Stop comparing BTC to FIAT. FIAT is dying every single day.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: PX-Z on May 04, 2023, 06:08:11 PM

But in the end you will still end up using fiat to buy things you want and need instead of bitcoin knowing its not yet accepted in any major physical stores and small vendors.
Topics like this encourage the comparison between fiat and btc instead. But yeah, comparing two different things and different purpose is pretty useless.

But Fiat and BTC have the same purpose, yes? BTC main purpose is being a currency that enables freedom of transaction where there is no need for third party. it was created to patch the flaw of fiat currency and enable currency be sent without intermediaries and without boundary. So we really can't avoid comparing this two Fiat and BTC because at some point they have the same feature.

Quote from: Outhue on May 06, 2023, 02:30:25 AM

It is true that Fiat currency loses value almost every time but I think it is better to be in the two currencies than one, it is possible to have bitcoin and to have USD because you can never tell.

bitcoin goes up and down and it is the same thing with USD, one cannot really survive without the othe,r I know many people will argue that this is wrong but the majority of Bitcoin holders get into Bitcoin using Fiat currency.

The only currency I won't be getting involved with is CBDC, because this currency is going digital and privacy first, and I won't be surprised to start hearing how people are getting spied on because they use CBDC to fund something.

Well, as we can see, we still need fiat currency because Bitcoin is yet to be accepted in most local market. We can't buy anything if we go shopping and there is no store that accept BTC. So I agree, that we still need to have fiat currency even if there is high inflation out there.

Silberman

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Quote from: Outhue on May 06, 2023, 02:30:25 AM

It is true that Fiat currency loses value almost every time but I think it is better to be in the two currencies than one, it is possible to have bitcoin and to have USD because you can never tell.

bitcoin goes up and down and it is the same thing with USD, one cannot really survive without the othe,r I know many people will argue that this is wrong but the majority of Bitcoin holders get into Bitcoin using Fiat currency.

The only currency I won't be getting involved with is CBDC, because this currency is going digital and privacy first, and I won't be surprised to start hearing how people are getting spied on because they use CBDC to fund something.

CBDCs are a big no, people have been highly critical of the social credit system which is being rolled on China and with good reason, but CBDCs are going to have pretty much the same effect, as if the government does not like that you are buying more alcohol than what they think is the right amount they can simply deny your transaction and then you cannot buy what you want with the money you earned, but then things get more dangerous as political dissidents could be made destitute in seconds as they can block and steal their wealth without any due process.

Outhue

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It is true that Fiat currency loses value almost every time but I think it is better to be in the two currencies than one, it is possible to have bitcoin and to have USD because you can never tell.

bitcoin goes up and down and it is the same thing with USD, one cannot really survive without the othe,r I know many people will argue that this is wrong but the majority of Bitcoin holders get into Bitcoin using Fiat currency.

The only currency I won't be getting involved with is CBDC, because this currency is going digital and privacy first, and I won't be surprised to start hearing how people are getting spied on because they use CBDC to fund something.

worle1bm

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The fiat is continuously losing its value due to inflation and governments printing notes to counter it and keep the monetary supply up.We have seen how the strong currencies around globe are collapsing and banks also facing the same issues which makes people more attractive to decentralised coins like Bitcoin and they don't have any comparison at all.The limited supply makes btc more important unlike the fiat which governments are printing more and more making the value of existing currency low.The fiat is losing value but still we can't say it will completely vanish but they have digital modes for it but the same concept of fiat.

Mauser

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Now imagine owning $100k 20 or 30 years ago. Wow, that was a lot of cash! You could have bought a home, maybe a nice car and still have some money left in the bank.

It's really hard to compare the value of fiat money overtime without adjusting it for inflation. A 30 year time period is a very long time if you assume a 2% inflation per year. The problem is if you don't invest your money for such a long time and lose purchasing power every year. I still remember in the 90s where 1 million USD was a huge sum and it actually made a difference. Today a family owned apartment in a good neighbourhood can already make you a millionaire, even if you have no money at all in your bank account. It's best to get away from fixed numbers, like saying I need 100,000 USD in my bank account and I will feel rich. It's better to look at your wealth in terms of what you can buy with it. Everything is relative to the price of goods you have to pay. Another solution would be to move to cheaper locations. With 100k USD you won't get far in Singapore, but you will feel like a king in Philippines.

