Surge in Bankruptcy Filings And Economic Crisis Vs Recession Vs BTC Price - page 2.

Sayeds56

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Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 02:11:42 PM

Isn't it a common practice to sell assets during an economic crisis? It is true that the stock market and bitcoin have a strong correlation, and they both react to certain economic factors. There are people who think if they invest in the stock market, they won't get their money back, and there are people with the same mindset towards bitcoin as well.

Missmanagement and corruption are the reasons behind this bankruptcy, and there are some internal bad actors as well.

Selling assets during an economic crisis can be common practice, but it largely depends on an individual's financial situation, risk tolerance and investment goals. Bitcoin and stocks are two different asset classes and may react differently to economic crisis. How Bitcoin reacts to sever economic crisis, remains uncertain, as since its introduction in 2009, it has not experienced a serious economic meltdown.

It is true that mismanagement, corruption and internal bad actors can be behind bankruptcy of any company, these issues often come to the forefront when interest rates are higher and broader economic environment is unfavorable.

blue Snow

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Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

And periods like this historically occur before significant stock market crashes. Will this affect the price of BTC too. If the entire market falls, does it rule out the possibility that there will be a sell off too? and of course BTC will also be affected?

The Bitcoin price movements are sometimes the same as the shares and stock, but not always. Several years ago, the Bitcoin price turned around and created a candle opposite with stock. But sometimes both create the same direction. With the condition, we don't have to panic and fear about the situation, as we know even the 2020 condition is bad, but the bitcoin price creates a new ATH after that. If this year has the same situation, we just be patient and hold it after going back like 2021.

Husires

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I am not sure of the sources on which @WhaleWire based its report, but let us not forget that we are in the year preceding the election year, and all the news needs to read it several times, and I remember that every year such reports come that say that what is coming is worse and that we will face a crisis like what happened in the year 2008.
What happened in 2008 will not be repeated easily or in a way that everyone will be able to know, but data from some official links is up for discussion.

https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-reports/analysis-reports/bankruptcy-filings-statistics

Quote

Bankruptcy filings are reported quarterly for each 12-month period ending March 31, June 30, September 30, and December 31. The following tables are available:

Business and non-business bankruptcy filings (Table F-2, 12-month);
Bankruptcy data for the 12-month periods (Table F);

Refer to the official data link above and you will find that the report is misleading.

lombok

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Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 03:58:00 PM

I won't say there isn't any chance that bitcoin will be declared a legal tender, but the chance is very low. USA officials tend to take an anti-crypto policy, but due to pressure, they declare bitcoin a commodity. I think the SEC will try hard regulation, and the government will impose high taxes to discourage people from using bitcoin. They will try to spread negativity about bitcoin to promote CBDC as better than bitcoin.

This scheme is only to digitize USD or currency under the pretext of cryptography that BTC has been raising so far. For people who know very well about crypto, they will think twice about CBDC later. Because CBDC is not the intention or purpose of establishing blockchain and Bitcoin, CBDC is purely a ploy for the government or authorities to continue to monopolize the digital USD.

Quote from: crwth on September 26, 2023, 07:28:39 PM

You do remember that in COVID, nothing survived right? Everything went down so much that nothing really survived and everybody cashed out. What would be the difference now if it continues with this economy?

And I almost forgot that this crisis is also exacerbated by increasing tensions between Russia and Nato. Which causes increases in oil and food prices. If it continues, I am sure from the graph above that it will still be able to rise.

Hopefully this incident will end soon and return to normal. There is already too much FUD floating around, things are not always bad and not always good because the wheels will continue to turn and turn.

Jatiluhung

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At least I personally have started withdrawing the funds I have in shares. I withdrew it because there was also a fairly large withdrawal last week. Even the Stock Marketcap in the US lost around 1 trillion dollars last week. So we should be able to see the big picture of where the withdrawn funds are going. And one of them is expected to also include Bitcoin.

