"Stop saying Bitcoin is good for money transfer. It isn't."
Your title is misleading. You are talking about large, corporate sized funds transfer, when the market Bitcoin is most poised to disrupt is the small transfer remittance business. The small remittance business is massive, and the costs of transfer are large, and growing, because many banks don't even want to deal with remittance companies thanks to money laundering panic.
Bitcoin is not designed to replace the SWIFT system for corporate payments, and I don't think too many have suggested that it has any chance of doing so.
Topic: Stop saying Bitcoin is good for money transfer. It isn't. - page 3. (Read 10088 times)
Don't forget that Bitcoin is what....5 years old? It will get better over time as the infrastructure, companies, and services surrounding it improve.
He doesnt even need to transfer the BTC just tell his uncle over the phone the password. His uncle then assumes control of that account immediately
Bitcoin is, in fact, a fantastic way of transferring value. It's just that your family member apparently denominated his/her investment terms in dollars, not BTC.
In the 17th centry tulips were also a great way to transfer wealth as well. For the foreseeable future most will need BTC>FIAT exchange.
you have valid points - you are right it isn't the easiest to do today
however, just don't bring up tulips. thank you
Then I would also request people not use arguments that require a purely bitcoin world where all of a business or persons costs are denominated in this. It makes only as much sense as the tulip comparison I used as a response to it
That's not true at all. The absurd tulip analogy is a completely different domain (store of value) than transfer of value. You state that your thread is about transfer of value. But you're actually wrong about that... Your thread is about currency conversion. Since we're putting in requests, mine is that you understand this distinction and re-phrase your argument accordingly. Also, I request that you try not to engage in irrelevant sensationalist ignorant comparisons.
Bitcoin is, in fact, a fantastic way of transferring value.
While u r waiting for a confirmation this value can gain or lose 10% due to high volatility. Fantastic, indeed.
I think not many people would claim that bitcoin is a good way to transfer "dollars/euros/yens/turkish liras" etc. Especially trying to do this by going through the exchanges, is a really bad idea. So I don't know who you are telling to "stop".
But bitcoin is a great way to transfer "money". Probably the best one out there.
I did this with a friend in Turkey. He did some service to me and I made him setup a wallet and sent him bitcoins. At the time bitcoin was about $50.
He asked me "but how do I turn them into Turkish Liras?". I said "that's a bad idea, but If you want, you can always send them back to me, and I will send you euros at the current exchange rates to your bank account. Of course It will take weeks, and all the fees, conversion rates etc. are your problem".
instead I showed him how he can buy stuff from bitmit, or how he can find a local buyer etc. if he needs TRY's.
In the end he decided to keep the bitcoins. Now he still has them, they are worth more than twice their value when I sent them. I can't imagine any other method that would have worked better than this for both of us.
But bitcoin is a great way to transfer "money". Probably the best one out there.
I did this with a friend in Turkey. He did some service to me and I made him setup a wallet and sent him bitcoins. At the time bitcoin was about $50.
He asked me "but how do I turn them into Turkish Liras?". I said "that's a bad idea, but If you want, you can always send them back to me, and I will send you euros at the current exchange rates to your bank account. Of course It will take weeks, and all the fees, conversion rates etc. are your problem".
instead I showed him how he can buy stuff from bitmit, or how he can find a local buyer etc. if he needs TRY's.
In the end he decided to keep the bitcoins. Now he still has them, they are worth more than twice their value when I sent them. I can't imagine any other method that would have worked better than this for both of us.
I am sorry for your trouble. My experience is quite the opposite. I have been using Bitcoin for international transfer for several years now. Not for the sake of using it, but because it works better than alternatives.
When MtGox started having problems with Dwolla, I was forced to look around for another USD option, and Bitstamp has been great.
Things you complain about have nothing to do with Bitcoin technology, but with exchanges you are using and not using, and with the current state of adoption. It's like complaining that TCP-IP is broken because your internet provider sucks or because somebody infected your PC with a virus.
