Stake.com does not deem crypto earnings as legal

Hispo

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Quote from: shasan on October 25, 2022, 02:35:00 PM

Quote from: Hispo on October 20, 2022, 01:36:35 PM

-snip-

...If anyone wants to show the proof from crypto then it can be manipulated as there should have no signature, no seal, or nothing which can make it unique.

That should not be a problem for an exchange whatsoever, all exchanges use cryptography in a daily basis.
They could easily issue documents to clarify the origin of the earnings of their clients, then they would make public their public key (or Bitcoin address) used to sign the documents of origin for the people or organizations to check the integrity of the document.

So there is no excuse for the exchanges to help their users with cases like the OP is going through, just sign and verified by Stake. Huh

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Quote from: Haunebu on October 16, 2022, 01:51:41 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The thing is, OP is already at the level 3 and why there’s a sudden change?
Probably OP tried to deposit huge amount of money and that trigger the stake to investigate the account. Maybe Stake can do something about this, they can easily know if OP is a real gambler who already spend a lot of money on the platform. There’s no way for OP to let go of that money, the only option is to negotiate or comply with the requirements, show them your proof of trades and maybe that can work.

I don't understand why some of you are looking for excuses to defend Stake in this case when op already provided sufficient proof to verify his statements against them. Forcing him to provide proof of funds in this manner is odd.

They should provide a reasonable explanation as to why they feel that he should provide more proof in order to justify their stance if you ask me.

I see this as hypocricy. If stake could be able to pay out winners big amount that is more than hundred thousand dollars they should understand that it could be someone's source of income. We know that some crypto earnings are just like gambling which means the return is not always steady and assured but if anyone can make a living out of it and show proof that they earn legally. Stake has no option than to release their money.
Stake pays upto 80 people in this forum not less than 50 dollars every week and some people earn upto 150 dollars in the campaign weekly. This is a good source of income that anyone cannot deny.

shasan

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Quote from: Hispo on October 20, 2022, 01:36:35 PM

The weirdest part in my opinion is the fact that people behind Stake decisions should be aware that the cryptocurrency community is not only about technology or gambling but also about speculation and they should keep in mind that many of their clients could perfectly life off programming or trading. Trading is such an important part of our ecosystem that it does not make sense for them not to take it as an valid source of income.

We can argue that Stake need to comply with the law and that is okey, but they are also need to take care and look whether legitimate clients are having a good experience, in this case, those who get profit with trading.

If OP is honest and can follow my advise, then that should be enough to convince Stake he is not doing anything illegal.

Almost all the earnings finally go to the bank and for that reason, if a gambler provides a bank statement then there should have nothing wrong. If anyone wants to show the proof from crypto then it can be manipulated as there should have no signature, no seal, or nothing which can make it unique.

Hispo

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Quote from: coolcoinz on October 18, 2022, 03:17:45 PM

Quote from: Hispo on October 16, 2022, 04:06:00 PM

-snip-

Sure, he probably could try that, but the question is: why does it have to come to this? Why should he be forced by a platform to show how he traded and where? It's not their job to demand him to show the whole journey the coins in his possession went through. He doesn't have to do that and he still should be able to request the return of his money.

Some businesses have a rule in place that if you don't verify yourself you're unable to withdraw profits earned on the platform, but you are and should be able to (at least according to the EU law) get your own deposit back.

...

The weirdest part in my opinion is the fact that people behind Stake decisions should be aware that the cryptocurrency community is not only about technology or gambling but also about speculation and they should keep in mind that many of their clients could perfectly life off programming or trading. Trading is such an important part of our ecosystem that it does not make sense for them not to take it as an valid source of income.

We can argue that Stake need to comply with the law and that is okey, but they are also need to take care and look whether legitimate clients are having a good experience, in this case, those who get profit with trading.