Maybe Bitcoin could experience a final downturn before a true bullish halving occurs. But usually before a big decline, prices tend to increase first. Maybe this is just my speculation. And yeah, let's just call it bullshit because it is bullshit. But I feel that at the end of this year and at the beginning of this year there will be a little bullish phase for bitcoin. Because I believe that funds withdrawn from the stock market will probably not go into Gold very much. The development of the times and shifts in thinking may cause more funds to enter Bitcoin. Because indirectly we can see that many people consider Bitcoin to be a fairly safe asset storage. If it's a store of value then Gold is superior. But if storage is secure then Bitcoin I think is safer. But I don't know, nowadays sometimes the games on the market are much wilder than in previous years. Not only in crypto but also in stocks.

tabas

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Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

https://twitter.com/WhaleWire/status/1705776976089256341?t=PtzaGiRaDcbdjzwFDYF3Bg&s=19

There is data from WhaleWire regarding the surge in corporate bankruptcy filings which reached the same level as past economic crises such as the Great Recession in 2008 and the pandemic in 2020. This certainly raises concerns for the world economy.

The concern is valid and we're seeing the domino effect of it through many layoffs from various companies, and note, these are the huge companies that employes thousands of employees.

Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

And periods like this historically occur before significant stock market crashes. Will this affect the price of BTC too. If the entire market falls, does it rule out the possibility that there will be a sell off too? and of course BTC will also be affected?

While we can say that the BTC market is inversely proportional. There are times that it is directly proportional from it. The point here is that, we'll never know that but if we'll look at the basics of Bitcoin, we can be of the same opinion that it's also getting some touch of the global markets and whatever happens to it and then will eventually locks out from the tie it's getting from it.

crwth

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Quote from: lombok on September 26, 2023, 01:34:23 AM

cash out at the current BTC price? You are sure? 🤣 I'm sure you have doubts too 😅

I'm not sure that's why I said maybe lol. Grin

. I don't want to exchange my BTC TBH but I want to take advantage of the price IF it goes down or something.

Quote from: lombok on September 26, 2023, 01:34:23 AM

Many young startups cannot survive due to Covid and this is made worse by the still bad economic situation. Even if this happens sooner, I'm sure there is still one place to survive, Gold or Bitcoin, but I doubt stocks.

You do remember that in COVID, nothing survived right? Everything went down so much that nothing really survived and everybody cashed out. What would be the difference now if it continues with this economy?

Captain Corporate

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To be fair this could still be the ripple effect on what we had so far and I do not think that it will change anytime soon. I think its quite clear that we are going to end up with something that will matter more than people realizes, and that is why we should be trying to do something that will change a lot on the long term. I get that it may not be all that great, but we could still make it work with what we are going to get. Just because we have been through something hard, doesn't mean we should lay our weapons, just keep trying to get better and try to avoid all this situation. I am not personally doing great neither, but that doesn't mean that I will stop trying to do better.

DVlog

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Quote from: South Park on September 26, 2023, 03:49:55 PM

Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 02:48:27 PM

I do agree with you that the govt will try to use CBDC to distribute this type of package but I don't think they will declare BTC as a legal tender. I think it's the opposite that they will go for hard regulation or not-so-reasonable taxation.

The fall of PPP is constant and there is nothing we can do about it. The more new paper cash comes into circulation the more it will come down. This is another reason the rally of BTC looks so fast and dramatic.

If we take a look at what has happened when a government is in power and the economy begins to go out of control, what we will see is that they will begin to restrict the freedoms of their people, like only allowing to withdraw a small amount of money out of your savings account, ban the use of foreign currencies, confiscations, banning gold, price controls and many other similar measures, then it is clear to me that in that scenario bitcoin will be either banned or regulated as much as possible, and there is almost no chance at all that it would be declared to be legal tender.

I won't say there isn't any chance that bitcoin will be declared a legal tender, but the chance is very low. USA officials tend to take an anti-crypto policy, but due to pressure, they declare bitcoin a commodity. I think the SEC will try hard regulation, and the government will impose high taxes to discourage people from using bitcoin. They will try to spread negativity about bitcoin to promote CBDC as better than bitcoin.

South Park

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Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 02:48:27 PM

I do agree with you that the govt will try to use CBDC to distribute this type of package but I don't think they will declare BTC as a legal tender. I think it's the opposite that they will go for hard regulation or not-so-reasonable taxation.

The fall of PPP is constant and there is nothing we can do about it. The more new paper cash comes into circulation the more it will come down. This is another reason the rally of BTC looks so fast and dramatic.