When MtGox started having problems with Dwolla, I was forced to look around for another USD option, and Bitstamp has been great.
Things you complain about have nothing to do with Bitcoin technology, but with exchanges you are using and not using, and with the current state of adoption. It's like complaining that TCP-IP is broken because your internet provider sucks or because somebody infected your PC with a virus.
over 3Kusd, not need use bitcoin, paypal, WesternUnion.
Just use swift international bank wire.
Just use swift international bank wire.
As a side note: this issue illustrates pretty clearly why alternative coins will be at a constant disadvantage. 3 of 193 countries have easy bank/money <> bitcoin services. As that increases it embeds this currency even more. As has been stated elsewhere (Quora CEO: Do other crypto-currencies have a chance or is Bitcoin too far ahead?) unless an alt currency provides seriously strong features over bitcoin (ahem, better anonymity??) then the infrastructure of bitcoin will be near impossible to compete with. The headache of BTC users trying to live in a FIAT world and depending on various tools and regulations to allow this is a huge advantage that is growing.
LocalBitcoins rates are very fair, 1% off of the top for escrow, but chances are you are selling above the Bitstamp price (but below the Mt Gox price) with an established account in a populated area, you would have had zero problems converting $50k in BTC to $50k in USD. The thing is, you weren't prepared. You could have transferred the BTC to your uncle, he could have done the KYC verification with CampBX and also had cash pretty quickly.
When we say that BTC is good for moving money cheaply, the money we are talking about is BTC, not government fiat. After you move the money, you go through the same hassles to convert BTC to local currency as you would with any obscure foreign currency, in many places there simply are not a lot of options, and the options that are available are subject to extreme regulation.
When we say that BTC is good for moving money cheaply, the money we are talking about is BTC, not government fiat. After you move the money, you go through the same hassles to convert BTC to local currency as you would with any obscure foreign currency, in many places there simply are not a lot of options, and the options that are available are subject to extreme regulation.
The location for exchange in the EU and US are both major cities with populations >1m. In both cities the localbitcoin.com limits are too low and would likely require a couple weeks to disperse and then acquire $50k worth. I've also used local exchanges and yes they are great. Just not enough volume for larger quantities.
I agree BTC is amazing when transferring and using only BTC. It's just not a realistic outlook though for day to day life and wont be for many years to come. So much so that if someone says "bitcoin is great for money transfer" I consider this misleading. Should be "bitcoin is great for bitcoin transactions". It will be years before someone can say the former without a disclaimer
LocalBitcoins rates are very fair, 1% off of the top for escrow, but chances are you are selling above the Bitstamp price (but below the Mt Gox price) with an established account in a populated area, you would have had zero problems converting $50k in BTC to $50k in USD. The thing is, you werent prepared. You could have transferred the BTC to your uncle, he could have done the KYC verification with CampBX and also had cash pretty quickly.
When we say that BTC is good for moving money cheaply, the money we are talking about is BTC, not government fiat. After you move the money, you go through the same hassles to convert BTC to local currency as you would with any obscure foreign currency, in many places there simply are not a lot of options, and the options that are available are subject to extreme regulation.
When we say that BTC is good for moving money cheaply, the money we are talking about is BTC, not government fiat. After you move the money, you go through the same hassles to convert BTC to local currency as you would with any obscure foreign currency, in many places there simply are not a lot of options, and the options that are available are subject to extreme regulation.
I use Bitcoin to transfer money to my family overseas all the time (literally, at least once a week). I buy them through either Virtex or Coinbase, then transfer them to a localbitcoins.com contact in the city where my family lives and he hands them local currency. I used to use Western Union, but between the ridiculous WU fees and the even more ridiculous exchange rate controls in the country my family is in, I was losing over 40% of the original amount. With Bitcoin the transfer is instantaneous and I lose less than a fraction of 1%.
So how is this not working as a money transfer again?
