spend P2SH redeem script | Bitcointalksearch.org

GlenBot

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 07, 2023, 01:42:17 PM

This address (39QWbnkbcPFcrJFEB6yvVDc12eX5zqVt3y) doesn't have a private key though: It has an unlocking script, the details of which I've given above. The private key needed in the script is the one belonging to the uncompressed public key in the script, which leads to the address 1PE3udPhhcSP4RAkVVuTPwQrGidVtkcaA4.

If you try to sell someone that private key, they will see an empty (although previously used) address. To lead them to the given address you'd need to first teach them about scripting. And if they can understand the script well enough to generate the given address, then they'll see through the scam.

I got looking into 1PE3udPhhcSP4RAkVVuTPwQrGidVtkcaA4 when I saw https://x.com/MichaelDunwort1/status/1635424260314525696 | https://archive.ph/EjMaJ#selection-499.93-499.127

Shortly after I had clicked on Like on a bunch of tweets by https://x.com/MichaelDunwort1, they sent me a DM.

99 out of 100 DMs that I've ever received on Twitter are scammers. Usually once I do a bit more research on them, I figure out they are scammers, block/mute them and move on.

In this case, a web search found this topic as the only match with bitcoin address 1PE3udPhhcSP4RAkVVuTPwQrGidVtkcaA4.

Does anyone know if https://x.com/MichaelDunwort1 is legit? Either that is a legit account and he's a crafty bitcoiner, or scammers have reached a whole new level of ingenuity.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on July 25, 2023, 10:37:50 PM

hi dave, but what's the point in doing so? if he locked 5 btc in the address placed with a timelock to a forever future, he himself can't have it.
Let's say he can, so can the others who it was sold to with the private key.

Tons of reasons, controlling their own impulse, keeping it for long term investment, etc. The whole point of a time lock address is to ensure that no one can have access to the coins without waiting until the specified time frame. Private keys are not meant to be sold or traded, it is not wise to purchase any private keys. It would just mean that multiple people will have access to the coins when the time comes and whoever moves the coins first when the timelock expires will get the coins.

Jason Brendon

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Quote

Think about it, how many people are greedy and just don't know that this really cannot be undone.
If the person who created this and sent the funds to it sold it 100 times between $500 and $1000 they have made a lot of money.
Sigh....humanity.....

-Dave

hi dave, but what's the point in doing so? if he locked 5 btc in the address placed with a timelock to a forever future, he himself can't have it.
Let's say he can, so can the others who it was sold to with the private key.

Jason Brendon

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 08, 2023, 11:31:04 PM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 08:04:03 PM

I don't think so. Electrum wallet has a feature that places a timelock.

On transactions, not on addresses.

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 08:09:53 PM

Cannot someone send money to the merchant's address with a vicious timelock that the merchant may not be able to spend it this life?

Not possible.

If I create a timelocked transaction which cannot be spent for 100 years, then I won't be able to broadcast that transaction since all nodes will reject it until after the timelock has expired. The transaction won't be accepted to the mempool, so the transaction won't even show up as unconfirmed (let alone as confirmed) - it will simply be rejected as invalid. As far as the merchant is concerned, you haven't paid and so they won't release the goods.

Ok... that explains everything. Thanks a lot. I was worrying, apparently i was wrong Grin

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 08:04:03 PM

I don't think so. Electrum wallet has a feature that places a timelock.

On transactions, not on addresses.

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 08:09:53 PM

Cannot someone send money to the merchant's address with a vicious timelock that the merchant may not be able to spend it this life?

Not possible.

If I create a timelocked transaction which cannot be spent for 100 years, then I won't be able to broadcast that transaction since all nodes will reject it until after the timelock has expired. The transaction won't be accepted to the mempool, so the transaction won't even show up as unconfirmed (let alone as confirmed) - it will simply be rejected as invalid. As far as the merchant is concerned, you haven't paid and so they won't release the goods.

Jason Brendon

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 08, 2023, 10:12:15 AM

Quote from: NotATether on June 08, 2023, 07:41:45 AM

It will simplify things for them to have a "no timelocked transactions" policy on their terms of service, and an "if you send us a timelocked transaction, we will not process it so please email us for refund instructions" clause.

You are confusing different concepts here, I think. There are timelocked addresses and timelocked transactions.

In the case being discussed here, the address itself is timelocked by nature of the OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY code in the script. Only the person who owns the address can set up an address in this way. Any and all coins sent to such an address cannot be spent until after the specified block height or Unix time.