If OP is honest and can follow my advise, then that should be enough to convince Stake he is not doing anything illegal.

bocyaj

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I had some games in Stake website in dice game.Dice should be played with extra care in this website.Because if you use the auto bet for certain number of times, it may reduce your funds to zero. I had loss of 20 dollars by using the auto bet of 40 times in dice game. My full 20 dollar was become a zero dollars.Extra care for the game is very important in this website.Don't play with lazy here.Not only this website, most gambling website teach you lesson.If you made lazy play.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on October 18, 2022, 03:17:45 PM

Quote from: Hispo on October 16, 2022, 04:06:00 PM

OP have you tried to summit to Stake proof of your positions and movements on the exchange you trade on?
That should be enough to demonstrate you earned your money through trading in a legal platform which also have your KYC. You could even ask the exchange costumer service to provide a document which states your lawful profits obtained by trading, this document could even include your KYC information which should match with the information held by Stake, in my opinion, that should be enough to convince Stake you are not doing anything ilegal.

Also, this topic makes me wonder: could Bitcoin earned by partaking in Campaigns on the forum lead to the same problems?
Would the spreadsheets issued by campaign managers be enough to prove origin of funds? Or would be necessary a document issued by the casino behind campaign itself to provide such proof of participation?

Sure, he probably could try that, but the question is: why does it have to come to this? Why should he be forced by a platform to show how he traded and where? It's not their job to demand him to show the whole journey the coins in his possession went through. He doesn't have to do that and he still should be able to request the return of his money.

It is possible that stake saw problems on the fund. I believe OP accounts is temporarily suspended, and will be unlock if he submit the needed requirement. It is too early to say that the casino is stealing the person's fund since we do not know the course of action of stake if @OP failed the needed KYC.

Quote from: coolcoinz on October 18, 2022, 03:17:45 PM

Some businesses have a rule in place that if you don't verify yourself you're unable to withdraw profits earned on the platform, but you are and should be able to (at least according to the EU law) get your own deposit back.

This should be the end scenario if ever @OP failed to the KYC procedure on source of fund.

Quote from: coolcoinz on October 18, 2022, 03:17:45 PM

We don't know everything, but I haven't seen any accusations towards OP from Stake about his coins being stolen or tainted like some people suspected. Sure, I'd agree with them if the coins were from a recent hack, or OP was suspected to be a scammer who made another account on the platform he once stole from. So far it looks like he did not submit documents required for KYC and they instead of preventing him from playing, blocked his withdrawals.

I think staked has sent a message to the OP that they are suspecting OP's account of possible money laundering, that is why they are asking of the source of fund.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: Hispo on October 16, 2022, 04:06:00 PM

OP have you tried to summit to Stake proof of your positions and movements on the exchange you trade on?
That should be enough to demonstrate you earned your money through trading in a legal platform which also have your KYC. You could even ask the exchange costumer service to provide a document which states your lawful profits obtained by trading, this document could even include your KYC information which should match with the information held by Stake, in my opinion, that should be enough to convince Stake you are not doing anything ilegal.

Also, this topic makes me wonder: could Bitcoin earned by partaking in Campaigns on the forum lead to the same problems?
Would the spreadsheets issued by campaign managers be enough to prove origin of funds? Or would be necessary a document issued by the casino behind campaign itself to provide such proof of participation?

Sure, he probably could try that, but the question is: why does it have to come to this? Why should he be forced by a platform to show how he traded and where? It's not their job to demand him to show the whole journey the coins in his possession went through. He doesn't have to do that and he still should be able to request the return of his money.

Some businesses have a rule in place that if you don't verify yourself you're unable to withdraw profits earned on the platform, but you are and should be able to (at least according to the EU law) get your own deposit back.

We don't know everything, but I haven't seen any accusations towards OP from Stake about his coins being stolen or tainted like some people suspected. Sure, I'd agree with them if the coins were from a recent hack, or OP was suspected to be a scammer who made another account on the platform he once stole from. So far it looks like he did not submit documents required for KYC and they instead of preventing him from playing, blocked his withdrawals.

passwordnow

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: passwordnow on October 15, 2022, 06:06:06 PM

It could be huge deposits that he can't justify from which source it came and the stake is looking for a legitimate source that's not related to crypto.
And if that's not acceptable to them, OP has got no choice but just to leave it since he has already asked and contested about it. There's no way to change that decision from them. You can still gamble with other casinos if you want to OP but, there might be some really huge thing as to why they've banned your account related to your deposits/withdrawals.

