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Topic: Store of value and medium of exchange (Read 1543 times)

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
June 09, 2014, 09:38:23 PM
#28
It's a standard phrasing: "Store of value and medium of exchange". But for me it sounds like "animals and dogs". Because for something to be a medium of exchange it have to be a store of value as well. Medium of exchange is just a short-term store of value.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say just "store of value" (short-and-long-term)?

A store of value relates to price stability. Something that stores value is something that is worth approximately the same tomorrow (or in a week, a month, a year or in 3 years) that it is today.

A medium of exchange is something that is accepted by the public for goods and services.

One example of something being a store of value, but not a medium of exchange is a refrigerator. In general a refrigerator will not gain or lose any substantial value over a few months. However it would not be realistic to offer someone fourteen refrigerators to buy a car as the other person would have little use for that many refrigerators even though they hold their value.
Agree, not every store of value is a medium of exchange. But every medium of exchange is a store of value (at least short-time one).

You are correct that every medium of exchange is a short term store of value, but this does not do any good for something to be considered a currency. If something is a bad long term store of value (but good short term store of value) then people would not wish to invest in that currency as it could be worth a lot less when it needs to be spent. The same is true for savings and being paid a certain way.

Generally for something to be considered a store of value it needs to be a store of value over a longer period of time.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
June 09, 2014, 09:05:39 PM
#27
It's a standard phrasing: "Store of value and medium of exchange". But for me it sounds like "animals and dogs". Because for something to be a medium of exchange it have to be a store of value as well. Medium of exchange is just a short-term store of value.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say just "store of value" (short-and-long-term)?

I agree with you. The store of value is the prime function of money. This function also makes sure that the value is more than the use-value of the money stuff itself. For bitcoin, all value is money value, which is perfect because the hoarding of money therefore does not distort the production and consumption decisions.

This is important for the question of the scalability of bitcoin. Should there in the future not be enough capacity in the blockchain for all wanted transactions, only the large transactions will be conducted on the blockchain, and the function of bitcoin as a store of value will not be harmed.

The third function traditionally mentioned, the unit of account, well I don't give much attention to that. There is nothing that has a fixed value, so nothing can be a definite unit of account. That goes for dollars also. To calculate if a trade is profitable, you have to take into account that your chosen unit of account is not accurate. You can invent an index of adjustment based on your own values for that. Basically, you can not compute it exactly, you must apply your own valuations.

hero member
Activity: 798
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June 09, 2014, 12:41:54 AM
#26
It's a standard phrasing: "Store of value and medium of exchange". But for me it sounds like "animals and dogs". Because for something to be a medium of exchange it have to be a store of value as well. Medium of exchange is just a short-term store of value.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say just "store of value" (short-and-long-term)?

A store of value relates to price stability. Something that stores value is something that is worth approximately the same tomorrow (or in a week, a month, a year or in 3 years) that it is today.

A medium of exchange is something that is accepted by the public for goods and services.

One example of something being a store of value, but not a medium of exchange is a refrigerator. In general a refrigerator will not gain or lose any substantial value over a few months. However it would not be realistic to offer someone fourteen refrigerators to buy a car as the other person would have little use for that many refrigerators even though they hold their value.
Agree, not every store of value is a medium of exchange. But every medium of exchange is a store of value (at least short-time one).
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
June 09, 2014, 12:15:35 AM
#25
It's a standard phrasing: "Store of value and medium of exchange". But for me it sounds like "animals and dogs". Because for something to be a medium of exchange it have to be a store of value as well. Medium of exchange is just a short-term store of value.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say just "store of value" (short-and-long-term)?

A store of value relates to price stability. Something that stores value is something that is worth approximately the same tomorrow (or in a week, a month, a year or in 3 years) that it is today.

A medium of exchange is something that is accepted by the public for goods and services.

One example of something being a store of value, but not a medium of exchange is a refrigerator. In general a refrigerator will not gain or lose any substantial value over a few months. However it would not be realistic to offer someone fourteen refrigerators to buy a car as the other person would have little use for that many refrigerators even though they hold their value.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Right now in the present time gold and silver are not currency.  USD is currency.

Unless you can show me a store where things are priced in gold or silver, its not currency

We are discussing the unsuitability of gold and silver as currency and I say they are not unsuitable. If tomorrow the government decided they want to use gold and silver they would be OK for currency as they have always been for millenia.

Right now, gold and silver would be more than accepted in ~70% of the planet where local currency is considered very inflationary.

Look up the word "currency"
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Right now in the present time gold and silver are not currency.  USD is currency.

Unless you can show me a store where things are priced in gold or silver, its not currency

We are discussing the unsuitability of gold and silver as currency and I say they are not unsuitable. If tomorrow the government decided they want to use gold and silver they would be OK for currency as they have always been for millenia.

Right now, gold and silver would be more than accepted in ~70% of the planet where local currency is considered very inflationary.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Right now in the present time gold and silver are not currency.  USD is currency.