Yes, exactly! That's what i was trying to say. Not the address, but the nLockTime field in the transaction.
But what do you mean by:

Quote

since timelocked transactions cannot be broadcast until after the timelock has expired, if someone tries to send money this way either the merchant will receive it normally, or the transaction won't broadcast at all.

Cannot someone send money to the merchant's address with a vicious timelock that the merchant may not be able to spend it this life?

Thanks!

Jason Brendon

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Quote from: ABCbits on June 08, 2023, 06:52:11 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 05:16:33 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 08, 2023, 05:08:59 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

This shit can happen.

How can this shit happen by mistake? You can't just "find out there's a timelock", you need to consciously specify it.

How do you mean. I have an address to which people send money. I see money come in from my wallet, but at that moment i don't know if a timelock is on it, do I?

If the wallet generate P2PK, P2PKH or P2WPKH address i can be 100% sure there's no timelock or other custom condition to spend it. On top of that, there are almost no Bitcoin wallet which support timelock feature.

I don't think so. Electrum wallet has a feature that places a timelock.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: NotATether on June 08, 2023, 07:41:45 AM

It will simplify things for them to have a "no timelocked transactions" policy on their terms of service, and an "if you send us a timelocked transaction, we will not process it so please email us for refund instructions" clause.

You are confusing different concepts here, I think. There are timelocked addresses and timelocked transactions.

In the case being discussed here, the address itself is timelocked by nature of the OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY code in the script. Only the person who owns the address can set up an address in this way. Any and all coins sent to such an address cannot be spent until after the specified block height or Unix time.

Then you have transactions which can be timelocked by nature of the nLockTime field in the transaction. Only the person(s) who is creating the transaction can set up a transaction in this way. The transaction cannot be broadcast until after the specified block height or Unix time is reached.

A merchant doens't need a "no timelocked transactions" policy. They simply won't set up a timelocked address locking themselves out of their own coins (because why would they?), and since timelocked transactions cannot be broadcast until after the timelock has expired, if someone tries to send money this way either the merchant will receive it normally, or the transaction won't broadcast at all.

LoyceV

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Quote from: NotATether on June 08, 2023, 07:41:45 AM

Merchants should not be accepting time-locked txid's for usual business, and should just refund any that they receive to the original address(es) - though that becomes more complicated if there are multiple inputs and outputs, so it's not automatically clear where the refund should go to. In that case, it's best for the customer to write an email to the merchant with the txid they sent, as for a refund, and supply their address.

It will simplify things for them to have a "no timelocked transactions" policy on their terms of service, and an "if you send us a timelocked transaction, we will not process it so please email us for refund instructions" clause.

As long as the merchant doesn't create a timelocked address, this isn't a problem, right? If the buyer has a timelocked address, he can't get an on-chain confirmation from that address.

NotATether

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Quote from: ABCbits on June 08, 2023, 06:52:11 AM

If the wallet generate P2PK, P2PKH or P2WPKH address i can be 100% sure there's no timelock or other custom condition to spend it. On top of that, there are almost no Bitcoin wallet which support timelock feature.

Pretty much only the Bitcoin Core command-line supports it. Not even their GUI wallet lets you do that.

Quote from: LoyceV on June 08, 2023, 05:42:51 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

How about this? You are busy with something and someone wants to buy something from you. And with very limited access to the network, you check your address to see, ok the funds arrived, then you released the goods but it's too late to find out there is actually a 100years timelock on it..

If your customer paid, you'll have to release the goods. It's not the customer's fault you can't access your money until the next century.

Merchants should not be accepting time-locked txid's for usual business, and should just refund any that they receive to the original address(es) - though that becomes more complicated if there are multiple inputs and outputs, so it's not automatically clear where the refund should go to. In that case, it's best for the customer to write an email to the merchant with the txid they sent, as for a refund, and supply their address.

It will simplify things for them to have a "no timelocked transactions" policy on their terms of service, and an "if you send us a timelocked transaction, we will not process it so please email us for refund instructions" clause.

ABCbits

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 05:16:33 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 08, 2023, 05:08:59 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

This shit can happen.

How can this shit happen by mistake? You can't just "find out there's a timelock", you need to consciously specify it.

How do you mean. I have an address to which people send money. I see money come in from my wallet, but at that moment i don't know if a timelock is on it, do I?

If the wallet generate P2PK, P2PKH or P2WPKH address i can be 100% sure there's no timelock or other custom condition to spend it. On top of that, there are almost no Bitcoin wallet which support timelock feature.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 05:16:33 AM

How do you mean. I have an address to which people send money. I see money come in from my wallet, but at that moment i don't know if a timelock is on it, do I?

