Square invests 50 million USD in BTC: instrument of economic empowerment - page 2.

fillippone

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Quote from: lixer on October 12, 2020, 08:39:21 AM

I am not sure that anyone would say that the company’s 1% investment is too small, like seriously? They invested 1% of the company’s total asset which is worth $50 million, how is that a small amount? That’s a huge amount and is enough already if they decide.

It’s recommended that people should around 1% to 5% of their total assets in cryptocurrency, so they did the right thing, because even that, is a very high amount of money.

Although that for some of us, our 1% to 5% would be very useless when invested in cryptocurrency. As for those who have the money, they can go for it and keep investing , at least the community should be growing. This step can motivate other companies to take the same step.

One of the first "model" I used when I decided to buy Bitcoin was based on the question: "What happens if everyone decides to buy 1% of their financial wealth in Bitcoin?"

Well the answer is this one (updated figures):

World Adult Wealth (tln)   360
1% of such Wealth is (tln)   3.6


Circulating Bitcoin   21,000,000
This is an overstatement, but I want conservative estimates.


Bitcoin Value   3,600,000,000,000/21,000,000 equal to USD 171,428.57.

So, yes, 1% is a lot!

lixer

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I am not sure that anyone would say that the company’s 1% investment is too small, like seriously? They invested 1% of the company’s total asset which is worth $50 million, how is that a small amount? That’s a huge amount and is enough already if they decide.

It’s recommended that people should around 1% to 5% of their total assets in cryptocurrency, so they did the right thing, because even that, is a very high amount of money.

Although that for some of us, our 1% to 5% would be very useless when invested in cryptocurrency. As for those who have the money, they can go for it and keep investing , at least the community should be growing. This step can motivate other companies to take the same step.

exstasie

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Quote from: fillippone on October 11, 2020, 02:33:19 AM

Quote from: exstasie on October 10, 2020, 07:16:59 PM

Personally I'm a speculator. I came for the price swings, I stayed for the technology. I love markets and economic theory so it's hard for me to think of Bitcoin price as uninteresting.

If you want to speculate it’s plently of other regulated or not regulated asset classes to speculate on.
Probably same volatility, far less problems cashing out.

If you are reading this, am sure you think bitcoin has more interesting aspect than a long short strategy on EURUSD or TSLA.

If price is so uninteresting, why do you seem so interested in things like stock-to-flow?

I don't blame anyone for being drawn to Bitcoin's chart. There is none other like it in the world. Perhaps you simply have less appreciation for markets and economics than others, and they have less appreciation for Bitcoin's technology than you. That's okay.

Are you telling me stocks or forex have the same volatility, the same opportunities? LOL. I've been trading for a decade. I think not! I transitioned to trading crypto almost exclusively several years ago because the opportunities are exponentially larger and more reliable than any other market I had ever traded.

fillippone

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Quote from: exstasie on October 10, 2020, 07:16:59 PM

<...>
Personally I'm a speculator. I came for the price swings, I stayed for the technology. I love markets and economic theory so it's hard for me to think of Bitcoin price as uninteresting.

If you want to speculate it’s plently of other regulated or not regulated asset classes to speculate on.
Probably same volatility, far less problems cashing out.

If you are reading this, am sure you think bitcoin has more interesting aspect than a long short strategy on EURUSD or TSLA.

Back on topic now please!

Dorodha

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Square is investing 50 million in BTC to determine economic empowerment because looking at the structure of the tax system the main source of revenue collection is value added tax. Then the place of direct tax or income tax while our revenue collection through international trade tariffs is comparatively declining it will further decline. Because the liberalization of the international trade system will further reduce the income from this sector. there is no way to rely on this sector to increase revenue collection in the future.

jaysabi

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★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Quote from: fillippone on October 10, 2020, 07:17:29 AM

Quote from: adzino on October 10, 2020, 02:10:53 AM

<...>
Though why is cashapp going to be the next amazon for delivering bitcoin? The last time I used cashapp with crypto currency buy/sell enabled, it wasn't user friendly at all.

