Stopping a transaction | Bitcointalksearch.org

edoncoin

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Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 07:10:29 AM

I have been searching the forum and I can not find a solid answer to this question: Is there a way that anyone can stop a transaction before the confirmations have been made. For example; I pay Joe Dip 1.1 BTC for a domain name. I can see that the transaction is waiting confirmation in the block chain, however there are no confirmations yet. The seller can also see that the transaction is waiting for confirmations to come through. Once we are at this point is there anyway that I could stop the transaction?

no, if the transaction has already been sent to the network

Rizky Aditya

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No. As soon as you send the funds, there is no way of getting your cations back or stopping the transactions. That is one of the reasons bitcoin is better than PayPal, you can't reverse of refund the transactions.

harrymmmm

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Quote from: shanerc563 on December 17, 2015, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: harrymmmm on December 16, 2015, 10:48:48 PM

Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

I take it you don't accept credit cards then?
Coz if you did, you're exaggerating how sure you need to be that a customer can't cancel the transaction any time within the next 6 months or so.
We're talking 10 mins here, and even that is something bitpay would help with for 1% commission (I think).

Bottom line: you won't ever be sure, but if the extra income/customers beats the averaged/expected loss you need to go ahead, right?

I would have to think that accepting credit cards is a little bit different than accepting a bitcoin transaction. Once you make the credit card swipe you get the approval code right then, when bitcoin is sent it takes a few for the transaction to be confirmed. So would I be correct in saying you can resend those somehow when it is being confirmed?

I can see you've made up your mind, coz you're not really listening. Read what I said once again.

credit card transactions are able to be reversed (charge backs) up to months after you get that approval code.
bitcoin is pretty much settled at the first (10 min) confirmation and guaranteed within an hour or so.
So yes, credit cards are a 'little bit different'. On average, they are worse for you, and for that 'privilege' you pay a few percent in fees.

shanerc563

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Quote from: harrymmmm on December 16, 2015, 10:48:48 PM

Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

I take it you don't accept credit cards then?
Coz if you did, you're exaggerating how sure you need to be that a customer can't cancel the transaction any time within the next 6 months or so.
We're talking 10 mins here, and even that is something bitpay would help with for 1% commission (I think).

Bottom line: you won't ever be sure, but if the extra income/customers beats the averaged/expected loss you need to go ahead, right?

I would have to think that accepting credit cards is a little bit different than accepting a bitcoin transaction. Once you make the credit card swipe you get the approval code right then, when bitcoin is sent it takes a few for the transaction to be confirmed. So would I be correct in saying you can resend those somehow when it is being confirmed?

pogress

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You can check the transaction at blockchain info and for unconfirmed transaction there is "Estimated Confirmation Time", if it is
Very Soon (High Priority)

then it is pretty safe. If there is small fee it will warn about it.

fristin

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Once the coins show up in your wallet usually in about 5 seconds then they are for all practical purposes yours and cannot be reversed. If I was a merchant I would confidently accept that as final for any transaction under $2000. It is theoretically possible to have a hacker come into your store and trick you with this method but not really something to worry about IMHO. The payment processors would guarantee your funds based off this method for 1% fee and convert to dollars too. So my advice is to not worry about it, if you have a very large transaction that might make it worth the time for someone to pull of a very complicated and (mostly unprecedented?) attack on your store, then make them wait the 20 min.

Hope that helps... Try it out and you will see there is really nothing to worry about.

Blawpaw

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Once a transaction is made a few seconds after the receiver will see the message and it will be impossible to reverse such transaction. That's one of the key features of the Bitcoin protocol!

bitsmichel

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Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 07:10:29 AM

I have been searching the forum and I can not find a solid answer to this question: Is there a way that anyone can stop a transaction before the confirmations have been made. For example; I pay Joe Dip 1.1 BTC for a domain name. I can see that the transaction is waiting confirmation in the block chain, however there are no confirmations yet. The seller can also see that the transaction is waiting for confirmations to come through. Once we are at this point is there anyway that I could stop the transaction?

No. Unless you call all the miners to not include the transaction Cheesy

quentincole32

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Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 07:10:29 AM

I have been searching the forum and I can not find a solid answer to this question: Is there a way that anyone can stop a transaction before the confirmations have been made. For example; I pay Joe Dip 1.1 BTC for a domain name. I can see that the transaction is waiting confirmation in the block chain, however there are no confirmations yet. The seller can also see that the transaction is waiting for confirmations to come through. Once we are at this point is there anyway that I could stop the transaction?

yes i also think that transaction can be canceled,as long that transaction have confirmation yet,the small example can you see on bittrex witdrawal transaction,there is any button for cancel your witdrawal from email,but on some exchange,its nothing.

