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Topic: Stabilized Bitcoin using eMunie economics - page 3. (Read 4317 times)

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 02:05:41 PM
#67
easier to report this topic to be moved to the altcoin category, as its not bitcoin. and all fake bitcoin tests yielded fake results, purely done to try getting to talk about their altcoin on the main bitcoin category (subtly)

No it wasn't, I spent time setting up the test to behave like Bitcoin, time I could of used on other things as I thought it would be interesting for all to see how Bitcoin would behave with this applied.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
#66
So you endorse censorship?

Do you endorse @CfB's "trinary logic"?

(simple question - which others are awaiting your reply on)


Heh ok I'm not playing this game.

I'll come back with a professor.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
February 09, 2016, 02:03:49 PM
#65
easier to report this topic to be moved to the altcoin category, as its not bitcoin. and all fake bitcoin tests yielding fake results, purely done to try getting to talk about their altcoin on the main bitcoin category by subtly talking about bitcoin.

but i do hope they do have some utility in teir own economy. but definetly doesnt belong in the bitcoin category
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
February 09, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
#64
So you endorse censorship?

Do you endorse @CfB's "trinary logic"?

(simple question - which others are awaiting your reply on)
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 02:01:20 PM
#63
Well - if your project's topic starts to look much like @CfB's project in terms of the way that posts are being handled then I think you should seriously question whether you are doing the right thing.


So you endorse censorship?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
February 09, 2016, 01:59:53 PM
#62
Well - if your project's topic starts to look much like @CfB's project in terms of the way that posts are being handled then I think you should seriously question whether you are doing the right thing.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 01:58:15 PM
#61
Surely to get backing I need to present my idea first...which is what Im doing here and seemingly getting scolded for it.

Okay - but I would not have thought that this forum would be the appropriate place to present your idea (as I doubt hardly any such people would be looking at this forum).

Also - it is starting to look like you have a bunch of shills here.

If you want to be taken seriously I think you should perhaps ask them to tone it down.


This forum is relevant to crypto (which is the field I work in) and Bitcoin (which is the subject of the test), why would it not be relevant?  Huh

Why would I ask them to do that, they are free to post on whatever they like, as it happens they are avid eMunie supporters and are attempting to assist in explaining and answering the questions raised.

I'm certainly not going to start ordering people what they can and can't post, just in case others look upon me in a bad light for it when the topic of conversation is a legitimate one.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
February 09, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
#60
So answering questions is now considered bad form?  What a concept. 

If you were just answering questions (that I'd actually asked you) then that would be totally okay - but I actually haven't even asked you a single question (I was asking the guy in charge).
full member
Activity: 179
Merit: 100
February 09, 2016, 01:54:43 PM
#59
Surely to get backing I need to present my idea first...which is what Im doing here and seemingly getting scolded for it.

Okay - but I would not have thought that this forum would be the appropriate place to present your idea (as I doubt hardly any such people would be looking at this forum).

Also - it is starting to look like you have a bunch of shills here.

If you want to be taken seriously I think you should perhaps ask them to tone it down.


So answering questions is now considered bad form?  What a concept. 
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
February 09, 2016, 01:50:16 PM
#58
Surely to get backing I need to present my idea first...which is what Im doing here and seemingly getting scolded for it.

Okay - but I would not have thought that this forum would be the appropriate place to present your idea (as I doubt hardly any such people would be looking at this forum).

Also - it is starting to look like you have a bunch of shills here.

If you want to be taken seriously I think you should perhaps ask them to tone it down.
full member
Activity: 179
Merit: 100
February 09, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
#57
So isn't taking the next logical step in rationally implementing the Quantity Theory of Money (first proposed in the 80s when technology would have been limited for a useful implementation) considered relatively the same thing as having it supported by a sizable population of academia?

I am just wondering why there don't seem to be any economists (Hungarian or otherwise) backing your model.


