 02:44:33 AM
How do they get around performance issues? Seems like people in rural areas will not be able to participate. I live in a rural area and do not have fiber so my internet connection is quite slow 1Mbps - 2Mbps. If I want to store a file on MaidSafe that is say 100MB in size (not that large) it would be difficult to access that file.
I'm wondering how the local caching model works. Is there a local cache of your data and that gets split up and replicated across nodes in encrypted chunks? How will I get fast access to my own data on a slow internet connection?
I'm wondering how the local caching model works. Is there a local cache of your data and that gets split up and replicated across nodes in encrypted chunks? How will I get fast access to my own data on a slow internet connection?
February 24, 2014, 12:04:21 AM
Question: Wuala did something like this a while back, but has since stopped after being acquired by Lacie (and becoming just another dropbox clone in the process). Are there any similar existential risks for this project?
February 23, 2014, 10:47:22 PM
Well it has some problems but I can see that being fixed it is certainly more that anyone is offering at the moment. Wish you all the best!
This is not my project, i'm just trying to get this technology to be known by more people.
And thank you very much for your help. it's great to get so many questions and suggestions. On the Tor issue mentioned above in MaidSafe the IP address is scrubbed on first hop. The other big difference is we stay on the decentralised Internet so don't exist back to servers.
Thanks again folks we will try and make sure the token based system works as well to get rid of any licensing issues and allow people to earn by providing resources to folk who cannot. I hope MaidSafe becomes unknown and the projects building on it become famous. Most of all I hope our vision is realised and the world becomes more fair. There are additions I am very keen to make and it's outlined here if anyone is interested. http://metaquestions.me/2014/02/10/a-compelling-business-strategy-for-a-fair-world/
February 23, 2014, 09:56:43 PM
Well it has some problems but I can see that being fixed it is certainly more that anyone is offering at the moment. Wish you all the best!
This is not my project, i'm just trying to get this technology to be known by more people.
February 23, 2014, 09:54:19 PM
I read on one page that they received millions in investments already.
How do I invest?
How do I invest?
No investments necessary, this is not about making money, this is about making the internet private. Although they may be crypto-currencies which will live on the network.
February 23, 2014, 09:53:13 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble with a real practical problem.
Who is going to maintain all the wiring, fibre optics and so on without ISP's doing this?
Who is going to lay down new cables in new areas being built?
In my country, the biggest isps lay down fibre cables in new neighbourhoods and maintain older wiring
by replacing them on time.
If you would create an internet on THEIR cables, they will do whatever they feel they need to, to shut it down and I would have to agree with them.
They paid for the wiring. They built it in cooperation with the government on some places.
If you do not tackle THIS problem, you can hope for a darknet scale adoption at best.
I live in Europe.
Who is going to maintain all the wiring, fibre optics and so on without ISP's doing this?
Who is going to lay down new cables in new areas being built?
In my country, the biggest isps lay down fibre cables in new neighbourhoods and maintain older wiring
by replacing them on time.
If you would create an internet on THEIR cables, they will do whatever they feel they need to, to shut it down and I would have to agree with them.
They paid for the wiring. They built it in cooperation with the government on some places.
If you do not tackle THIS problem, you can hope for a darknet scale adoption at best.
I live in Europe.
This is not designed to get rid of ISPS, read my previous posts...
February 23, 2014, 09:52:14 PM
I've been reading a bit about this and from what I can tell it's essentially just a complex P2P storage system, I cannot see how it will offer the ability to create actual dynamic websites without a server. I'm not exactly sure why it would be so much better than existing platforms. Tribler for example is essentially a completely decentralized torrent network which offers a good deal of privacy and advanced techniques for rewarding those who share their bandwidth and disk space. Honestly Bitcloud seems much more interesting to me...
Look at my previous post, where i quote the dev about what is possible with the maidsafe network. Dynamic websites are more than possible.
February 23, 2014, 09:45:59 PM
nice try.
now tell me: why should anyone put money into infrastructure or act as ISP, if the ability to make money by selling one's customers is taken away?
now tell me: why should anyone put money into infrastructure or act as ISP, if the ability to make money by selling one's customers is taken away?
Put money into what infrastructure?
And what do you mean act as ISP?
And what was i trying?
Edit: i think i understand what you are trying to say.
Question 1:
There is no need to put money into any infrastructure, if you want to upload data, you will need to be able to provide the equivalent amount of data to the network. This is in contrast to the traditional method of buying server space.
Question 2:
You do not act as an ISP,you still use the existing ISP you have.[/size][/size] You are part of a decentralized network of nodes, if you go offline, the network will not die and data will not be lost as multiple backups are distributed amongst the nodes (although your rank will lower) . You do this if you value freedom, privacy and anonymity.
In which case all the talk about privacy is moot as the ISP has all your traffic records ready to pass on to whoever pays the most surely?
Then explain why Freenet gives you a certain level of anonymity from ISP's, surely?
February 23, 2014, 08:08:10 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble with a real practical problem.
Who is going to maintain all the wiring, fibre optics and so on without ISP's doing this?
Who is going to lay down new cables in new areas being built?
In my country, the biggest isps lay down fibre cables in new neighbourhoods and maintain older wiring
by replacing them on time.
If you would create an internet on THEIR cables, they will do whatever they feel they need to, to shut it down and I would have to agree with them.
They paid for the wiring. They built it in cooperation with the government on some places.
If you do not tackle THIS problem, you can hope for a darknet scale adoption at best.
I live in Europe.
Who is going to maintain all the wiring, fibre optics and so on without ISP's doing this?
Who is going to lay down new cables in new areas being built?
In my country, the biggest isps lay down fibre cables in new neighbourhoods and maintain older wiring
by replacing them on time.
If you would create an internet on THEIR cables, they will do whatever they feel they need to, to shut it down and I would have to agree with them.
They paid for the wiring. They built it in cooperation with the government on some places.
If you do not tackle THIS problem, you can hope for a darknet scale adoption at best.
I live in Europe.
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