The thing is, OP is already at the level 3 and why there’s a sudden change?
Probably OP tried to deposit huge amount of money and that trigger the stake to investigate the account. Maybe Stake can do something about this, they can easily know if OP is a real gambler who already spend a lot of money on the platform. There’s no way for OP to let go of that money, the only option is to negotiate or comply with the requirements, show them your proof of trades and maybe that can work.

It seems that they can't do anything with it anymore and OP has to deal with their decision and that's it. In this case, negotiations can still do but if they've got placed and given the final decision already, then the affected gambler has to accept it lightly whatever the decision is.
There's really something that has triggered them with OPs, knowing that he's got that level already, there should be some benefits and privileges but stake can freely honor it or not.

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Quote from: Haunebu on October 16, 2022, 01:51:41 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The thing is, OP is already at the level 3 and why there’s a sudden change?
Probably OP tried to deposit huge amount of money and that trigger the stake to investigate the account. Maybe Stake can do something about this, they can easily know if OP is a real gambler who already spend a lot of money on the platform. There’s no way for OP to let go of that money, the only option is to negotiate or comply with the requirements, show them your proof of trades and maybe that can work.

I don't understand why some of you are looking for excuses to defend Stake in this case when op already provided sufficient proof to verify his statements against them. Forcing him to provide proof of funds in this manner is odd.

I think it is normal if some irregularities in fund movement are found in an account. There is also a chance that some possible information that the player is accused of using Stake to wash his illegal money. @OP only shows a screenshot of the stake asking for the source of funds and a part of the stake TOS. He did not even tell us why stake is asking for the document of the source of funds, the conversation is cut so all things are open for speculation and assumption.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 16, 2022, 01:51:41 PM

They should provide a reasonable explanation as to why they feel that he should provide more proof in order to justify their stance if you ask me.

I believe it was already stated in the conversation between OP and stake staff but it was cut. So it is possible that @OP intentionally does that to keep us in blind and speculate over things. Though it will be great if a representative of stake.com gives us some light on this case.

Hispo

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OP have you tried to summit to Stake proof of your positions and movements on the exchange you trade on?
That should be enough to demonstrate you earned your money through trading in a legal platform which also have your KYC. You could even ask the exchange costumer service to provide a document which states your lawful profits obtained by trading, this document could even include your KYC information which should match with the information held by Stake, in my opinion, that should be enough to convince Stake you are not doing anything ilegal.

Also, this topic makes me wonder: could Bitcoin earned by partaking in Campaigns on the forum lead to the same problems?
Would the spreadsheets issued by campaign managers be enough to prove origin of funds? Or would be necessary a document issued by the casino behind campaign itself to provide such proof of participation?

seleme

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Quote from: Xxmodded on October 15, 2022, 07:03:55 PM

Quote from: noorman0 on October 12, 2022, 03:59:54 AM

If they start to distrust you, close the account, go somewhere else. I think their rules starting to give you this kind of special attention will lead you to the verification procedure to the next level of complication. Don't mean to go against Stake's policy, to me it's already not very comfortable to bet long term for any casino.

Not easy with closing account have reach platinum 4 and actually I know how much money spent by the OP before reaching almost highest level in Stake. Better what ever incoming fund in stake with huge or little no matter for investigate, maybe stake not safety any more at the future if have problem when huge amount withdraw or deposit need KYC procedure. Maybe OP could try accepted with procedure needed by Stake and hope can get back his account because with platinum 4 have excited bonuses in weekly or monthly.

A plat 4 account is hard to achieve within a short timeframe, he deposited lots of cryptos to reach this VIP rank and take advantage of VIP perks. A year ago, for VIP Host having a plat 1 account was enough, nowadays the minimum requirement is plat 4 for being eligible. Hopefully, OP will get back his account and withdrawal but Stake should take into consideration the arguments of OP who has no other legal documents as required by the Stake support team. OP still didn't answer questions regarding flagged transactions or coins coming from mixers, this is the main concern to reach a solution.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The thing is, OP is already at the level 3 and why there’s a sudden change?
Probably OP tried to deposit huge amount of money and that trigger the stake to investigate the account. Maybe Stake can do something about this, they can easily know if OP is a real gambler who already spend a lot of money on the platform. There’s no way for OP to let go of that money, the only option is to negotiate or comply with the requirements, show them your proof of trades and maybe that can work.