Well, Friedman died 10 years ago, but that's irrelevant to the facts of his published theory.  I'm guessing since Einstein is dead light can now easily go faster than 'c.'
full member
Activity: 147
Merit: 100
February 09, 2016, 01:49:16 PM
#56
Another issue that faces traditional monetary systems is that the feedback loop is full of delays.  By the time the controlling authority has all the information about what the economy is doing and makes a decision on what the best course of action is, the economy is already doing something totally different.

In a system such as this, there isn't that large delay, its to the minute (or even second) information on economic behavior, thus the reaction to it will be more relevant and be more efficient.

It's hard to say - the way China has been trying to handle their share market melt down is to shut it down nearly every other day (and that isn't working if you hadn't noticed).

I would agree that there is little point in "delaying things" as you just end up with a "train-wreck in slow motion" (which is exactly what we are seeing in regards to the Chinese stock market).

But overall if the sentiment is overwhelmingly negative there is really nothing you can do to stop the downward trend.


I don't think that the Chinese economy can be compared to eMunie at all. The Chinese economy is an extremely manipulated house of cards build from an insane amount of (often hidden) credit.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 01:49:01 PM
#55
So isn't taking the next logical step in rationally implementing the Quantity Theory of Money (first proposed in the 80s when technology would have been limited for a useful implementation) considered relatively the same thing as having it supported by a sizable population of academia?

I am just wondering why there don't seem to be any economists (Hungarian or otherwise) backing your model.

(if your idea is backed by the so-called Hungarian's then why are they not being supportive of it?)


Surely to get backing I need to present my idea first...which is what Im doing here and seemingly getting scolded for it.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 01:48:05 PM
#54

I didn't alter the sentiment of the trades though, the sentiment of every single one of those 58M trades is exactly as it was.


but by changing the trades, (making the $1000 never happen) you are changing the sentiment, which then effects future sentiment. and that is the exact problem, by not considering that sentiment will change because of your actions. you have failed to take that into account..

as ciyam said.. it wont work with live data as that involves live human emotion and change of sentiment in reaction to your model

Did you read what he wrote?  The $1000 trade DID happen.

http://imgur.com/cMIHT2P
seems like over 5 years of your model it never reached $1000

Yes, the baseline (start) cost was set to $0.10.  The btc prices were then normalized to this value since that is the expected start value for eMunie (tentatively).

Actually the start cost of $0.1 was based on the first every trade of BTC at that price, from Mt.Gox.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 01:47:12 PM
#53

I didn't alter the sentiment of the trades though, the sentiment of every single one of those 58M trades is exactly as it was.


but by changing the trades, (making the $1000 never happen) you are changing the sentiment, which then effects future sentiment. and that is the exact problem, by not considering that sentiment will change because of your actions. you have failed to take that into account..

as ciyam said.. it wont work with live data as that involves live human emotion and change of sentiment in reaction to your model, and thus using historic data after the first day of changing it. makes all further days of historic data irrelevant

your model would only work on a centralised control of currency where you are the only exchange and hoarding environment available

The sentiment doesn't change!

That trade even though it is now only at $1 is processed as if it was at $1000.
full member
Activity: 179
Merit: 100
February 09, 2016, 01:46:59 PM
#52

I didn't alter the sentiment of the trades though, the sentiment of every single one of those 58M trades is exactly as it was.


but by changing the trades, (making the $1000 never happen) you are changing the sentiment, which then effects future sentiment. and that is the exact problem, by not considering that sentiment will change because of your actions. you have failed to take that into account..

as ciyam said.. it wont work with live data as that involves live human emotion and change of sentiment in reaction to your model

Did you read what he wrote?  The $1000 trade DID happen.

http://imgur.com/cMIHT2P
seems like over 5 years of your model it never reached $1000

Yes, the baseline (start) cost was set to $0.10.  The btc prices were then normalized to this value since that is the expected start value for eMunie (tentatively).
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
February 09, 2016, 01:46:44 PM
#51
So isn't taking the next logical step in rationally implementing the Quantity Theory of Money (first proposed in the 80s when technology would have been limited for a useful implementation) considered relatively the same thing as having it supported by a sizable population of academia?