I have never used Cashapp because I am not living in one of their markets. I didn't say they are going to be the "Amazon of Bitcoin", I was only trying to figure out why the market is pricing them with those borderline-absurd multipliers.

It's because of the revenue growth rate. No tech company undergoing rapid growth has a "sane" PE ratio when they're redeploying all their cashflow into the growth of the business. Shopify, Mercado Libre, Square, Twilio and many others all have stratospheric (or negative) PE ratios and if you were using the insane PE ratio as a reason not to invest, you missed out on 10x returns on each of these over the last 5 years, or in the case of shopify 50x returns over the last 5 years. Traditional valuation metrics are pretty useless for measuring fast growing companies like these.

exstasie

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Quote from: fillippone on October 10, 2020, 06:11:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: fillippone on October 10, 2020, 05:53:02 PM

Price is by far the less interesting feature of bitcoin.

We are here to make money and get rich thts Main reason btc 100k and cash out money in pocket That's the biggest goal of cryptocurrency

I have never been in a so strong disagreement with someone in this forum. That is your respected opinion. Don’t think it is universally true.

It's not universally true but let's not kid ourselves. There are a whole lot of speculators and straight up gamblers in our midst. That's why altcoins, ICOs, DeFi, etc. blew up so much too. In particular, the newbies who enter in the later stages of bull markets tend to be the "get rich quick" types. Sometimes I wonder just what percentage of Bitcoin users people like Polo7 represent. It's a non-negligible amount, I'm sure.

Personally I'm a speculator. I came for the price swings, I stayed for the technology. I love markets and economic theory so it's hard for me to think of Bitcoin price as uninteresting.

DooMAD

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Quote from: ?? on ??

We are here to make money and get rich thts Main reason btc 100k and cash out money in pocket That's the biggest goal of ~~cryptocurrency~~ SPECULATORS and GAMBLERS

FTFY.

Profit is the icing on the cake for some people. The ideology is far more important to me. You haven't been here that long, but even if you stick around for 10 years or more, you likely still wouldn't understand everyone's motives or goals. Each person is different. Just because you're hanging around to try and make a quick buck, doesn't mean everyone is.

I haven't just invested money. I'm invested conceptually.

fillippone

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: fillippone on October 10, 2020, 05:53:02 PM

<...>
Price is by far the less interesting feature of bitcoin.

We are here to make money and get rich thts Main reason btc 100k and cash out money in pocket That's the biggest goal of cryptocurrency

I have never been in a so strong disagreement with someone in this forum. That is your respected opinion. Don’t think it is universally true.

fillippone

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Quote from: Polo7 on October 10, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Can translate for average person what You mean?
Are we getting Rich or not by holding btc?
That's all we want to know ;

You might be in the wrong place then.
Allow me to use a beautiful tweet of one of my favourite bitcoiner (flaws included):

Quote

Bitcoin isn't a get rich quick scheme, it's a don't get poor slowly scheme.

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1171847107243859968?s=21

Price is by far the less interesting feature of bitcoin.

Polo7

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Quote from: Porfirii on October 10, 2020, 04:08:25 PM

Many people state on twitter that the 50 million have nothing to do compared with the amount that MicroStrategy invested recently, but comparisons are hateful.

I think it is really good news as it serves as an example for many other companies that may make a bold investment or just gain some awareness with these same news.

I hope many others follow their path

There is ways to know!
Are they cash out just USA money in their pockets.
Or they turn worthless USA dollars into worthed btc.

All we need to know is who is selling them and with what money they buy it.

Conclusion: if the big guys are just Behind the square or cashpp and invest their own money then the btc will go up and USA dollar down.
If they just use squares and cashh app as middle way and they actually Don't invest but just cash out btc....