I don't understand why some of you are looking for excuses to defend Stake in this case when op already provided sufficient proof to verify his statements against them. Forcing him to provide proof of funds in this manner is odd.

They should provide a reasonable explanation as to why they feel that he should provide more proof in order to justify their stance if you ask me.

serjent05

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 15, 2022, 02:11:02 PM

So depending on the amount of money involved, it can be understandable why they are not accepting trading, provision of crypto services as a genuine prove of funds.

In my experience, trading can generate more profit than mining. I have seen lots of people in my stay in the crypto industry gaining millions of dollars in profit from a hundred to thousand dollar investment in just a matter of few months. I believe as long as there is a ledger to prove the fund is coming from trading profit, it should be recognized as a valid source of income. Though in a scenario where the initial trading fund is a huge sum of money, the person holding that fund should also give proof of the source of the initial fund.

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 15, 2022, 02:11:02 PM

@OP, If you have businesses or other investments outside crypto, then maybe you should try using that/those as a prove of fund.

I would also suggest this ↑↑↑

Quote from: mu_enrico on October 12, 2022, 08:45:39 AM

The way I see it, Platinum 4 is a high rank with a high amount of wager requirement. With that amount of money for gambling, it should be pretty easy to prove your source of funds (for most whales) since you are expected to have six+ figures job, legitimate businesses, etc. Without that proof, there are only drug dealers and the like. Trading should be fine though if you have the record, should be treated fairly similar to this:

Quote

Sales of shared or other investments / liquidation of investment portfolio / bonds

Source: ToS

Anyway, there's nothing to worry about for small-time gamblers since who cares about the origin of $100? It is only applicable to whales.

I wonder if the quoted statement from the TOS is only applicable to fiat currency.

Xxmodded

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Quote from: noorman0 on October 12, 2022, 03:59:54 AM

If they start to distrust you, close the account, go somewhere else. I think their rules starting to give you this kind of special attention will lead you to the verification procedure to the next level of complication. Don't mean to go against Stake's policy, to me it's already not very comfortable to bet long term for any casino.

Not easy with closing account have reach platinum 4 and actually I know how much money spent by the OP before reaching almost highest level in Stake. Better what ever incoming fund in stake with huge or little no matter for investigate, maybe stake not safety any more at the future if have problem when huge amount withdraw or deposit need KYC procedure. Maybe OP could try accepted with procedure needed by Stake and hope can get back his account because with platinum 4 have excited bonuses in weekly or monthly.

passwordnow

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Quote from: RILWAN on October 14, 2022, 05:11:41 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Whats the reason for suspending the account, what did they say?

Just the sae question i was abiut to ask, what i can deduce from the op's statement is the fact that he may have been involved in some money laundering activities that have led to the stake asking him for such legal documents as proof of funds.

It could be huge deposits that he can't justify from which source it came and the stake is looking for a legitimate source that's not related to crypto.
And if that's not acceptable to them, OP has got no choice but just to leave it since he has already asked and contested about it. There's no way to change that decision from them. You can still gamble with other casinos if you want to OP but, there might be some really huge thing as to why they've banned your account related to your deposits/withdrawals.

seleme

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Quote from: Blawpaw on October 14, 2022, 08:16:32 PM

Quote from: ramanlop0 on October 11, 2022, 09:17:16 PM

Hello friends, I am a platinum 4 player at stake.

Today my account was suspended and I was asked to submit proof of funds as I am already verified upto level 3 and proof of funds comes in as level 4

I have asked support and they have confirmed that they do not deem any crypto earnings as legal and valid source of income apart from income made through mining. This means if you are a service provider, a seller or simply a trade you cannot provide proof of funds at stake as they only deem mining earnings as legal and everything else is illegal and invalid.

So if you have money at stake.com and you don't have any of these ready (https://help.stake.com/en/articles/5328395-acceptable-documents-for-source-of-funds) , please withdraw your money right now.

