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Topic: Stats on malled transactions - page 4. (Read 17392 times)

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
February 12, 2014, 03:41:14 AM
#71
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944



So, don't deliver until the transaction to you is confirmed, is that....news?

Obviously you didn't read the post or link.  I said nothing about delivering goods before confirmed.

I am not saying you have said anything wrong, I was referring to the panic. And I don't think such consequences can be considered "screwed up", as an end user I would probably not even notice anything other than a slow-up of the network if I don't pay attention.

You wouldn't notice a transaction you made (or someone made to you) that never confirms due to no fault of your own.  By never, I mean never. Not in an hour, or a day, or a year.  Smiley
Most people would and they probably would consider that "screwed up".

Well, I don't know about you, but when I actually want to see if my tx gets confirmed, I always search for the address and check if there is a new transaction with the correct amount, coming from the right address, probably it's just me though...

I have no idea how do other clients track the txs, but I would be utterly surprised if there are still that many using Bitcoin-Qt.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 12, 2014, 03:37:38 AM
#70
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944



So, don't deliver until the transaction to you is confirmed, is that....news?

Obviously you didn't read the post or link.  I said nothing about delivering goods before confirmed.

I am not saying you have said anything wrong, I was referring to the panic. And I don't think such consequences can be considered "screwed up", as an end user I would probably not even notice anything other than a slow-up of the network if I don't pay attention.

You wouldn't notice a transaction you made (or someone made to you) that never confirms due to no fault of your own.  By never, I mean never. Not in an hour, or a day, or a year.  Smiley
Most people would and they probably would consider that "screwed up".
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
February 12, 2014, 03:32:04 AM
#69
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944



So, don't deliver until the transaction to you is confirmed, is that....news?

Obviously you didn't read the post or link.  I said nothing about delivering goods before confirmed.

I am not saying you have said anything wrong, I was referring to the panic. And I don't think such consequences can be considered "screwed up", as an end user I would probably not even notice anything other than a slow-up of the network if I don't pay attention.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 12, 2014, 03:20:39 AM
#68
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944



So, don't deliver until the transaction to you is confirmed, is that....news?

Obviously you didn't read the post or link.  I said nothing about delivering goods before confirmed.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
February 12, 2014, 03:11:43 AM
#67
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944



So, don't deliver until the transaction to you is confirmed, is that....news?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
February 12, 2014, 03:02:39 AM
#66
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

Define "screwed up". If your definition of "screwed up" includes a slowed down bitcoin economy because most (if not all) services are having problems with delayed transactions that are not credited to customer's accounts then YES, a single PC can "screw up" 25% of transactions and dramatically slow down the economy.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
February 12, 2014, 12:55:27 AM
#65
someone has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that bit coin is
capable of being manipulated.

someone would do that who has it in their interests to do that.
certainly many parties would fit that bill.

i agree with the writer who said now is not the time to point fingers.
Fix the present problem. No one will remember it in a month.

But the real problem is 20 million merchants just put Bitcoin on
the back burner for the next year. Not good for Bitcoin at all.

bad press == bad price. bad price == bad investment.

of course, a couple months ago, I suggested Bitcoin should build in the
exchange process into the wallets. Bitcoin touts its "decentralized" nature
but every exchange has an easy bulls-eye on its back for governments to
take aim at. In other words, since Bitcoin's exchanges are centralized,
so therefore is Bitcoin.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps. I would like to see Bitcoin thrive. It can become
the electric car of the monetary system,…. a valuable addition.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 08:32:14 PM
#64
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?

It depends on what you mean by "screwed up".  The attacker can't change the inputs or outputs or fees, however they can change the tx hash of unconfirmed txs.  There were over 16,000 tx "mutated" in the last 24 hours.  I am sure they weren't all withdraws from exchanges. It would appear the attackers are simply mutating in mass all transactions they are able to and broadcasting the mutated version into the network.  If the mutated version of the tx is the one which gets confirmed it can have consequences for any user.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-the-average-user-needs-to-know-about-transaction-mutability-460944

newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 08:31:07 PM
#63
Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?
yes, there are reports. foundation blog also reports issues:.
Quote
Somebody (or several somebodies) is taking advantage of the transaction malleability issue and relaying mutated versions of transactions. This is exposing bugs in both the reference implementation and some exchange’s software.
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 08:25:10 PM
#62
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!