Cookdata

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Now imagine owning $100k 20 or 30 years ago. Wow, that was a lot of cash! You could have bought a home, maybe a nice car and still have some money left in the bank.

Today... do the math and see what you can buy Grin

Inflation is killing FIAT every single day.

So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin. Don't go "wow" when BTC hits $100k. Because $100k today doesn't value that much anymore. It's still low.

Given the poor FIAT value 1 BTC is terrible cheap these days. $30k in 2009 is not $30k in 2023. You need like $42k for the same purchasing power.

What I mean is... don't sell cheap when you do it because you might never see your BTCs again.

Sell only for your real needs. Get the house or the car of your dreams. Have some money in your bank account. Live your life. But don't keep them all in the bank, those money will disappear day by day.

The governments will keep printing...

Anyone with Bitcoin knowledge would know enough that Fiat and Bitcoin are not related by ideology, not by principles or policy, the only thing they have in common is the means of settling debt, Fiat could depreciate after a long period of time while Bitcoin could depreciate for a short period of time if there is tension or any form of FUD but it can appreciate to beat inflation 10 times faster ahead of inflation, I think the topic should have been don't save money in Fiat, rather it should be in bitcoin.

The government will print because the system is designed in that manner, the policy of FED allows them to do that, they can go brrr on their machines anytime they like but Bitcoin protocols are static, you can't change the genesis code, the 1 million will remain 1 million in hundred years to come, that is how it will be till then, no proposal can nullify that rule of Bitcoin.

Mate2237

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Now imagine owning $100k 20 or 30 years ago. Wow, that was a lot of cash! You could have bought a home, maybe a nice car and still have some money left in the bank.

Not all houses plus car you can use that amount to buy and charge will be left in your hand. though it will go for a long way.

Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Today... do the math and see what you can buy Grin

Inflation is killing FIAT every single day.

Inflation affect every currency in the world and not only on fiat currency. It affect also bitcoin because since bitcoin can not be use to buy things directly, you must change the bitcoin to fiat current before using it to buy stuff.

Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.
So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin. Don't go "wow" when BTC hits $100k. Because $100k today doesn't value that much anymore. It's still low.

OP can you use bitcoin without the fiat currency? When you are advising people, you have to think the both side of the advise. comparing BTC with fiat is worthless though everyone has their own value in their domain.

Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.
What I mean is... don't sell cheap when you do it because you might never see your BTCs again.

Yes but when you are dieing what will you do? will you keep your coins there and die go? do well to advise people.

Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.
Sell only for your real needs. Get the house or the car of your dreams. Have some money in your bank account. Live your life. But don't keep them all in the bank, those money will disappear day by day.

In what time the real needs will come? there is always a need to settle at all time. And if there is no spare cash at hand, then you are to sell it.

Alpha Marine

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Quote from: EarnOnVictor on May 03, 2023, 07:38:57 AM

You are making this too loud, yes, no one should compare Bitcoin with Fiat, but Bitcoin is not better than Fiat, and we have to balance things here. It should be noted that Bitcoin will never survive without fiat, it even has its limit of supply, and it has its times of appreciation and depreciation, so why do some people look at Bitcoin's positive side alone and turn a blind eye to its downside? Both have their pros and cons as nothing is perfect in reality.

We measure the worth of BTC through fiat. The worth of gold is measured with fiat, and the worth of stock is measured with fiat so I don't get why people feel like fiat should be eradicated or something. Fiat currencies have their downside, inflation and centralization have been the biggest problems of fiat but we still need them.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on May 03, 2023, 07:38:57 AM

From an economic view, I believe that someone that has planned his project to be executed between 2022-2023 by saving in Bitcoin on November 2021 will be regretting while not saving in Fiat.

Exactly.
People who invested in Bitcoin during the ATH will be regretting because they have made losses and to them, it would have been better if they just saved their money in USD. At least it will still be worth something.

[/quote]

TravelMug

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Now imagine owning $100k 20 or 30 years ago. Wow, that was a lot of cash! You could have bought a home, maybe a nice car and still have some money left in the bank.

Today... do the math and see what you can buy Grin

Inflation is killing FIAT every single day.

So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin. Don't go "wow" when BTC hits $100k. Because $100k today doesn't value that much anymore. It's still low.

Given the poor FIAT value 1 BTC is terrible cheap these days. $30k in 2009 is not $30k in 2023. You need like $42k for the same purchasing power.

What I mean is... don't sell cheap when you do it because you might never see your BTCs again.

