"Stress Tests", Spammers, Attacks: Burning My Butt. Very Bad.

zz11

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Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I have been sending transactions with 0.3 mBTC and they always get included in the first block. You might need more if your transaction size is larger.

jbreher

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lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: dothebeats on July 08, 2015, 01:05:13 PM

Quote from: sturle on July 08, 2015, 12:59:01 PM

Quote from: dothebeats on July 08, 2015, 12:49:39 PM

Even if they get confirmed at the exact same time? Which transaction will be flagged as invalid by the network? The one with the fees or the one without fees?

It is not possible. If they confirm in the same block, the block is invalid and will be discarded by all full nodes.

Oh now I get it. It would only be accepted by the nodes if I have sufficient balance to cover for the two transactions.

Not quite. The network knows nothing of your balance. It only knows of your unspent output. Which can only be unspent until it is spent.

jbreher

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lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: SISAR on July 08, 2015, 12:39:04 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on July 08, 2015, 11:45:37 AM

If BTC were to fall to dirt cheap some day, it means people are losing faith with cryptocurrency and there is no denying that the other cryptocurrency will follow the same path as well. The altcoins are merely nothing without BTC anyway

Wrong. There is not a single older tech that has not been replaced by advanced and better tech. For example, Netscape Navigator to MS IE to Firefox to now Chrome, with Internet web-browsers.

Mmmm Hmmm. Which is why, of course, the only browser used is Chrome, having summarily eradicated all other browsers, including IE and Firefox from the face of the earth.

protip - you may want to check the following: https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2&qpcustomd=0

Quote

Right now you can start using altcoins as a way to move BTC from exchange to exchange faster than using Bitcoin network or you can continue bitching and whinning here all you want, your choice.

Third alternative: enclose a sufficient transaction fee, and get your trasactions confirmed almost immediately. As reports of experiments directly upthread report.

Quote

Nothing more to add to this debate.

dothebeats

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Quote from: favdesu on July 10, 2015, 12:15:49 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 10, 2015, 12:13:08 PM

Quote from: dothebeats on July 10, 2015, 11:56:14 AM

Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I did a transaction on the 9th of July with only 0.0001 btc and my transaction went through and was confirmed within a span of 30 minutes. Has there been any stress testing occurring in the blockchain as of this moment?

There's still between 13MB - 14MB of transactions queued, so unless we've seen a sudden and unexpected spike in legitimate usage (which seems an unlikely coincidence), it's fair to assume that either there's still some testing going on, or it recently finished and we haven't cleared the backlog yet. According to statoshi, we peaked at 152 transactions per second earlier today.

the current mempool size is around 70mb, so it's still a way to go before it's safe to use the usual fees https://tradeblock.com/blockchain

Yes, safe, but the consequence is you'll need to wait for longer times before you see your transaction confirmed, which is annoying and irritating. In order to get your transaction confirmed faster, you need to set a higher fee than the usual. I don't like that.

dothebeats

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Quote from: DooMAD on July 10, 2015, 12:13:08 PM

Quote from: dothebeats on July 10, 2015, 11:56:14 AM

Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I did a transaction on the 9th of July with only 0.0001 btc and my transaction went through and was confirmed within a span of 30 minutes. Has there been any stress testing occurring in the blockchain as of this moment?

There's still between 13MB - 14MB of transactions queued, so unless we've seen a sudden and unexpected spike in legitimate usage (which seems an unlikely coincidence), it's fair to assume that either there's still some testing going on, or it recently finished and we haven't cleared the backlog yet. According to statoshi, we peaked at 152 transactions per second earlier today.

Hmm the transaction peak seemed to point out that there might be some testing still going on, though we cannot differentiate thoroughly what is made legitimately or what is made as a part of the testing. There are still 10000+ unconfirmed transactions as of this moment, still a 14MB transaction queue.

EDIT: 11000+ unconfirmed transactions as of this moment.

favdesu

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Quote from: DooMAD on July 10, 2015, 12:13:08 PM

Quote from: dothebeats on July 10, 2015, 11:56:14 AM

Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I did a transaction on the 9th of July with only 0.0001 btc and my transaction went through and was confirmed within a span of 30 minutes. Has there been any stress testing occurring in the blockchain as of this moment?