Amph

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people should knew already that in bitcoin there is no chargeback, this is a form of chargeback basically

however the nearest thing you can do if you have a 51% hashpower, reverse your transaction only

JeWay

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It's possible i think, that's why there is a double spend system

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: knightkon on December 17, 2015, 06:53:47 AM

Quote from: harrymmmm on December 16, 2015, 10:48:48 PM

Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

I take it you don't accept credit cards then?
Coz if you did, you're exaggerating how sure you need to be that a customer can't cancel the transaction any time within the next 6 months or so.
We're talking 10 mins here, and even that is something bitpay would help with for 1% commission (I think).

Bottom line: you won't ever be sure, but if the extra income/customers beats the averaged/expected loss you need to go ahead, right?

I understand where you are coming from, but with credit cards, I have a signed receipt from them, so there is always verification that they did authorize this. I am just more concerned with someone making a large purchase and knowing how to make that transaction stop or such. With credit cards, I always have a protection where I can prove the validation to the processing company, with BTC it seems I do not, so I want to make sure that the transaction is good before they leave the store. I understand most of the time it is only 10 minutes or so, but if you ever been shopping with women, they do not want to wait that 10 minutes.

If that's your concern why don't you just use a payment processor like BitPay? They guarantee payment for small merchants (zero confirmation) and only charge a 1% fee. It would literally be as easy and safe as taking a credit card except your fee is smaller.

medUSA

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Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

Generally, it is very difficult to double spend. If the input of the transaction is confirmed, the transaction size is small-ish, have adequate fee, there is no reason for the transaction not to confirm. So, the customer has no feasible way to cancel or reverse it.

Quote from: knightkon on December 17, 2015, 06:53:47 AM

so I want to make sure that the transaction is good before they leave the store. I understand most of the time it is only 10 minutes or so, but if you ever been shopping with women, they do not want to wait that 10 minutes.

I have waited a good hour for 1 confirmation before. It's not practical to expect 1 confirmation before customers leave the store. You can ask customers to pay a higher transaction fee to increase your confidence and judge the transaction based on the rules listed above, or don't accept over the counter purchases with bitcoin.

knightkon

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Quote from: harrymmmm on December 16, 2015, 10:48:48 PM

Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

I take it you don't accept credit cards then?
Coz if you did, you're exaggerating how sure you need to be that a customer can't cancel the transaction any time within the next 6 months or so.
We're talking 10 mins here, and even that is something bitpay would help with for 1% commission (I think).

Bottom line: you won't ever be sure, but if the extra income/customers beats the averaged/expected loss you need to go ahead, right?

I understand where you are coming from, but with credit cards, I have a signed receipt from them, so there is always verification that they did authorize this. I am just more concerned with someone making a large purchase and knowing how to make that transaction stop or such. With credit cards, I always have a protection where I can prove the validation to the processing company, with BTC it seems I do not, so I want to make sure that the transaction is good before they leave the store. I understand most of the time it is only 10 minutes or so, but if you ever been shopping with women, they do not want to wait that 10 minutes.

harrymmmm

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Quote from: knightkon on December 16, 2015, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

I take it you don't accept credit cards then?
Coz if you did, you're exaggerating how sure you need to be that a customer can't cancel the transaction any time within the next 6 months or so.
We're talking 10 mins here, and even that is something bitpay would help with for 1% commission (I think).

Bottom line: you won't ever be sure, but if the extra income/customers beats the averaged/expected loss you need to go ahead, right?

knightkon

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Quote from: ~Bitcoin~ on December 16, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

I agree with this, however I want to start acceptign Bitcoin at my place of business. In order to do this, I need to be sure that once a transaction is started that the customer has no way to cancel it or reverse it, for if I loose one transaction for .5 btc, that is my profit for a whole days worth of work.

~Bitcoin~

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No be clear bitcoin transaction is meant to be anonymous, non refundable and non reversible transaction so if you do one mistake than your coin is gone for forever.

TKeenan

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 16, 2015, 10:15:04 AM

Only the Blockchain CEO

Actually, the Blockchain CEO has assigned powers to various people who also can stop transactions. But they almost never do because it is viewed as 'improper' and somewhat annoying. Nevertheless, if they had a good reason, they could stop them as they like.

QuestionAuthority

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Bitcoin-Qt doesn't support anything like that.

Theoretically:

A transaction is canceled by publishing a second transaction which double-spends some of the coins used in the first transaction (this can be a send-to-self). If the second transaction is included in a block before the first one, the first one becomes invalid and can be considered fully cancelled after the second transaction receives 6 confirmations. It's normally not easy to do this. Network nodes won't accept transactions which double-spend coins used in a transaction they already know about. However, nodes gradually forget about transactions if they don't get into blocks, so a transaction could be cancelled if it doesn't make it into a block after several days and both the sender and recipient stop rebroadcasting it.

Bitcoin used to have a feature called transaction replacement. A transaction could be marked as non-final, which prevented this transaction from getting into a block, but allowed the transaction to be cancelled at any time. Satoshi disabled this a while ago, though. Transactions can still be marked as non-final, but they can't be replaced.

LiteCoinGuy

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