Sorry guys.. Bitcoin is not for our day-to-day transactions. - page 4.

LogitechMouse

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If you will say Bitcoin directly to our day-to-day transaction then maybe I will agree with what you said.

Right now, I don't have any cash right now that didn't came into Bitcoin. It may not be used directly in my day to day transactions but my cash right now came from Bitcoin. You are saying this because there are not that much people using or accepting Bitcoin because of its problems like its fee and transaction speed but I believe that there will be a time that people will adopt into it and will choose to pay thru Bitcoin especially right now when there is a pandemic they'd rather pay thru BTC if they want rather than fiat.

Just wait for people to use Bitcoin and then post this thread again Cheesy

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SquirrelJulietGarden

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With my limited understanding on bitcoin and bitcoin transactions, I think there are 2 barriers for it to et bigger adoption as means of day-to-day transactions worldwide.
- Block size: The block size is capped and limit the maximum of transactions per block. The max transaction counts per block is not a fix number as it depends on total size of those transactions in a single block.
- Fee structure: Now, the rate of fee per vbyte (in satoshi) is decided by senders. They are components of fee race. The more people want to make transactions, the more hurry people who accept to take higher fees. At the ends, fee will automatically to be lifted up and only small senders (send small amount of bitcoin) will be charge a big percent of fee per total amount sent out.

- More adoption for Bech32 address on centralized exchanges (that I hope will increase in 2021).
- Increase the blocksize more, scale it up
- Second layer solution as Lightning network.
- Change the algorithm for fee structure (is it possible per protocol?): I think this point is very important and if it can be done, it would be a big boost for bitcoin adoption. Fee will be stable in satoshi/vbyte, for instance: X USD / vbyte and the more vbyte a transaction has, the more fee with be paid.

Only the fee in USD will be changed with bitcoin price in USD. Is it possible per Bitcoin protocol?

acener

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I had stopped dreaming about it ever since 2017 when Bitcoin first hit $20K or almost $20K.
The transaction has been so high ever since Bitcoin gain too much attention and too much price increased.
I realize that it wouldn't be used as a payment because of the transaction fee just imagine paying for coffee or food that is worth less than $10 and the transaction fee with Bitcoin would be more or less $1.
I know some people wouldn't care about it but most of us are saving money and would use anything to have a discount so using Bitcoin for us who are seeking to have cheaper transaction wouldn't really use Bitcoin for that kind of situation.

ranochigo

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Quote from: pokeronlinestatus on January 11, 2021, 05:19:17 AM

1. Countries may start having bitcoin as another reserve.

Here we should not assume like countries will first declare bitcoin as legal tender. They may collect as much as bitcoins first and then unveil their stand on bitcoins later.

They won't. Bitcoin is a speculative assets and tends to have a very large fluctuation in price. The total market cap, or if we consider the actual market cap of Bitcoin is very low as compared to the markets of precious metals and other reserve assets. Governments can at best have a tiny percentage of it in Bitcoins and it is not practical.

Quote from: pokeronlinestatus on January 11, 2021, 05:19:17 AM

2. Governments will prefer bitcoin as a digital asset rather than a payment system.

Bitcoin is created as an alternative to government controlled currencies, no? Why would we care what government prefers.

Quote from: pokeronlinestatus on January 11, 2021, 05:19:17 AM

3. Technically bitcoin is designed to be having huge value.

Limited supply and halving are explicit characteristics of bitcoins to assume it is designed to have huge value. When one satoshi is valuing 1 dollar or 10 dollar then you will not transact BTCs multiple time a day. Maybe you spend bitcoins monthly once or twice. Because you are going to use bitcoins only for your life's big things and you will have other income stream due to those big things which has happened with BTC payments.

Bitcoin can be divisible even further, it's just a matter of protocol change. The day 1 Bitcoin = 1 Million dollars isn't going to happen anytime soon, don't worry.

I don't see the practicality of on-chain transactions solely for the fact that merchants can barely accept unconfirmed transactions and having a huge fees with most transactions. I see a future with lightning network and other similar offchain solutions taking the role of daily microtransactions and stuff.

mardaed

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Quote from: dimonstration on January 11, 2021, 10:03:48 AM

Those who use BTC as Payment transaction for bills or for loading purposes regretted that they did that, they are more aware now that the price is able to increase if they will just hold or invest it. Those friends of mine who I know have BTC been monitoring the price and hopes they will able to buy again and will try not to use for simple transactions but just let it as their investment.

I have to agree with this statement here. Although I also use Bitcoin for my day to day transactions especially when emergency, by converting it first to my local currency, but as much as possible I do not wish to use my Bitcoin but to hold it instead. I have witnessed how much it can benefit me more if I would just hold and treat Bitcoin as my investment.

