Topic: Sustainable alternative to bitcoin - page 2. (Read 347 times)

Are you really buying those narratives saying that bitcoin is destroying the nature? I don't know why there's lots of people believe such nonsense thoughts since if you look at the other causes for sure those big companies producing toxic waste pollution and car dealers is the one who's destroying our planet. Also for sure that we cannot see some changes which you think for bitcoin since provably that Bitcoin will remain like that. This is the reason why there's lots of institution likes bitcoin since from current state bitcoin is cannot be controlled by anyone.

You may try to find some alts that may fit on what you are seeking, but Bitcoin will remain great compare to other alts out there.

I agree that we can generate energy in a lot of other ways, it doesn't mean that we can generate it forever, it just doesn't really feel that simple. Most green energy methods still can't even cover a tiny fraction of what we have, and that means we are going to run out of energy sources eventually, so lowering the consumption is still the better method we have, because generating more isn't sustainable in the end.

What we need is to figure out the security part of bitcoin, because otherwise, we can just make it a proof of stake just like ethereum and be done with it, but we are not doing that because it would not be a simple thing to move all of this to a new chain and have the same security on it. It took ETH many years to do it and that was ETH, it would be near impossible for BTC.

why so fixated on reducing power consumption if you can seek greener energy like from nuclear plant?

moving forward I'd expect we will see cheaper electricity and energy in general because technology advances, at that point bitcoin's power consumption will just be a measly little consumption compared to the produced energy.
even right now so many of bitcoin miners are using green renewable energy.

even without bitcoin's big energy consumption we will eventually run out of fossil energy anyway. as for the reason why bitcoin consume that much power, it's because to mantain security of the blockchain, there's alternative like PoS, but the security is doubted.

honestly, even right now I don't think bitcoin consumes that much energy.

No. Until today nobody has been capable of innovating after what Satoshi did 15 years ago and it is also too soon to expect any revolution in the cryptocurrency world.

I don't know what you have in mind when you use the term "industrialized" but a PoW coin can be attacked only if mining were centralized. Something that is not true about bitcoin.

That would be like opening your fridge to cool down your house.

No, that is not possible. As I said above, there has been no revolutionary innovation after Bitcoin. The PoS algorithm was created a very long time ago and it quickly became obsolete because of the fundamental flaws in it. But because it helps shitcoins with premine to give the centralized authority a lot of profit, many shitcoins like ETH use it.

I liked you're reply. Thanks! Isn't there anything at the moment that similar to BTC but that has transaction acceptable for day to day use (like in a second or something), and that doesn't need an ASIC to be validated, but the computational power of a good phone or a normal pc, with a random reward? So big companies will not be that interested in the validation process if everyone could validate transaction just having their phone turned on that they have anyway btw



You should compare apples to apples, not apples with oranges. From a sustainability point of view Visa wins over BTC for example. For one BTC transaction I could make hundreds of thousands with the same energy consumption. If I want to mine BTC at this moment at home just for "believing in it" I will lose money in electricity everyday and polluting the environment for no reason



It would be cool to crowdfund to fork it right? Thanks for the reply. Sorry, but denying that bitcoin doesn't use that much energy it is a bit like saying that you believe that the earth is flat. There are trustable sources online that states that it uses more energy than entire countries. And it is not still that spread worldwide, imagine if everyone uses it multiple times a day. Maybe when it was thought the environmental impact of the technology wasn't taken into account? I like BTC over any other fiat currency, and satoshi and the community in general did a great job, but is it perfect? Can it be improved with this in mind? Is there anyone in the community working on it? or the "zealots" as you say are gone?

We’ve been here before with green energy zealots. Bitcoin really doesn’t use that much energy, if you don’t like the way it works you’re welcome to crowdfund to fork it & do your own thing. The anti Bitcoin power consumption rhetoric is dead, you’ll have to find something else to FUD about.

The gaming industry requires way more GPUs than Bitcoin technology. Companies with big infrastructures require frequent upgrades and updates in their machinery. I have never seen people talking about the trash being produced for all those things, but people start questioning Bitcoin and its technology as soon as they come to know it is mined using GPUs. The world was producing too much trash even before Bitcoin was created. So let's not consider that being a huge issue for human existence.


That doesn't matter. If you know its use cases and how it can benefit you, you can use it that way. Let people use it the way they want.


Here: Top 100 richest Bitcoin addresses

Every algorithm sooner or later tends to centralization.
The problem is that every protocol promotes competition instead of collaboration.

In proof of work the advantage is on the side of the entity(ies) that invest more energy
and efficiency in the process of mining therefore the ones who have more money
to invest in hardware have more chance to win the lottery.