All we need to do is follow the money Simple:)

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Porfirii on October 10, 2020, 04:08:25 PM

Many people state on twitter that the 50 million have nothing to do compared with the amount that MicroStrategy invested recently, but comparisons are hateful.

it's 20% of the amount MSTR invested in fiat terms---even more in BTC terms since square got a better price on their coins. that's not an insignificant amount IMO. there's obviously no point comparing either. every company has a different balance sheet and different amounts of disposable capital.

Quote from: DooMAD on October 10, 2020, 03:54:20 PM

Quote from: Polo7 on October 10, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Are we getting Rich or not by holding btc?
That's all we want to know ;

You mean that's all you want to know. Some people are here to expand their knowledge and understanding. Not everyone is looking for shortcuts. Also, be careful when asking for advice if you aren't in a position to verify what you're being told.

indeed, looking for financial advice on an internet forum---probably not the smartest move. Cheesy

Porfirii

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Many people state on twitter that the 50 million have nothing to do compared with the amount that MicroStrategy invested recently, but comparisons are hateful.

I think it is really good news as it serves as an example for many other companies that may make a bold investment or just gain some awareness with these same news.

I hope many others follow their path

imstillthebest

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Quote from: Polo7 on October 10, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Can translate for average person what You mean?
Are we getting Rich or not by holding btc?
That's all we want to know ;

this depends on you or to the people that hodls a btc if what is he capable of . are you or are they smart to say that btc will grow because of its usefullness , or are you or are they lazy enough to not hodl for long . you should know it by yourself if what group you belong .

Quote

Square invests 50 million USD in BTC: instrument of economic empowerment

i thought this was square enix , the game company hehe but i found out that its a different company . this can be the reason for the latest pump that we feel now on btc . btc is out of 11k now going to 12 and 13k .

DooMAD

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Quote from: Polo7 on October 10, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Can translate for average person what You mean?
Are we getting Rich or not by holding btc?

Why do you think anyone can tell you that with any accuracy? There are no guarantees. If someone gives you a straight yes or no answer to that question, they're only pretending they know for sure. You might get lucky, you might not. That's why it's called speculation.

Quote from: Polo7 on October 10, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

That's all we want to know ;

You mean that's all you want to know. Some people are here to expand their knowledge and understanding. Not everyone is looking for shortcuts. Also, be careful when asking for advice if you aren't in a position to verify what you're being told. It's worth pointing out that sometimes, when people think they've found a shortcut, they actually end up going down the wrong path and getting completely lost in the wilderness. Don't be one of those people who follow the advice of others without learning to think for yourself. An appropriate idiom for that kind of reckless behaviour would be "A fool and their money are easily parted".

Polo7

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Quote from: fillippone on October 10, 2020, 12:10:48 PM

Quote from: sheenshane on October 10, 2020, 10:17:54 AM

Quote from: Cnut237 on October 10, 2020, 07:28:44 AM

Quote from: fillippone on October 08, 2020, 11:48:58 AM

They invested 1% of their total assets. I think this is something every CFO should be looking at, given the highly asymmetrical returns of a bitcoin investment.

It would seem to be a sensible strategy. I've been surprised that this isn't more common. Whilst big investors can have a tendency to be risk-averse, which might keep them away from bitcoin, it's also true that every investment is a gamble, so why not test the waters by buying in with at least (in percentage terms) a small position? Perhaps it's just that they don't want any negative PR from associating with what is still sometimes seen in the mainstream as a counter-cultural and even potentially criminal asset class.

IMO, isn't a surprise.
<...>

I do agree, but I disagree on the rationale.
Now that two listed companies showed that it is possible to hold bitcoin, I guess every CFO will look at the possibility to hedge the future debasement scenario (just remember how skyrocketing the FED balance sheet went during last months).
Buying 1% of free reserve of Bitcoin would hypothetically expose to a total loss of 1% (do you really see BTC going to zero?) while exposing the firm to a potential 100X upside in the case of a debasement.
Just remember when Ray Dalio bought a put on the SPX with 1% premium? Basically the same thing, being BTC a put option on the USD.
This is a low hanging fruit waiting to be picked up.