BrewMaster

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you are wrong.
the only reason why bitcoin value keeps going up is because so far bitcoin adoption has been small and until we reach mass adoption it will continue to rise exactly like this.
but when the mass adoption is reached the value becomes a lot more stable than today so it won't be like waking up tomorrow seeing price has gone up 50%.
the only thing that will rise in the future is the price and that is only because the fiat is constantly tanking otherwise the value will remain the same.

iTradeChips

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Well, for me I would never use Bitcoin for everyday transactions as I would prefer the other altcoins designed specifically to be a digital currency of some sorts. Bitcoin is too valuable to even be used as payment for everyday items. Satoshis perhaps but I would think others would also prefer to use Ethereum or Litecoin, or even Dogecoin for such matters. Anyway, good luck to those who have already bought their cafe latte's using Bitcoin.

0t3p0t

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Quote from: pokeronlinestatus on January 11, 2021, 05:19:17 AM

If you are holding your bitcoins with the expectation of bitcoin will be hitting main stream adoption one day so that you will easily buy groceries for direct BTC payments and pay your gas bill with BTC, your dream will get fulfilled one day but after that you may regret for spending bitcoins for lesser value or for silly things.

I mean we are holding something technically advanced one but with old-fashioned expectations.

We will be able to buy our dream house for less than half of 1 bitcoin or we may able to acquire a profitably running business for one bitcoin but most of us are focusing on a day where we will be able to pay a cup of coffee with bitcoin.

I have 3 reasons why bitcoin is not for everyday spending but for our life changing transactions.

1. Countries may start having bitcoin as another reserve.

Many experts are speculating bitcoin will replace gold as a nation's central bank's reserve.
If that will not be happening, at least countries will prefer to have another form of reserve which is suitable for digital age along with all the properties of gold.

Here we should not assume like countries will first declare bitcoin as legal tender. They may collect as much as bitcoins first and then unveil their stand on bitcoins later.

So, we must save what our countries will start saving today or tomorrow. Else, regretting will be the final thing.

2. Governments will prefer bitcoin as a digital asset rather than a payment system.

An asset is something that we do not transact daily. When people are not spending bitcoins for their daily needs, it would be easier for governments to track BTC transactions for taxation.

When BTC value in multi-millions, people will not spend it for daily needs as they value it as an asset and may spend only for buying a Ferrari or for Apple 12 pro. (I mean I am sure no one will buy an Apple phone everyday).

3. Technically bitcoin is designed to be having huge value.

Limited supply and halving are explicit characteristics of bitcoins to assume it is designed to have huge value. When one satoshi is valuing 1 dollar or 10 dollar then you will not transact BTCs multiple time a day. Maybe you spend bitcoins monthly once or twice. Because you are going to use bitcoins only for your life's big things and you will have other income stream due to those big things which has happened with BTC payments.

This way I assume 1MB blocks are enough for bitcoins forever. Because people will save bitcoins and may spend it once in year or decade Cheesy

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The current bull run is triggered by institutional fund mangers and this wave may get intensified by other corporate and by governments. So, save bitcoins as much as possible before governments start competing against us.

You are correct mate but it all depends on how we use Bitcoin in our daily lives. For us less fortunate we use it to buy or pay for something if we need to but for those living in the middle class and above they might use it for investment purposes.

itovault

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Absolutely, Bitcoin is more a store of value than a medium of exchange at this point. The large fees, and even lack of L2 solution, is a large reason the medium of exchange function isn't working.

dimonstration

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Those who use BTC as Payment transaction for bills or for loading purposes regretted that they did that, they are more aware now that the price is able to increase if they will just hold or invest it. Those friends of mine who I know have BTC been monitoring the price and hopes they will able to buy again and will try not to use for simple transactions but just let it as their investment.

Smartprofit

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Yes, I agree with the author of this topic.

Can Bitcoin be used as a means of payment? Yes it is possible.

How optimal is this? Difficult question. There are many other alternative payment methods.

Can 7 billion people use Bitcoin as a means of payment? No, this is technically impossible.

Can technical restrictions be lifted? In theory, yes. However, it is more likely that Bitcoin will be used as the world's reserve currency (reserve asset), not a means of payment.

Thus, Bitcoin does not need technical improvements.

Developers can focus on solving other problems - creating sidechains, creating algorithms that are resistant to being hacked by quantum computers, etc.

acquafredda

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Quote from: Husires on January 11, 2021, 09:34:45 AM

At some point, the price will stabilize, for example at the million dollars, and then we will begin to deal with the sat which will change as some currencies change as a result of inflation.
For example, a country like Turkey in which the currency has decreased by 30% and countries witnessing a change in the currency by 2%.