If we take a look at what has happened when a government is in power and the economy begins to go out of control, what we will see is that they will begin to restrict the freedoms of their people, like only allowing to withdraw a small amount of money out of your savings account, ban the use of foreign currencies, confiscations, banning gold, price controls and many other similar measures, then it is clear to me that in that scenario bitcoin will be either banned or regulated as much as possible, and there is almost no chance at all that it would be declared to be legal tender.

Mate2237

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Economic Meltdown affect businesses, human live, and corporations because at that economic downturn period, people are not doing business so everything is just stagnant. livelihood very costly. And this is what happened in the year 2020 because there was restriction of human movement across the world so businesses were stopped. And with that bitcoin was affect badly, and the price was down. It was after when the curfew was lifted in the world from the Covid 19 pandemic of 2020 that businesses returned to normalcy and bitcoin also bounced back in 2021.

World economic recession affect all sphere of the economic activities in the world. There is no two ways about it whenever there is crisis, bitcoin surge in the bad economy.

DVlog

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Quote from: cabron on September 26, 2023, 02:39:37 PM

Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 02:11:42 PM

Quote from: Sayeds56 on September 26, 2023, 01:38:58 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on September 25, 2023, 11:48:09 PM

When I registered on the forum the general belief was that a crisis would favour bitcoin but if we see that in March 2020 it went down like all financial assets and that the inflation crisis and rate hikes by central banks have not been good for it either, I doubt that if we enter a crisis like the one in 2008 the price will react well.

What I am pretty sure of, however, is that if that happens the central banks will change their policy, print again as if there is no tomorrow and that will be good for the price of bitcoin, the post-crisis, where much of that printed money will flow into bitcoin.

I held the similar views about Bitcoin that its price will surge during the economic crisis, when I first ventured into the world of Bitcoin investment back in 2017. However, during the course of my journey, I learned that Bitcoin has very strong correlation with stock market and both markets are indeed influenced by CPI data or interest rate announcements. This correlation suggests that general public tends to sell various assets in their possession, including Bitcoins, during the period of economic crisis to fulfill their basic needs.

Regrading surge in bankruptcy filing, it is very disturbing development. I believe this issue will may find some solution when FED starts reducing the interest rates in an effort to stimulate economic growth.

Isn't it a common practice to sell assets during an economic crisis? It is true that the stock market and bitcoin have a strong correlation, and they both react to certain economic factors. There are people who think if they invest in the stock market, they won't get their money back, and there are people with the same mindset towards bitcoin as well.

Missmanagement and corruption are the reasons behind this bankruptcy, and there are some internal bad actors as well.

It will likely just be a quick decline for BTC and then pump up again going to the bull market. I would like to believe FED will start distributing stimulus packages again but this time they are turning the cash into digital currencies and this is where we can see more users are going to buy BTC as well. BTC will rise above all this turmoil and the government may declare it a legal tender.

While BTC goes up in value, the USD also will drop its purchasing power. Meaning BTC may have $100K in price but the purchasing power may also be suppressed because of USD value.

I do agree with you that the govt will try to use CBDC to distribute this type of package but I don't think they will declare BTC as a legal tender. I think it's the opposite that they will go for hard regulation or not-so-reasonable taxation.

The fall of PPP is constant and there is nothing we can do about it. The more new paper cash comes into circulation the more it will come down. This is another reason the rally of BTC looks so fast and dramatic.

cabron

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Quote from: DVlog on September 26, 2023, 02:11:42 PM

Quote from: Sayeds56 on September 26, 2023, 01:38:58 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on September 25, 2023, 11:48:09 PM

When I registered on the forum the general belief was that a crisis would favour bitcoin but if we see that in March 2020 it went down like all financial assets and that the inflation crisis and rate hikes by central banks have not been good for it either, I doubt that if we enter a crisis like the one in 2008 the price will react well.

What I am pretty sure of, however, is that if that happens the central banks will change their policy, print again as if there is no tomorrow and that will be good for the price of bitcoin, the post-crisis, where much of that printed money will flow into bitcoin.

I held the similar views about Bitcoin that its price will surge during the economic crisis, when I first ventured into the world of Bitcoin investment back in 2017. However, during the course of my journey, I learned that Bitcoin has very strong correlation with stock market and both markets are indeed influenced by CPI data or interest rate announcements. This correlation suggests that general public tends to sell various assets in their possession, including Bitcoins, during the period of economic crisis to fulfill their basic needs.