Normal wallets don't create addresses with a timelock in it.

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

How about this? You are busy with something and someone wants to buy something from you. And with very limited access to the network, you check your address to see, ok the funds arrived, then you released the goods but it's too late to find out there is actually a 100years timelock on it..

If your customer paid, you'll have to release the goods. It's not the customer's fault you can't access your money until the next century.

Jason Brendon

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 08, 2023, 05:08:59 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

This shit can happen.

How can this shit happen by mistake? You can't just "find out there's a timelock", you need to consciously specify it.

How do you mean. I have an address to which people send money. I see money come in from my wallet, but at that moment i don't know if a timelock is on it, do I?

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 08, 2023, 04:59:11 AM

This shit can happen.

How can this shit happen by mistake? You can't just "find out there's a timelock", you need to consciously specify it.

Jason Brendon

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Activity: 162

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 08, 2023, 03:43:15 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 07, 2023, 07:29:00 PM

No, people can send funds to any address with a timelock on it.

Correct, but that doesn't affect me. There's nothing stopping anyone doing all manner of stupid things with their bitcoin, like locking it behind scripts which are impossible to ever unlock, or burning it entirely. But no one can lock up bitcoin they are sending me unless I first agree to it by creating such a timelocked address in this case (or via covenants in the future, etc.)

How about this? You are busy with something and someone wants to buy something from you. And with very limited access to the network, you check your address to see, ok the funds arrived, then you released the goods but it's too late to find out there is actually a 100years timelock on it..
This shit can happen.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 07, 2023, 07:29:00 PM

No, people can send funds to any address with a timelock on it.

Correct, but that doesn't affect me. There's nothing stopping anyone doing all manner of stupid things with their bitcoin, like locking it behind scripts which are impossible to ever unlock, or burning it entirely. But no one can lock up bitcoin they are sending me unless I first agree to it by creating such a timelocked address in this case (or via covenants in the future, etc.)

Jason Brendon

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 07, 2023, 02:16:26 AM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on June 07, 2023, 01:43:27 AM

So, how can one avoid a situation like this where people send money to your address with a vicious timelock.

That's easy to avoid: don't create addresses with a vicious timelock Wink

No, people can send funds to any address with a timelock on it.

DaveF

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 07, 2023, 01:42:17 PM

This address (39QWbnkbcPFcrJFEB6yvVDc12eX5zqVt3y) doesn't have a private key though: It has an unlocking script, the details of which I've given above. The private key needed in the script is the one belonging to the uncompressed public key in the script, which leads to the address 1PE3udPhhcSP4RAkVVuTPwQrGidVtkcaA4.

If you try to sell someone that private key, they will see an empty (although previously used) address. To lead them to the given address you'd need to first teach them about scripting. And if they can understand the script well enough to generate the given address, then they'll see through the scam.

I was leaving out the step of faking a wallet with that address in it, like the 'password protected' ones, just doing it differently. Thought it was implied. It's a look I messed up and can't get to these coins since they are time-locked, here is a script here is a wallet with the address in there. (What you can't read my mind....)

Anyway I think this particular scam has been outed, at least for now.

-Dave

o_e_l_e_o

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This address (39QWbnkbcPFcrJFEB6yvVDc12eX5zqVt3y) doesn't have a private key though: It has an unlocking script, the details of which I've given above. The private key needed in the script is the one belonging to the uncompressed public key in the script, which leads to the address 1PE3udPhhcSP4RAkVVuTPwQrGidVtkcaA4.

If you try to sell someone that private key, they will see an empty (although previously used) address. To lead them to the given address you'd need to first teach them about scripting. And if they can understand the script well enough to generate the given address, then they'll see through the scam.

DaveF

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 07, 2023, 06:25:47 AM

Second problem: the buyer won't understand how to use this private key, and thus can't easily verify it belongs to that address. Considering OP's history on this forum, I don't think he created this on his own. Which means that whoever created it spread it already. This address is mentioned on Reddit in a 2 years old post, but it doesn't add anything. I'm curious what's the story behind this.

Either a massive screwup / typo when doing something OR exactly what I said, invest BTC0.5 to get BTC2.0 as you sell it for BTC0.01 to 200 people.
I'll keep saying it, never underestimate greed and stupidity.

How many obvious scams do we see here day in and day out.
Add to that telegram and what's app and everything else I can easily see getting a couple of hundred people to pay.

-Dave

Topic: spend P2SH redeem script (Read 467 times)