Hold on. Are there actually any reports of something being screwed, apart from couple of exchanges who stopped withdrawals as a precaution measure?
legendary
Activity: 3682
Merit: 1580
February 11, 2014, 08:21:26 PM
#61
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.

this is probably related to the current malleability attack on the bitcoin network (25% of transactions were affected today). it has nothing to do with your theft.

In addition to the above jgarzik is quoted on reddit to have said that one home PC could have done this. One home PC can screw up 25% of transactions!
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 08:16:22 PM
#60
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.


LOL, isn't it MtGox with their custom client trying to re-submit failed transactions relentlessly?

Can you please post a couple of transactions to check what exactly was mutated? Many trivial mutations are already rejected by most nodes. Just want to see what's going on.
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 253
February 11, 2014, 08:03:04 PM
#59
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.


Or maybe they went to bed around midnight? It's currently 9am in China...
Jan
legendary
Activity: 1043
Merit: 1002
February 11, 2014, 08:00:12 PM
#58
The number of "double spends" (most of which I believe is mutated transactions) for the last 24 hours:
2014-02-11 16960
(will edit OP to reflect this)

It is slightly lower than I anticipated, as it was already above 16k 9 hours before the CET day ended (24 hours). Maybe the attack subsided, or someone is having a break.
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 253
February 11, 2014, 07:54:07 PM
#57

Byzantine Candor CNY tea-break

Cheesy good call. The other "features" of this dataset are pretty interesting too, eh? The weird constancy around 460 and the massive ramp up just after the first Gox announcement.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
February 11, 2014, 07:40:34 PM
#56
I am running a custom node that does real-time double spend analysis. I took a look at the log file over the last few days to see what was going on now that we have a lot of focus on malleable transactions.

Note that my custom node counts mutations on the same transaction as a double spend, which it isn't.

Detected double spends by date:

2014-01-29 470
2014-01-30 460
2014-01-31 460
2014-01-29 470
2014-01-30 460
2014-01-31 0
2014-02-01 39
2014-02-02 18
2014-02-03 97
2014-02-04 918
2014-02-05 461
2014-02-06 406
2014-02-07 769
2014-02-08 1260
2014-02-09 2618
2014-02-10 14576



Byzantine Candor CNY tea-break
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
February 11, 2014, 07:35:38 PM
#55
The reference client will not allow spending unconfirmed outputs received from outside the wallet.

Ah, yes, that's correct, sorry.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 07:33:05 PM
#54
is it a fact?

It seems so, not only unconfirmed change outputs but any unconfirmed outputs. The developers are applying patches to make the opposite the default behavior as we speak, the patch is seven hours old.

The reference client will not allow spending unconfirmed outputs received from outside the wallet.

If I send you 1 BTC right now, the client will indicate you do not have sufficient funds to make a tx if you try to spend it before it confirms.  Change outputs are handled differently though and could break transactions which use them before they are confirmed.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 07:31:32 PM
#53
It really is not that much of a problem IMHO. If those change outputs will eventually confirm or not has nothing to do with mutated TxID. If someone wants to include unconfirmed change outputs as his new inputs that's his problem. .
it's not a matter of wanting to include unconfirmed change outputs, it's the fact that the satoshi client does this by default and you can't stop it without patching it. so user is vulnerable to getting their wallet messed up.

>it's not a matter of wanting to include unconfirmed change outputs, it's the fact that the satoshi client does this by default
is it a fact?

Yes.  The QT client (and all other clients AFAIK) does NOT allow spending unconfirmed outputs received from outside the wallet.  Change is treated differently and unconfirmed change is allowed to be spent.  Under normal conditions this is actually a beneficial thing (otherwise you can end up not being able to spend coins until change outputs confirm) but right now that action is undesirable.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
February 11, 2014, 07:29:58 PM
#52
is it a fact?

It seems so, not only unconfirmed change outputs but any unconfirmed outputs. The developers are applying patches to make the opposite the default behavior as we speak, the patch is seven hours old.
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