Regrading surge in bankruptcy filing, it is very disturbing development. I believe this issue will may find some solution when FED starts reducing the interest rates in an effort to stimulate economic growth.

Isn't it a common practice to sell assets during an economic crisis? It is true that the stock market and bitcoin have a strong correlation, and they both react to certain economic factors. There are people who think if they invest in the stock market, they won't get their money back, and there are people with the same mindset towards bitcoin as well.

Missmanagement and corruption are the reasons behind this bankruptcy, and there are some internal bad actors as well.

It will likely just be a quick decline for BTC and then pump up again going to the bull market. I would like to believe FED will start distributing stimulus packages again but this time they are turning the cash into digital currencies and this is where we can see more users are going to buy BTC as well. BTC will rise above all this turmoil and the government may declare it a legal tender.

While BTC goes up in value, the USD also will drop its purchasing power. Meaning BTC may have $100K in price but the purchasing power may also be suppressed because of USD value.

Gozie51

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I don't think this bankruptcy and troubled economic situation will have that kind of effect on bitcoin price at least not now that most people have DCA in btc in expectation of btc price surge after halving next year. Moreover, in 2020 COVID-19 didn't bring the price of bitcoin. In fact bitcoin became safe heaven for investors who feared their fiat would be worthless as inflation was gradually increasing because economies got shot down leading to increase in prices of goods. So I don't think bankruptcy will disrupt the price increase of bitcoin because investors would like to leverage fiat they have on btc and that should cause more appreciation of price of btc.

DVlog

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on September 26, 2023, 01:38:58 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on September 25, 2023, 11:48:09 PM

When I registered on the forum the general belief was that a crisis would favour bitcoin but if we see that in March 2020 it went down like all financial assets and that the inflation crisis and rate hikes by central banks have not been good for it either, I doubt that if we enter a crisis like the one in 2008 the price will react well.

What I am pretty sure of, however, is that if that happens the central banks will change their policy, print again as if there is no tomorrow and that will be good for the price of bitcoin, the post-crisis, where much of that printed money will flow into bitcoin.

I held the similar views about Bitcoin that its price will surge during the economic crisis, when I first ventured into the world of Bitcoin investment back in 2017. However, during the course of my journey, I learned that Bitcoin has very strong correlation with stock market and both markets are indeed influenced by CPI data or interest rate announcements. This correlation suggests that general public tends to sell various assets in their possession, including Bitcoins, during the period of economic crisis to fulfill their basic needs.

Regrading surge in bankruptcy filing, it is very disturbing development. I believe this issue will may find some solution when FED starts reducing the interest rates in an effort to stimulate economic growth.

Isn't it a common practice to sell assets during an economic crisis? It is true that the stock market and bitcoin have a strong correlation, and they both react to certain economic factors. There are people who think if they invest in the stock market, they won't get their money back, and there are people with the same mindset towards bitcoin as well.

Missmanagement and corruption are the reasons behind this bankruptcy, and there are some internal bad actors as well.

Sayeds56

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on September 25, 2023, 11:48:09 PM

When I registered on the forum the general belief was that a crisis would favour bitcoin but if we see that in March 2020 it went down like all financial assets and that the inflation crisis and rate hikes by central banks have not been good for it either, I doubt that if we enter a crisis like the one in 2008 the price will react well.

What I am pretty sure of, however, is that if that happens the central banks will change their policy, print again as if there is no tomorrow and that will be good for the price of bitcoin, the post-crisis, where much of that printed money will flow into bitcoin.

I held the similar views about Bitcoin that its price will surge during the economic crisis, when I first ventured into the world of Bitcoin investment back in 2017. However, during the course of my journey, I learned that Bitcoin has very strong correlation with stock market and both markets are indeed influenced by CPI data or interest rate announcements. This correlation suggests that general public tends to sell various assets in their possession, including Bitcoins, during the period of economic crisis to fulfill their basic needs.

Regrading surge in bankruptcy filing, it is very disturbing development. I believe this issue may find some solution when FED starts reducing the interest rates in an effort to stimulate economic growth.

Aanuoluwatofunmi

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Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

https://twitter.com/WhaleWire/status/1705776976089256341?t=PtzaGiRaDcbdjzwFDYF3Bg&s=19

There is data from WhaleWire regarding the surge in corporate bankruptcy filings which reached the same level as past economic crises such as the Great Recession in 2008 and the pandemic in 2020. This certainly raises concerns for the world economy.