There's still between 13MB - 14MB of transactions queued, so unless we've seen a sudden and unexpected spike in legitimate usage (which seems an unlikely coincidence), it's fair to assume that either there's still some testing going on, or it recently finished and we haven't cleared the backlog yet. According to statoshi, we peaked at 152 transactions per second earlier today.

the current mempool size is around 70mb, so it's still a way to go before it's safe to use the usual fees https://tradeblock.com/blockchain

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: dothebeats on July 10, 2015, 11:56:14 AM

Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I did a transaction on the 9th of July with only 0.0001 btc and my transaction went through and was confirmed within a span of 30 minutes. Has there been any stress testing occurring in the blockchain as of this moment?

There's still between 13MB - 14MB of transactions queued, so unless we've seen a sudden and unexpected spike in legitimate usage (which seems an unlikely coincidence), it's fair to assume that either there's still some testing going on, or it recently finished and we haven't cleared the backlog yet. According to statoshi, we peaked at 152 transactions per second earlier today.

dothebeats

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Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

I did a transaction on the 9th of July with only 0.0001 btc and my transaction went through and was confirmed within a span of 30 minutes. Has there been any stress testing occurring in the blockchain as of this moment?

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

Thanks, I was trying to find that thread. Cheers.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: tspacepilot on July 09, 2015, 07:29:23 PM

I've been deciding not to do anything different and I'm paying the consequences. Small ones, but annoyances for sure. I just realized that a transaction I sent yesterday to a cold storage address hasn't confirmed yet. It's not really a big deal because, as I said, it's going to a savings address and it will get confirmed eventually, but it's still quite an annoyance. 27K unconfirmed is a lot. Does anyone know yet who's behind this latest attack?

Here:

Quote from: gmaxwell on July 09, 2015, 07:24:37 PM

Quote from: interbtc on July 09, 2015, 07:07:06 PM

-clip-

-snip-

Quote from: smoothie on July 09, 2015, 07:09:43 PM

-nip-

-cut-

Quote from: notbatman on July 09, 2015, 07:13:23 PM

-rip-

A big chunk of them originate from this transaction: 3bad15167c60de483cd32cb990d1e46f0a0d8ab380e3fc1cace01afc9c1bb5af if you can figure out whos exchange withdraw this-- since this key immediately began making the attack txn itself is you may have some very concrete evidence about whos attacking here.

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

I've been deciding not to do anything different and I'm paying the consequences. Small ones, but annoyances for sure. I just realized that a transaction I sent yesterday to a cold storage address hasn't confirmed yet. It's not really a big deal because, as I said, it's going to a savings address and it will get confirmed eventually, but it's still quite an annoyance. 27K unconfirmed is a lot. Does anyone know yet who's behind this latest attack?

Coef

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Exhausted

Quote from: traderbit on July 09, 2015, 06:08:24 PM

assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

If your transaction is a normal one (eg. 1 input, 2 outputs, and a size of ~230 byte), then yes it will very likely get confirmed in the next block. But if your transaction has lots of inputs and outputs, then the answer would be a no.

FYI: http://bitcoinexchangerate.org/fees

Quote

Bitcoin Core Fee Estimates -------------------
Blocks ---- mBTC/KB
1 1.35162
6 0.58939
12 0.26809
24 0.05

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: monsanto on July 07, 2015, 02:32:36 AM

Quote from: S4VV4S on July 07, 2015, 02:22:17 AM

That is true.
If you don't put something to the test, then you do not know what it can handle or not and how it will perform.
None the less, the testers did inform the community about the upcoming test.
What if it was an actual attack by a malicious party with NO warning/announcement of what's coming?

If an attacker had a large enough short position, it could be profitable for the attacker to fund a prolonged attack.

Or if some nefarious party wanted to do it for kicks. It's insanely inexpensive.

Quote from: RodeoX on July 08, 2015, 10:11:55 AM

I think banning any low fee Tx is a reasonable countermeasure. Remember the so called "test" costs money to launch. I do not support asking them to stop, I support bleeding them dry if they want to continue DDOSing the blockchain.