Sell only for your real needs. Get the house or the car of your dreams. Have some money in your bank account. Live your life. But don't keep them all in the bank, those money will disappear day by day.

The governments will keep printing...

Thanks again, you are truly one of those who are going to hold bitcoin for a long time. And if I'm not mistaken, you said before that you haven't sell any single bitcoin and you are still accumulating after so many years.

And I do agree that FIAT is dying, just like what we are seeing right now, many banks are going bankrupt, people are withdrawing because they know that their money is not going to worth something because of inflation.

So let's wait for BTC to become $100k or more this next bull run. And diamond hands like you for sure are going to be richer... again.

Kakmakr

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Well, you started your thread by comparing the devaluation of Fiat currencies to Crypto currencies... right?

We compare Crypto currencies like Bitcoin to Fiat to highlight it's flaws, because we need to educated the uneducated on the advantages to using this technology as an alternative to Fiat currencies.

In any way, if you "save" Fiat currencies in the correct way, you can beat inflation and still grow your wealth... but it is a constant fight to beat inflation to protect the value of your money. Roll Eyes

adzino

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Saying that fiat is dying every single day is a bit extreme I would say. Don't jump to any conclusion. If it is dying, it won't happen anytime soon. And we don't actually want fiat to die overnight. Yeah, inflation can wipe off the value of fiat currency over time, but it's not like it's on its deathbed or anything. Measures are taken that would reduce the inflation (for short term, i know..). If fiat does die overnight, it would be a chaos. I doubt crypto would also be able to save us. Fiat and bitcoin are not mutually exclusive. They will most likely coexist, each serving different purposes. Right now Bitcoin is an investment for everyone, while fiat is the most used currency for day to day transactions.

BenCodie

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Your post is factually correct however there is one thing that I am curious about, being the basis of the entire thread that people are comparing bitcoin to fiat as if it were similar or the same...

Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin.

Can you reference some posts of people comparing Bitcoin to FIAT? I have been participating in the forum for many weeks and in my time I have not seen a single person say or elude that Bitcoin is in any way the same or similar to FIAT (or else, I would have quickly corrected them).

lonerangerh

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Now imagine owning $100k 20 or 30 years ago. Wow, that was a lot of cash! You could have bought a home, maybe a nice car and still have some money left in the bank.

Today... do the math and see what you can buy Grin

Inflation is killing FIAT every single day.

So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin. Don't go "wow" when BTC hits $100k. Because $100k today doesn't value that much anymore. It's still low.

Given the poor FIAT value 1 BTC is terrible cheap these days. $30k in 2009 is not $30k in 2023. You need like $42k for the same purchasing power.

What I mean is... don't sell cheap when you do it because you might never see your BTCs again.

Sell only for your real needs. Get the house or the car of your dreams. Have some money in your bank account. Live your life. But don't keep them all in the bank, those money will disappear day by day.

The governments will keep printing...

You cannot stop people from comparing Bitcoin to fiat currency. The true value of Bitcoin cannot be properly evaluated due to the continuous inflation that diminishes the value of fiat currency. While $100k held great value many years ago, its value has significantly decreased today due to inflation.

PX-Z

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But in the end you will still end up using fiat to buy things you want and need instead of bitcoin knowing its not yet accepted in any major physical stores and small vendors.
Topics like this encourage the comparison between fiat and btc instead. But yeah, comparing two different things and different purpose is pretty useless.

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on May 04, 2023, 04:57:20 PM

-snip-
The high rate of inflation is largely due to the devaluation of dollars, and as a result, the purchasing power of money is not really strong. Since the issues emerged from the federal reserve because of the constant printing of money, if the excessive dollars that have been printed can be retracted, at least it can help to make the dollar value go up. Because definitely, even if you hold your Bitcoin for a long time, as long as you will one day convert it to buy something, it will still not be worth much because of how low the dollar value would be.

The problem with Fiat is that the inflation rate is high and that will affect the value of the dollar in the future.
And remember that the government has full control of the dollar, they can print more dollars.
And for the excess dollars will they be withdrawn? it depends on their policy as a government.
Fiat will be affected by high inflation and $100k in the future will not be so big, but 1 BTC=1BTC and it will remain unchanged and will not be affected by inflation.

Quote from: Captain Corporate on May 04, 2023, 05:07:36 PM

-snip-
Its getting to be a generation that will never own anything unless inherited, so bitcoin has to be the way out, or we are screwed.

