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Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1299. (Read 3050076 times)

legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1018
HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com
October 17, 2013, 03:20:33 AM

This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Different mining calculators said that I couldn't lose and this was not high risk.



Should have looked at it likethis:

Hardware is a PC. Its pretty much a sunk cost...period.  Don't buy them with expectation of gaining anything.  This is like the same thing as Nuclear winter.  Can't start a hot war because then everyone who breathes the same air is now poisoned...just like how now that everyone has access to mondoloads of hashpower your sliver of that same size of pie is now going to be smaller than crumbs upon crumbs upon crumbs
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 03:17:48 AM

This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Different mining calculators said that I couldn't lose and this was not high risk.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
October 17, 2013, 03:14:46 AM
I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

This has been said before. May times over. Do not invest more than you can comfortably lose. And never, ever borrow money to put into high-risk investments.


Should of gotten coins instead of mining equiptment.

Even that can potentially give you a nice large negative ROI. Be prepared to lose.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Mining for the hell of it.
October 17, 2013, 03:13:58 AM
I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

Should of gotten coins instead of mining equiptment.



I wonder how long it will sit "in progress"
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
October 17, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever

What about Network protection statement? It's not KnC, but their hardware. The hardware itself is spread out among many players.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 03:12:33 AM
I get my miner tomorrow, and I would be lucky if I make ROI. I wish I could turn a profit. I wish i could pay off debts.

financial ruin:
I thought bitcoin would make my life better, but it has turned out to put me in debt.

Just when I thought I could get ahead, I don't make it.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 03:11:04 AM
KNCMINER hardware owns 20% of the network according to http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years/. What ever happened to "Network protection statement" ?

that article probably didn't calculate bitfury in, but whatever
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
October 17, 2013, 02:59:53 AM
What about Hashfast? They are coming online with at least 550 orders. Their chip could probably be overclocked to 600 gh/s. So that means about 330 terahash added.

330 TH is less than 15% of the current network, likely 10% by the time they ship.
Of course I do expect HF to ship considerably more than 550 babyjets.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 02:52:03 AM
Wow the genesisblock calculator updated.  Very grim...mining equipment will be lucky to make half of their value back.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

I think those who deny this will be very disappointed.  You aren't really competing against each other anymore hoping your neighbor drops out.  China is ramping up for their own large scale corporate farms.  http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheGenesisBlock/~3/W0-SZClMliA/

I see no reason to believe this won't keep expanding by small amounts of very wealthy people despite the average person bailing out.  You'll get far more BTC for your $ if just buying direct now.




Dude the hashrate is about to level out for a bit not, continue growing like this for a while. This has been the first shipment of a major die shrink. If anything it shows the genesis block was way off base all along, as I previously stated. This will be a huge step up over a couple of weeks and then there won't be anything in such a huge multiple in one go on to make such a marked effect on the hashrate again for sometime. More a plateau You certainly won't see a doubling of the current hashrate as it stands after the KnC delivery for a while yet, even during their November shipment. If they were to ship anywhere near what they shipped just now, it'll increase the current hashrate by a proportion, not a multiple due to the cumulative effect of this wave.

What about Hashfast? They are coming online with at least 550 orders. Their chip could probably be overclocked to 600 gh/s. So that means about 330 terahash added. then other companies too, there aren't a waiting period for new companies to come out with hardware, they are doing it right now
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
October 17, 2013, 02:08:26 AM
not everyone bothers to claim their merged mined Namecoins, so he gets to keep some of those at least...
It was my understanding that Luke also mines his own pool. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
October 17, 2013, 02:04:02 AM

Thanks for the video. Somehow I ended up watching the first episode of DS9 because of your two posts. Now, I'm hooked on DS9, a series I never got into prior.
I'm a trekkie. All series except "enterprise", and not a lot of love for voyager, but it was ok. DS9's first season was kind of 'eh'. From the second season to the finale it was really good.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
October 17, 2013, 01:56:33 AM
No of course, it's my prediction, based on my reasoning.