In prof of stake the advantage is on the side of the entity(ies) that have more coins
and locks more coins into the process of staking therefore the ones who have more money
to buy the coins have more chance to win the lottery.

In both cases there is a limit to participation by the flawed design.

To be more sustainable and democratic the algorithm should allow everyone to participate without limit
and not favoring persons or entities with more money, otherwise is not better that the current fiat (financial) system.

I hope that sooner or later someone will find a better algorithm and protocol that will achieve this
but until then we have to live with what we have.

What makes bitcoin unsustainable?
What do you mean by "greener BTC"?

In future, I don't know what can happen but as things stand, I don't see any other coin that can have an overall better technology than Bitcoin while also having other features of Bitcoin.
developing another coin just like Bitcoin will just make it a copycat and people won't trust that kind of coin. Also, nobody will create a coin like bitcoin and not like to gain from it. I doubt people would like to do what Satoshi did with bitcoin.
The power consumption of bitcoin is something that is very overrated. A lot of other consumption we use every day consumes more power than Bitcoin. This power consumption gimmick was just another anti bitcoin gimmick.

Yeah but forget about the price, I do not really care if an altcoin is low in value, as it was BTC when it was born, if a tool fixes a problem it will get its evaluation correctly eventually. The main problem is that even if we use green energy every 6months/1 year a new ASIC miner comes out, way more efficient. What about the life cycle assessment of the old ones? It's not just about electricity. The amount of trash that gets produced is unimaginable and at the current state the main usage of BTC for normal people is to buy and hold or to speculate, not the "electronic cash" meant in the white paper. Is this PoS that big of a threat now that BTC is relatively well spread worldwide? Is there a way to trace wallets with a huge amount of BTC that can pose a threat to the system? Have those information ever been evaluated?

No, bitcoin would never switch to proof of stake, that would be 100 steps backward for the network, proof of stake consensus algorithm also promotes centralization, we can agree that it is not the best for a decentralized network.

Bitcoin functions just fine the way it is now, and some of the things you read about it in the mainstream media is just propaganda published to discourage people from using and supporting bitcoin.

This is been a long debate Bitcoin can be sustainable and can be much greener if all the miner using renewable energy that most of the bitcoin mining company trying do their best to fullfill this and a lot other gonna follow. The chip manufacturer of ASIC miner also always creating new efficient chip each year

Sustainable alternative to bitcoin if you want the altcoin than you can pick the Ethereum that already transition from the Proof of Work to Proof of Stake that much greener.

There are alternatives to bitcoin. But the question is are they worth it? Example is litecoin which is just a bitcoin carbon copy. But if you check its all-time high and compare it with today's price, you will noticed that it is not worth going for. Also is monero which most people will say is better than bitcoin when it comes to privacy, but if you check the price, you will also be discouraged. Others that I know are either centralized or not worth. Even bitcoin is far better than the altcoins as they are pump and dump. In term of adoption, no coin like bitcoin.

The concern is that it might make Bitcoin centralized, as those with substantial holdings could have greater influence over the network. Transitioning from PoW to PoS isn’t easy as well, as it requires community coordination. This idea has been discussed before, but Bitcoin has still operates using PoW, so I doubt that will change in the future. Miners will just need to find sustainable energy sources to keep their operations running.

Oh, and BTW, here's a unique source of energy use in mining (this will be added to the other sources we have - solar, wind, and hydroelectric).

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-news/el-salvador-plans-241-megawatt-renewable-plant-for-bitcoin-mining

Completely understand that, but mining is heavily industrialized at the moment and POW could suffer attacks from it, correct? I think this kind of defeat the whole purpose of decentralization. There are videos online of people that mine just to warm up their houses in winter and breaking it even. I do not think that is sustainable. Can BTC switch to PoS in the future and remaining safe at the same time?

No one can change how Bitcoin's system works, it’s built to consume a lot of power for mining. But the real solution isn’t to change Bitcoin; it’s to innovate in how we generate energy. with that said, renewable energy sources like solar and wind power are the key to addressing this.

As technology advances, we’ll have better ways to produce cleaner and more efficient energy. So, in the long run, power consumption won’t be as big of a problem. Instead, it’ll push us toward adopting more sustainable energy solutions, which benefits everyone, not just Bitcoin.

Could BTC become more sustainable for the planet in the future? Can a greener BTC become the best alternative to itself? If not, are there alternatives out there that share the same good aspect (safety, decentralization), without the power consumption of this technology? As a daily use, BTC is at the moment unsustainable from what I know. Are there technical aspect that can change in the bitcoin technology itself? is there another alternative?