Bitcoin is the right way out so that it still has value in the future and will not be affected when Fiat is dying.
Bitcoin can be a digital asset that is inherited and will provide more value for bitcoin holders.
it will continue to grow in every generation.

Captain Corporate

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This is such an important thing to realize, there is no scenario where fiat will make you rich, you are going to end up losing money without a doubt and that is going to be the case each time. I understand that some people may prefer it some other way but that is just how it is. I hope that we get to do something a bit better, and that should be a bit more towards making it work on bitcoin, like maybe instead of bitcoin relying on fiat, maybe in the future fiat would rely on bitcoin. I don't really know how it will happen, but fiat is not the way to go, it is dying for sure, we are seeing the system crashing hard once every 10 years, and its just making us all poorer and poorer. Its getting to be a generation that will never own anything unless inherited, so bitcoin has to be the way out, or we are screwed.

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

Look at $100k.

Inflation is killing FIAT every single day.

So stop comparing BTC to FIAT and see the true value of Bitcoin. Don't go "wow" when BTC hits $100k. Because $100k today doesn't value that much anymore. It's still low.

Some times I used to feel that if the dollar's value kept depreciating until it really got so bad, that meant it might affect Bitcoin. Because even if you sell your bitcoin for $100,000, possibly, there is nothing serious you can do with the money.

The high rate of inflation is largely due to the devaluation of dollars, and as a result, the purchasing power of money is not really strong. Since the issues emerged from the federal reserve because of the constant printing of money, if the excessive dollars that have been printed can be retracted, at least it can help to make the dollar value go up. Because definitely, even if you hold your Bitcoin for a long time, as long as you will one day convert it to buy something, it will still not be worth much because of how low the dollar value would be.

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Quote from: virtualdn on May 03, 2023, 06:50:27 AM

What I mean is... don't sell cheap when you do it because you might never see your BTCs again.

Sell only for your real needs. Get the house or the car of your dreams. Have some money in your bank account. Live your life. But don't keep them all in the bank, those money will disappear day by day.

This is what I have been doing for years and until now it can be said that my economic condition and that of my family are fine. By applying the concept of saving a few percent in Bitcoins and continuing to accumulate even the small amount I can afford. Cash is there for basic needs and it really needs to be done. I occasionally sell to keep up with the stock of house needs on condition that it doesn't exceed 5%. Seeing the optimism of $ 100K, we will get to that point, with people becoming more aware of high-risk investments and having the courage to make decisions, coupled with large adoption by several countries, institutions, and retailers making $ 100K achievable in a short period of time.

serjent05

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@OP we cannot avoid comparing BTC to FIAT currency because BTC is created to be used as money or currency. The difference is that BTC can be transferred without intermediaries while fiat can't be transferred without it.

Aside from that, the Bitcoin community is encouraging people to use BTC or at least make BTC as an alternative and there is no better way to introduce Bitcoin to people but to compare the pros and cons between Bitcoin and Fiat. You cannot persuade people in using BTC if you cannot point out the advantage of using it.

So you cannot just tell anyone to stop comparing BTC to fiat because even you @OP, compared it already.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 04, 2023, 02:54:33 PM

Fiat and cryptocurrency are distinct terms, with differing purposes. Fiat is essential for daily living, while cryptocurrency is a digital currency that offers investment opportunities. As such, comparing the two is not feasible. Fiat cannot be invested, so one cannot expect a return on investment. Its primary function is to evaluate the value of Bitcoin, allowing for comparison. I do not believe it is wise to hold Bitcoin for a lifetime, as it offers no tangible benefits to our daily lives. Instead, I advocate for selling when necessary and taking advantage of the volatility of the market to increase one's portfolio.

Both currencies can't be compared, because their principles are completely different. Bitcoin has limited supply, fiat has infinite supply. Bitcoin is decentralized, while fiat is centralized. It's like comparing apples to oranges: both are fruits, but completely different on every other aspects.

But I understand OP gives a valuable lesson to the forum when he says fiat is losing purchasing power along the decades, while Bitcoin is only getting more traction and strength on the market. So it makes sense to evaluate Bitcoin more than fiat holdings. Avoid holding large chunks of fiat at all costs. Invest it into BTC or any other asset or property which is going to get more valuable within time.

Topic: Stop comparing BTC to FIAT. FIAT is dying every single day. (Read 344 times)