So how is this not working as a money transfer again?
Can you tell us which country this city is in?
I'd tell you, but then I'd have to send someone after you
Capital and exchange rate controls... been in the news and the forums quite a bit lately.
Yeah, there isn't any listed in amarillo in localbitcoins.com, and i do not feel safe with bank transfers or exchanges.
Exchanges are dead to me in the US since Gox broke. I don't feel confident the USG won't be seizing my funds (in an exchange), having my bank (or Dwolla, a payment processor suggested to file for $2.5k transactions instead of the usual $5k) file SARs against me every time I twitch, or otherwise impeding transactions. Local BTC<->cash exchanges, I've found, are most convenient, low-to-no fee, lowest-hassle, and always fun.
Finding trustworthy people looking to buy or sell all over the world isn't a big issue, but it's a much more "uncertain" process than following a rigid exchange procedure, and you have to work with someone else's schedule.
Finding trustworthy people looking to buy or sell all over the world isn't a big issue, but it's a much more "uncertain" process than following a rigid exchange procedure, and you have to work with someone else's schedule.
Right now you are right. However in the future I expect that you could be able to open a bank account denominated in bitcoin, in which case it will be the ideal currency to keep your savings. And you can just convert whatever you need to spend in local currencies.
Bitcoin is, in fact, a fantastic way of transferring value. It's just that your family member apparently denominated his/her investment terms in dollars, not BTC.
In the 17th centry tulips were also a great way to transfer wealth as well. For the foreseeable future most will need BTC>FIAT exchange.
you have valid points - you are right it isn't the easiest to do today
however, just don't bring up tulips. thank you
Then I would also request people not use arguments that require a purely bitcoin world where all of a business or persons costs are denominated in this. It makes only as much sense as the tulip comparison I used as a response to it
do not ever user tulips when comparing to bitcoins. that is honestly a very stupid irrelevant comparison that gets tossed way too much. why not just talk about some other irrelevant item like sea shells or shark's teeth.
you have valid points - you are right it isn't the easiest to do today
however, just don't bring up tulips. thank you
you have valid points - you are right it isn't the easiest to do today
however, just don't bring up tulips. thank you
Bitcoin is, in fact, a fantastic way of transferring value. It's just that your family member apparently denominated his/her investment terms in dollars, not BTC.
In the 17th centry tulips were also a great way to transfer wealth as well. For the foreseeable future most will need BTC>FIAT exchange.
If you do some research you will find that the Fidor Bank is planing to implement a bank account which can do the exchange in real time. This would make Bitcoin a really nice tool for conducting transactions as an alternative to Western Union and similar money transfer services.
True but this just illustrates that the road to solving the issue of larger transfers is dependent on regulation. I believe it can be augmented also by unregulated but better p2p exchange. The Fidor Bank plan is exactly the thing that turned a great open p2p exchange into a highly regulated and thereby highly limited one (to german citizens only) that I mentioned: bitcoin.de. To be clear, I'm not apposed to this but it has a slow adoption rate and will be many years before it removes the headache of >$1k transfers. So, with that now we have China, Japan and Germany able to exchange relatively easily between them. Only 190 more to go.
Western Union- Taking 40% of the money that hard working people send home to feed their family. A really honorable business- NOT
I use Bitcoin to transfer money to my family overseas all the time (literally, at least once a week). I buy them through either Virtex or Coinbase, then transfer them to a localbitcoins.com contact in the city where my family lives and he hands them local currency. I used to use Western Union, but between the ridiculous WU fees and the even more ridiculous exchange rate controls in the country my family is in, I was losing over 40% of the original amount. With Bitcoin the transfer is instantaneous and I lose less than a fraction of 1%.
So how is this not working as a money transfer again?
So how is this not working as a money transfer again?
I think you missed my premise. I'm talking about larger transfers. I don't know the limts at Virtex but at coinbase they make it near useless for larger quantities.
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