It is really confusing why stake is disrespecting people who work hard and earn their money from small crypto tasks

I earn my money from trading, and selling some services and sometimes airdrops and stake tells me I am invalid

Well, if they are asking you to clarify the origin of the deposited funds they must have found something suspicious. Always remember that you can have in your possession "Tainted coins" and this can generate red flags to be raised. For instance, if someone sent you some coins to pay you for a service and these coins were coming from a mixer they can possibly raise an alert. Given that the coins you have deposited may have been identified as already being used for illicit purposes, Stake's Compliance team may be compelled to act.

I agree, if the finance team founds deposit address been funded by shady transactions linked to mixer or Dark Web they will ask the source of funds before processing transaction. Unless user has direct connection with red flagged address, it is up to Stake support to accept deposit or send back to original address in case of user refuses to prove required documents,IMHO.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 15, 2022, 02:11:02 PM

I just started gambling on stake and managed to pass my kyc level 2 verification some few days back, I don't even know if I've made it to platinum one, so I honestly don't know what it takes to be a platinum 4 ranked gambler on stake, but my guess is that, it must require gambling with lots of funds to achieve such rank, and also consider the fact that there is a limit to the amount of money a person can make through trading, and providing crypto services.

So depending on the amount of money involved, it can be understandable why they are not accepting trading, provision of crypto services as a genuine prove of funds.

@OP, If you have businesses or other investments outside crypto, then maybe you should try using that/those as a prove of fund.

You can find your VIP rank here and see the benefits for all the available ranks here

To reach Platinum 4 VIP rank, you need to wager at least $2,500,000 (you can find more details about VIP Program here)

A full list of the acceptable documents for source of funds can be found here. That list have been in the Help Center for quite a long time.

Also last but not least, can the OP send me his Stake username? It can be in private if he wants to keep his privacity. In order to find out what the real issue is, thats the first info we need

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Quote from: PX-Z on October 15, 2022, 02:26:11 PM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 15, 2022, 02:11:02 PM

So depending on the amount of money involved, it can be understandable why they are not accepting trading, provision of crypto services as a genuine prove of funds.

Sounds lame to me,

You are right, if what I said be the reason, it sounds absolutely lame to me as well I must admit, but then, the truth remains the truth, they probably have their reason and until one is in their shoes, it is really really hard to understand.

Quote

It's understandable that they just want to follow some certain regulations but that's too much of BS to consider.

Thank you, exactly where I was driving to, I trust that stake knows what is wrong and that which is right, and they love and have the interest of their community and users at heart, but some times, due to the fact that they have to follow some regulations if they must continue to run their business with out problems, it becomes a case of ("we wish there was a way to help, but unfortunately, our hands are tied") to some of their customers.

Please don't think I am siding stake.. I am just trying to give them the benefit of doubt.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on October 15, 2022, 02:11:02 PM

So depending on the amount of money involved, it can be understandable why they are not accepting trading, provision of crypto services as a genuine prove of funds.

Sounds lame to me, crypto is not just mining, and mining is not for everyone. Stake knows it very well that crypto is a growing industry. Well, their CEO founded primedice too on bitcoin/crypto's earlier years. Many jobs have opened since then due to the growing popularity of cryptocurrency. It's impractical for them to say that most of these crypto jobs are illegal and only mining is legal, mining is even a business not just a job, and not everyone can open a business especially a crypto related business.

They should update that BS policy of them. It's understandable that they just want to follow some certain regulations but that's too much of BS to consider.

Fivestar4everMVP

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I just started gambling on stake and managed to pass my kyc level 2 verification some few days back, I don't even know if I've made it to platinum one, so I honestly don't know what it takes to be a platinum 4 ranked gambler on stake, but my guess is that, it must require gambling with lots of funds to achieve such rank, and also consider the fact that there is a limit to the amount of money a person can make through trading, and providing crypto services.

So depending on the amount of money involved, it can be understandable why they are not accepting trading, provision of crypto services as a genuine prove of funds.

@OP, If you have businesses or other investments outside crypto, then maybe you should try using that/those as a prove of fund.

Topic: Stake.com does not deem crypto earnings as legal (Read 709 times)