Unless you can show me a store where things are priced in gold or silver, its not currency
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
It's not a poor medium of exchange. It's suitable for high worth transactions. Silver for low worth.

Really?  Your average cashier can identify fraudulent coins with 99%+ accuracy?

There are machines or tools that are pretty easy to use for that.

Quote
Gold and silver and completely worthless as a medium of exchange.

Eeehhh? The world has been working with gold and silver coins for millenia.


Those machines and tools are expensive

Also, most cashiers would not even know the exchange rate of gold/silver to local currency.

And how to handle change? Return fiat?

1. You don't get it. If gold and silver ARE currency, they do not need an exchange rate. They are the currency.

2. As for the machines and tools, there are plastic testers like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohKdBJzwlYY

Pretty effective for diameter/weight/thickness... if the composition is correct, all parameters are checked.

3. Change = silver and copper, as it has been historically.

Pre-1933:

20$ = gold coin
10$ = gold coin
5$ = gold coin
2.5$ = gold coin
1$ = silver coin
0.5$ = silver coin
0.25$ = silver coin
0.1$ = silver coin
0.05 / 0.01 = non-silver (copper/nickel).

This has been that way for more time than the opposite (paper currency backed by nothing).
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
It's not a poor medium of exchange. It's suitable for high worth transactions. Silver for low worth.

Really?  Your average cashier can identify fraudulent coins with 99%+ accuracy?

There are machines or tools that are pretty easy to use for that.

Quote
Gold and silver and completely worthless as a medium of exchange.

Eeehhh? The world has been working with gold and silver coins for millenia.


Those machines and tools are expensive

Also, most cashiers would not even know the exchange rate of gold/silver to local currency.

And how to handle change? Return fiat?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
It's not a poor medium of exchange. It's suitable for high worth transactions. Silver for low worth.

Really?  Your average cashier can identify fraudulent coins with 99%+ accuracy?

There are machines or tools that are pretty easy to use for that.

Quote
Gold and silver and completely worthless as a medium of exchange.

Eeehhh? The world has been working with gold and silver coins for millenia.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
It's not a poor medium of exchange. It's suitable for high worth transactions. Silver for low worth.

Really?  Your average cashier can identify fraudulent coins with 99%+ accuracy?  Easy to weigh, validate purity, check dimensions?  Effective for use in eCommerce, mail/phone order transactions, and in money/value transfers to a different location?  Gold and silver and completely worthless as a medium of exchange.  They retain a high price because they are still effective as a store of value (for now).
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
A medium of exchange should also be a measure of value. The fact that goods are priced in the same currency helps a lot making purchase decisions. Having to do all the math to be able to decide and pay daily groceries or similar items in gold or silver wouldn't be helpful.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
gold is a great store of value but a pretty poor medium of exchange (try to buy a loaf of bread at the local supermarket with a gold coin)

so even though you could technically spend gold, it's not a really great medium of exchange in everyday life.

It's not a poor medium of exchange. It's suitable for high worth transactions. Silver for low worth.

In the same sense, fiat currency coins are for low worth, paper notes for high worth. Each one for a different task.

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
gold is a great store of value but a pretty poor medium of exchange (try to buy a loaf of bread at the local supermarket with a gold coin)

so even though you could technically spend gold, it's not a really great medium of exchange in everyday life.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Who's there?
In times of high inflation (like 20 or 30%), money will be a terrible store of value, but will keep its function as means of exchange.
Provided it stores it's value for the duration of the exchange. Smiley

I can accept your perspective, but the notion of store of value seems to have, at least, a median term sense.

Would you call a gift card with 24h of validity a mean of store of value? The notion seems to imply a lasting safe haven.
Agree. While technically correct "store of value" here can be misleading, since the common usage implies "long-term". So we would have to say  short-term and long-term store of value which won't be improvement over the current usage Sad 
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
In times of high inflation (like 20 or 30%), money will be a terrible store of value, but will keep its function as means of exchange.
Provided it stores it's value for the duration of the exchange. Smiley

I can accept your perspective, but the notion of store of value seems to have, at least, a median term sense.

Would you call a gift card with 24h of validity a mean of store of value? The notion seems to imply a lasting safe haven.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
The notion of mean of exchange implies certain characteristics that store of value doesn't require: divisibility, liquidity or transportability.

This.  A 40KG gold bullion bar is a store of value.  It is not a very good medium of exchange.  Gold in general has always remained a store of value however over time it became an inferior medium of exchange.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
In times of high inflation (like 20 or 30%), money will be a terrible store of value, but will keep its function as means of exchange.

The western world is closer to that type of inflation than most realize. I love the philosophy of bit coin and the exciting new technological world it will create, but I also collect it as a hedge against the coming inflation.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Who's there?
In times of high inflation (like 20 or 30%), money will be a terrible store of value, but will keep its function as means of exchange.
Provided it stores it's value for the duration of the exchange. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
May 29, 2014, 11:04:37 PM
#9
In times of high inflation (like 20 or 30%), money will be a terrible store of value, but will keep its function as means of exchange.
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