Your "reasoning" is clouded by being a knc-fanboi. The hashrate is not going to "level out" for quite some time.

Hashrate will level out when peoples want/need for money/greed levels out.

I have to disagree. That's a bottomless well. It'll hit technical barriers long before that.
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
October 17, 2013, 01:51:07 AM
#421x Saturn, saying "paid" after 16 fucking days of production.  HOSTED. Sent a love letter to knc last night. After 1hour received a reply with immediate change in status to "full refund pending". So yes, they are accepting refunds. Switching to Bitmine. 650GHs+1y hosting for $1000 more.

hopefully that applies to more then just the hosted folks

Searing
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
October 17, 2013, 01:49:16 AM
Oh, I freely admit that it was a fluke (the one I saw was not the ASIC miner thing, I do remember that.)

If the block you saw is not related to the ASICMiner refund, then show me where you saw a block which generated 200 BTC in transactions fees. I want see with my own eyes if such block even exist...
It wasn't 200 BTC in fees but 2.7 BTC if Biomech is talking about the one i'm thinking of: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/11731/anomalous-2-7-btc-transaction-fee-observed. It was talked about in this thread recently or at least on bitcointalk i think but i'm not going to search for it.


You may be correct. I haven't had a lot of sleep of late. I saw it about a week ago, either here or reddit.

At any rate, and this is to Augusto Croppo specifically and also a general thought.

I do NOT know a great deal of the technical aspects of bitcoin. I'm still learning, and I am not a mathematician so a lot of it is currently beyond me. That being said, I am well versed in economics, particularly Austrian school, but I have read and understood Keynes to the extent that anyone can understand that gobbledygook. I understand markets and money.

What I am proposing is simple on it's face, but somewhat complex in it's actions. This, I think, is one future avenue to gain widespread acceptance of bitcoin. Yes, it has unique properties that make it IN ITSELF a vehicle for monetary transactions, and yes, I understand that this does not in itself generate fees.

Therefore it is incumbent on the bitcoin community, and especially miners, to implement schemes that DO generate these fees. And yes, this scheme would require a form of banking. This is not egregious. Banking in and of itself is not harmful to economies. Fractional reserve banking is, because it "creates" units of currency that do not currently actually exist. In it's base form, it borrows against what a lender can repay ahead of time. That is dangerous, but not egregious. In it's more modern form, the "central bank" sees those loans as actual money and adjusts the supply accordingly. That's straight up theft in the form of debasing the currency. This we do want to avoid.

But a bank or similar institution issuing debit cards that transact with the network is not a problem, except for technical issues that are frankly minor. I'll say for the sake of speculation that Visa decides to issue the Visa-B bitcoin debit card, and they charge the seller around 1 percent of their transactions. This is normal, actually a bit low. Visa averages around 1.6 percent. Or did about 5 years ago. This does NOT cause a decline in transactions, as accepting Visa gives merchants a huge advantage over those who don't. So now, in this example, you have a bitcoin denominated visa card. Visa already does "currency equivalent" transactions, so this would be trivial to them. Now, let's say that they put 10 percent of their income to transaction fees to facilitate the network. See how this could work?

Further, on a slightly different angle, large merchants like Target or Walmart could issue bitcoin denominated gift cards, with a portion of every sale set as a transaction fee (sale of the g/c). This too would add to the network, and would be advantageous to the merchant as it would be yet another avenue of revenue for them. It costs them nothing, only slightly reduces THEIR income on the purchase fee.

These are just two possible schemes to add to the TX fees in the network. If the miners are participants in such a schema, then it benefits them far beyond just generating BTC via mining, and it helps the merchants to contribute to those who maintain the security of the network. Using personal advantage as a springboard, such cooperative ventures benefit everyone involved, including the consumer who now has another avenue of transaction.