I am just wondering why there don't seem to be any economists (Hungarian or otherwise) backing your model.

(if your idea is backed by the so-called Hungarian's then why are they not being supportive of it?)
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
February 09, 2016, 01:46:03 PM
#50
Keep at it Fuserleer! Always nice to see something new..  Smiley

And if inflation (ie. new supply) is distributed equitably and fairly across all users based on their existing holdings then the net effect on them is zero.  

So - accounts can have the total amount of EMU increased, to ensure that the overall price stays stable ?

I may have 10 EMU, and that is worth $1. But if the price of EMU halves, I will have 20 EMU, but still $1..  (I think ?)

Can you only increase EMU per user, and remove EMU from the Buffer ?

What happens if the Buffer is empty and you still need to remove more coins.. ? (global demurrage ?)


Almost but from the wrong angle Smiley

The price of EMU has no bearing on how much you hold, if you hold 10EMU and the price drops from $1 to $0.50 you still have 10EMU.

The demand of EMU does have effect though, so if the price of EMU is going up due to demand, and there is not enough supply, new supply is created and distributed in a number of ways.

One of those ways is "dividend on balance" (or stake), so if there was 10% new supply created, you would receive a 10% dividend on your balance.  Now you have 11 EMU, not 10.

Its preferable when attempting to maintain a stable price, that absorbing new incoming value is done by an increase in quantity, and not the price of each unit.

Quote
Can you only increase EMU per user, and remove EMU from the Buffer ?

Yes if the buffer has an excess, then it will not be allocated a portion of more supply, only users will (getting a bit out of the realms of the discussion here, but it was a good question!)

Quote
What happens if the Buffer is empty and you still need to remove more coins.. ? (global demurrage ?)

The buffer can always remove EMU from supply (fill sell trades) as it is able to do the conversion of EMU to another token at will and "in place"

Example, you are selling 1 EMU for 1 USD.  The buffer has no EMU and no USD tokens, it can take your 1 EMU, convert it to 1 USD token, and send it back to you.

You can then exchange that 1 USD token for a real USD dollar via the TRAID network (again a bit out of realm for this topic, but I want to be through)

Later the person that exchanged you 1 real USD for your USD token wants to by an EMU, he posts a trade and the process repeats, converting that USD token to EMU if possible, or your trade of that USD token sits on the exchange until someone other than the buffer comes and fills it (at this point, the buffer is not able to intervene so the prices run unhindered until it can).


full member
Activity: 179
Merit: 100
February 09, 2016, 01:45:08 PM
#49
For a start - where is a "professor of economics" that backs your theory?
(presumably you would at least have one)

So I need to have a Professor that endorses my idea before I should present it?  Roll Eyes Shocked

If you look at what is going on in this field then I would say the more respected academics that you have to endorse your ideas the better (you think it is acceptable to have zero?).

Otherwise should we say that you and @CfB are equals then?


So isn't taking the next logical step in rationally implementing the Quantity Theory of Money (first proposed in the 80s when technology would have been limited for a useful implementation) considered relatively the same thing as having it supported by a sizable population of academia?

legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
February 09, 2016, 01:44:37 PM
#48

Did you read what he wrote?  The $1000 trade DID happen.

Here's the view if BTC was using the eMunie economics method (Baseline start cost $0.10): http://imgur.com/cMIHT2P

min/max btc (from the chart above): $2.22/$1163 (delta: 1160.78 or 1160780.00%)

min/max emu (from the chart above): $0.09832/$0.10322 (delta: 0.0049 or 4.9%)
seems like over 5 years of your model it never reached $1000

anyway.. goodluck with your emu coin.. it wont work on the freemarket, but may be a good demonstration for the fiat centralised and controlled economy
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