Can translate for average person what You mean?
Are we getting Rich or not by holding btc?
That's all we want to know ;

fillippone

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Quote from: sheenshane on October 10, 2020, 10:17:54 AM

Quote from: Cnut237 on October 10, 2020, 07:28:44 AM

Quote from: fillippone on October 08, 2020, 11:48:58 AM

They invested 1% of their total assets. I think this is something every CFO should be looking at, given the highly asymmetrical returns of a bitcoin investment.

It would seem to be a sensible strategy. I've been surprised that this isn't more common. Whilst big investors can have a tendency to be risk-averse, which might keep them away from bitcoin, it's also true that every investment is a gamble, so why not test the waters by buying in with at least (in percentage terms) a small position? Perhaps it's just that they don't want any negative PR from associating with what is still sometimes seen in the mainstream as a counter-cultural and even potentially criminal asset class.

IMO, isn't a surprise.
<...>

I do agree, but I disagree on the rationale.
Now that two listed companies showed that it is possible to hold bitcoin, I guess every CFO will look at the possibility to hedge the future debasement scenario (just remember how skyrocketing the FED balance sheet went during last months).
Buying 1% of free reserve of Bitcoin would hypothetically expose to a total loss of 1% (do you really see BTC going to zero?) while exposing the firm to a potential 100X upside in the case of a debasement.
Just remember when Ray Dalio bought a put on the SPX with 1% premium? Basically the same thing, being BTC a put option on the USD.
This is a low hanging fruit waiting to be picked up.

sheenshane

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Quote from: Cnut237 on October 10, 2020, 07:28:44 AM

Quote from: fillippone on October 08, 2020, 11:48:58 AM

They invested 1% of their total assets. I think this is something every CFO should be looking at, given the highly asymmetrical returns of a bitcoin investment.

It would seem to be a sensible strategy. I've been surprised that this isn't more common. Whilst big investors can have a tendency to be risk-averse, which might keep them away from bitcoin, it's also true that every investment is a gamble, so why not test the waters by buying in with at least (in percentage terms) a small position? Perhaps it's just that they don't want any negative PR from associating with what is still sometimes seen in the mainstream as a counter-cultural and even potentially criminal asset class.

IMO, isn't a surprise.
Any company would always want to secure it's assets and Bitcoin is the only asset that doesn't get affected by the central bank.
It's value depends only on it's availability and demand and because of this companies like Square will give cryptocurrencies a huge impact both in global acceptance and value.

It could be an advantage for crypto investors and hodlers because it only that little by little we are being accepted globally and publicly. In fact, it may also cause a shortage in supply of bitcoins if companies like Square would buy a larger amount, though it may increase the value but still it will affect small-time investors in time as they may not be able to cope up when these companies turned into big whales and started to eat small fishes.

Cnut237

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Quote from: fillippone on October 08, 2020, 11:48:58 AM

They invested 1% of their total assets. I think this is something every CFO should be looking at, given the highly asymmetrical returns of a bitcoin investment.

It would seem to be a sensible strategy. I've been surprised that this isn't more common. Whilst big investors can have a tendency to be risk-averse, which might keep them away from bitcoin, it's also true that every investment is a gamble, so why not test the waters by buying in with at least (in percentage terms) a small position? Perhaps it's just that they don't want any negative PR from associating with what is still sometimes seen in the mainstream as a counter-cultural and even potentially criminal asset class.

fillippone

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Quote from: adzino on October 10, 2020, 02:10:53 AM

<...>
Though why is cashapp going to be the next amazon for delivering bitcoin? The last time I used cashapp with crypto currency buy/sell enabled, it wasn't user friendly at all.

I have never used Cashapp because I am not living in one of their markets. I didn't say they are going to be the "Amazon of Bitcoin", I was only trying to figure out why the market is pricing them with those borderline-absurd multipliers.

Topic: Square invests 50 million USD in BTC: instrument of economic empowerment - page 2. (Read 802 times)