If the Bitcoin reaches enough of its market capacity, the satoshis will change by 10%.
Some will start laying the foundations for valuing bitcoins instead of relying on the dollar.

Bitcoin will never be stable until the mining goes on. Any different mining epoch will have to naturally adjust the price for miners to get their profit out and be able to pay for their bills, new equipment and so on. I believe this will avoid a stable price for a long time. Expect the ride to be bumpy and glorious at the same time.

NabonitaS

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It's great that you mentioned BTC bill payments (https://nowpayments.io/blog/pay-bills-with-bitcoin-btc) and groceries (https://nowpayments.io/blog/what-retailers-accept-bitcoin) - as more and more merchants do that.

You do have some interesting points!

Then what cryptocurrencies, in your opinion, are great for day-to-day transactions?

lifeforcepools

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So far, this is true, but I hope the situation will change. Maybe there are ways to make these transactions something everyday.

error08

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Quote from: romero121 on January 11, 2021, 07:15:56 AM

Bitcoin has got high Transaction fee. This is the reason why Bitcoin hasn't gained importance on daily transaction. Maybe this scenario will change when bitcoin becomes a supportive platform for micropayments. Right now the increased usage is on gambling, trading and large volume transactions to eliminate the usage of banking procedures.

That has been an obstacle for years but not always the main problem as the transaction fee can be paid only 1 says/byte and will be confirmed within 10 minutes, but whenever the price increase and too many queues on mempool then the fee goes up like crazy. Nonetheless, whoever wants to spend bitcoin on daily basis can do it with the lightning network or check the mempool before transact.

Husires

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At some point, the price will stabilize, for example at the million dollars, and then we will begin to deal with the sat which will change as some currencies change as a result of inflation.
For example, a country like Turkey in which the currency has decreased by 30% and countries witnessing a change in the currency by 2%.

If the Bitcoin reaches enough of its market capacity, the satoshis will change by 10%.
Some will start laying the foundations for valuing bitcoins instead of relying on the dollar.

serjent05

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Quote from: pokeronlinestatus on January 11, 2021, 05:19:17 AM

1. Countries may start having bitcoin as another reserve.

Many experts are speculating bitcoin will replace gold as a nation's central bank's reserve.
If that will not be happening, at least countries will prefer to have another form of reserve which is suitable for digital age along with all the properties of gold.

Here we should not assume like countries will first declare bitcoin as legal tender. They may collect as much as bitcoins first and then unveil their stand on bitcoins later.

So, we must save what our countries will start saving today or tomorrow. Else, regretting will be the final thing.

You are already wrong on this. Some countries had already declared Bitcoin as legal tender even without accumulating a large quantity of it. I think you are quite late on the news on this one. Though I agree, with a high fees, it is currently not suited for the day-to-day transactions, only those who have no option but only BTC as a source of his fund can only do these things. But to those who have fiat currency in hand, I am quite sure, they will hold BTC waiting for it to gain even more profit.

fiulpro

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Hi
Actually I have been using something , considering the high fee ofc people won't use it like that. But I have seen people coupling their transactions together.
For example A and B have to send BTC to their account and then convert it into Local currency do what they do is they send in the same account together and the fee is 1/2. Now this works for any number of people that might be there. For me I have a small community , if my friends wish to send recieve we generally couple together. It really better and doesn't cause any problem but ofc depends on the situation and time.
But not always you have to do this you can just use segwit and put your fee to low or medium. It will take time for sure. But at the same time many sites are confirming the transactions after 1 confirmation. Which does help a lot and saves a lot of time and money.
I think we just need time to find something for LN , improve it and just modify it. It's good to go otherwise.
It actually depends on what you are paying for, sometimes the international transactions are way better when done in BTC.

AicecreaME

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That's why we cannot have the fully cashless society yet, we still need fiat for our payment option. Your point indeed was correct, that spending Bitcoin, even in a small way, for example buying a $2-$3 product while the transaction fee is $7-$10, then it is not financially wise to do. However, not spending your Bitcoin will not help, it needs to be circulated in the market to continue rising.

Spending it three times a week is not bad to make people or small businesses owners aware that there are people who have Bitcoin and is willing to pay in Bitcoin, otherwise, they'll start to remove that payment option.

GideonGono

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I don't really think that Bitcoin would be something like that specially because of the transaction fee and the confirmation of transaction takes too much time.
I would just continue to use Fiat since it is more convenient for us we would just hand it over and the transaction is done and also if we would use crypto it would add up another fee along with the tax.

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