Works for me^

OROBTC

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...

traderbit

Since the attacks started, I have sent two small BTC transactions (one on July 6, one this afternoon), both with a generous BTC0.0006 (= $0.13, 13 US cents). Both transactions were confirmed by the next block.

It does look like the way to finesse these attacks (at least for now) is just to be generous to the miners. They have a big role in our Bitcoin Ecosystem.

Agree with above sturle's comments about BTC-friendly miners. But, I am no expert.

traderbit

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assuming I send with a .001 (25 cents) transaction fee, my transaction should go through in one of the first blocks no?

sturle

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https://bitmynt.no

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sturle on July 09, 2015, 01:42:36 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong. A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes. A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes. (Compressed keys, not multisig.) 0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both. High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

I stand corrected.

Still. Enjoy waiting 18hours for your transaction with 0.0001 BTC fee to get confirmed in the current conditions! The going rate at the moment is much higher.

It won't take that long. Some pools, e.g. Eligius, filters the spam. Some other pools, e.g. BitMinter, has set blockprioritysize to 500KB, half the block, to let high priority non-spammy transactions through regardless of fee. If only people could stop mining on the China pools, and move over to the more bitcoin friendly pools.

favdesu

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sturle on July 09, 2015, 01:42:36 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong. A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes. A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes. (Compressed keys, not multisig.) 0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both. High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

I stand corrected.

Still. Enjoy waiting 18hours for your transaction with 0.0001 BTC fee to get confirmed in the current conditions! The going rate at the moment is much higher.

indeed. it's better to set a higher tx fee for as long as this attack goes. even $0.20 in fees is nothing compared to other payment processors

sturle

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https://bitmynt.no

Quote from: ?? on ??

A normal (1 input - 1 output - regardless of the amount of BTC send) tx is about 0.6kb --> min 0.0003 BTC in tx fee

Wrong. A typical 1 input - 1 output tx is 192 bytes. A more typical 1-2 or 2-1 is about 226 bytes. (Compressed keys, not multisig.) 0.0001 BTC fee is fine for both. High priority transactions will still confirm with no fees.

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: SISAR on July 08, 2015, 12:39:04 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on July 08, 2015, 11:45:37 AM

Quote from: SISAR on July 08, 2015, 11:11:07 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on July 08, 2015, 10:56:40 AM

I thought most people here support BTC rather than altcoin? So now people are suggesting to ignore micropayment and ask them to shift into altcoin instead? lol

That is beside my point but in any case if you support just Bitcoin you are not really smart, like people supporting just gold or silver or Facebook stock or whatever other single-point-of-failure stuff.

If BTC were to fall to dirt cheap some day, it means people are losing faith with cryptocurrency and there is no denying that the other cryptocurrency will follow the same path as well. The altcoins are merely nothing without BTC anyway

Wrong. There is not a single older tech that has not been replaced by advanced and better tech. For example, Netscape Navigator to MS IE to Firefox to now Chrome, with Internet web-browsers.

Right now you can start using altcoins as a way to move BTC from exchange to exchange faster than using Bitcoin network or you can continue bitching and whinning here all you want, your choice.

Nothing more to add to this debate.

I agree, I think bitcoin will be surpassed by another cryptocurrency, the only question is when. If there can be consensus on certain decisions and changes can be implemented the time until that happens can be extended, and might be a long time away. If not, it will happen sooner. Either way, network effect or not, there are some things that will be just easier to implement in a new system rather than trying to come to a consensus in order to change an already existing decentralized system.

slacknation

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Quote from: OROBTC on July 08, 2015, 11:57:57 AM

...

Following up on Xialla's experience, I sent a small amount as a test (roughly 0.005 BTC) with a fairly large fee (BTC 0.0006) to see how long it would take at about 10:30 PM US ET on July 6.

Confirmed by the next block. And second confirmation by the next one after that.

For me, getting a "real payment" (say, over $1.00) confirmed, even at a higher amount of fee (and I would think that a BTC 0.0002 would be reasonable), is much important than being able to send out $0.20 for free......

But, hey, that's just me.

(Edited for correct amount sent and date, doh!)

there is a lot of confusion as bitcoin had been known famously for free transactions

Topic: "Stress Tests", Spammers, Attacks: Burning My Butt. Very Bad. (Read 5344 times)