And periods like this historically occur before significant stock market crashes. Will this affect the price of BTC too. If the entire market falls, does it rule out the possibility that there will be a sell off too? and of course BTC will also be affected?

Share your opinion

It's true that when we look back to the previous economical crisis we had with the natural pandemic, we can see how bad the entire world economy had been affected, many organizations and businesses have recovered from this while a large number of some others are yet to find their bearing to a unified direction after this, then the question rises that whom to blame, naturally things occur and they became inevitable for us to bear their consequences as we've seen with the pandemic, but what are the way forward for us through this, what plan do we keep to serve an a second choice for a survival, all eggs must not be in a basket.

Spaceman1000$

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Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

https://twitter.com/WhaleWire/status/1705776976089256341?t=PtzaGiRaDcbdjzwFDYF3Bg&s=19

There is data from WhaleWire regarding the surge in corporate bankruptcy filings which reached the same level as past economic crises such as the Great Recession in 2008 and the pandemic in 2020. This certainly raises concerns for the world economy.

And periods like this historically occur before significant stock market crashes. Will this affect the price of BTC too. If the entire market falls, does it rule out the possibility that there will be a sell off too? and of course BTC will also be affected?

Share your opinion

I don't think there will be a stock market crash anymore at the moment, generally speaking the effect of economic crisis, recession and inflation is already here as we speak, nations struggling economically to manage the situation, so i believe we are at the breaking point of coming out of this ugly situation globally.

So the entire market will not fall, at the heat of COVID-19 the entire market didn't fall, how much more now that nations and global economy is trying to stabilise.
Bitcoin has stood the test of time, all this inductions will not stop the value and rise of bitcoin in market.

Ucy

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Quote from: lombok on September 25, 2023, 11:10:04 PM

........

There is data from WhaleWire regarding the surge in corporate bankruptcy filings which reached the same level as past economic crises such as the Great Recession in 2008 and the pandemic in 2020. This certainly raises concerns for the world economy.

And periods like this historically occur before significant stock market crashes. Will this affect the price of BTC too. If the entire market falls, does it rule out the possibility that there will be a sell off too? and of course BTC will also be affected?

Share your opinion

Bitcoin is nolonger tethered to such economic fundamentals. It's currently tethered to its own ideals.
People who had influence over Bitcoin in the past were the wrong kind of people who heavily depended on the centralized financial system to influence it. When something unpleasant happened to the financial system it affected Bitcoin negatively. Things has changed for good as Bitcoin was disconnected from the bad system and connected back to its true purpose which is what will determine how well it does in the future.

A failing centralized financial system won't affect Bitcoin negatively. It's expected that people who depend on the system will move over to Bitcoin as the system fails gradually.

lombok

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Quote from: Zlantann on September 26, 2023, 04:09:32 AM

Bitcoin price is determined by the law of demand and supply. If the world economy is in turmoil people might not have money to buy Bitcoin and other might have to dump the coin which means the price will reduce. And the public will prefer to invest in more stable commodities. Unfortunately, Bitcoin is now connected to the global economic system, and financial issues like the performance of stocks and interest rates (especially in the US) affect the price. If the economy of the world crashes the Bitcoin ecosystem will be heavily affected.

I think your answer is very relevant regarding BTC price movements in the world economy. What I feel is that any important US data releases, in particular, have a volatility impact that can cause BTC price movements.

Quote from: Jawhead999 on September 26, 2023, 04:40:11 AM

It's not because Covid anymore, but Russian invasion to Ukraine which still not cleared yet. This make the fuel and foods price increase due to shortage, the best solution is Russian need to back and end this invasion. If it's still continue, we will face more hard time because inflation keep rising.

I think Covid news is already gone, although the infection is still possible.

Ah yes, I forgot about the Russia vs Ukraine war. It's true that oil prices in my country have just risen and food has also risen. I also trade vegetables and fruit at the traditional market near where I live and it is very difficult to make a profit these days.

If the war continues and breaks out in a big way, I don't know what the fate of stocks and crypto, especially Bitcoin, will be like. But I hope this will be over soon because many will suffer.

Topic: Surge in Bankruptcy Filings And Economic Crisis Vs Recession Vs BTC Price - page 2. (Read 294 times)