This is somewhat complex, but not overly complicated. This is doable with existing structures and networks. There is NO reason that it shouldn't be done that I can see.

Mainstream adoption WILL increase the value of bitcoin over time due to it's deflationary nature AND the inflationary nature inherent in standard fiat currencies. As more people use the currency, the demand for it will drive it's value upward. This has nothing to do with the network itself, but everything to do with it's artificial scarcity. This is fairly basic economics. The more scarce a thing is that is in demand, the higher the purchasing power of it's owners.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
October 17, 2013, 01:45:16 AM
#421x Saturn, saying "paid" after 16 fucking days of production.  HOSTED. Sent a love letter to knc last night. After 1hour received a reply with immediate change in status to "full refund pending". So yes, they are accepting refunds. Switching to Bitmine. 650GHs+1y hosting for $1000 more.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
October 17, 2013, 01:21:32 AM
not everyone bothers to claim their merged mined Namecoins, so he gets to keep some of those at least...
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 251
The realist
October 17, 2013, 12:54:47 AM
How can people be so blind?

Right on the front page!



Yeah I saw that also. I've been trying to look around for what fees or any hidden fees they get. Seems like 0% so far from looking.

I'm just thinking here how they manage to operate without making money. Is there something I'm missing?

Surviving on donations? Tongue
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
October 17, 2013, 12:50:11 AM
What order number is the highest on shipping-status now?

according to this it is 65xx (at the end of this list on bitcointalk anyway)

so maybe that is it....all orders are now saying processing...if processing means you can't get a refund anymore then that means there was only a 1 day window to do this..more or less...weird....as in a prev post we will see what luck I have on refund of my 2nd unit a Saturn..that the customer service rep says they will try and pull and get me a refund ..but again it just changed from paid to processing around the time the customer service rep looked at it.

So if you are out of luck and they won't refund under processing anymore on the first run of knc stuff anymore...then only option is cc under paypal or direct cc contact

here is the list on bitcoin talk of people submitting orders/timeline

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/kncminer-list-of-orders-october-delivery-249065


anyway if you are on the a** end of nowhere on the list and just went to processing it won't hurt to ask I guess..if they really are gonna get everything out in like 3 days on this run..it may be futile...but again should you decide to do so..what the heck worth a shot...and they did say for those who had paid as a status yet and after the 15th and not shipped yet a refund...worse that can happen is they tell you your miner is built and its a no-go...can't see it being a big deal even if built if it all goes into the November 2nd run anyway imho

and again any implied or other 'advice' I have here just imho .....your best bet is probably to do the opposite my track record sucks...Smiley

still stumbling along

Searing
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
October 17, 2013, 12:34:20 AM
Out of curiosity, what companies besides KnC offer refunds?

we are not exactly sure that knc offers refunds (imho) I was told on here that because our orders THAT came AFTER the deadline of Oct 15th you suddenly COULD get a refund. This may always have been the case for the November orders .but for the 1st knc run they locked out refunds beginning of OCT I think it was.

So reading that and on a chance and yesterday morning my 520x Saturn still said PAID I requested a refund ( by the time I get this order it will be nov 1st and nov 15th will begin shipping on the next run from knc miner at the reduced cost...so this seemed  a better plan and small window of opportunity...)

Like 1/2 hr later I got an email from [email protected] saying that it was in "processing" and they they would get back to me today on if they can pull the unit and give me a refund..so if you have an item with PAID still on it .you have to jump...not sure if they will pull items in processing may  have only done that cause it just changed status for my Saturn unit and the customer rep saw it.

anyway the only window I know for people in the 1st run to get refunds w/o resorting to paypal and cc disputes.......If they just send me the Saturn anyway say I can't get a refund I'll just eat it...probably and mine...but for $4K to use or save for another day ...under current 'dump' of asic devices what the heck worth a shot ...would not mind the 2nd toy but hey..if your gonna dangle a refund in front of me with the next month looming and I already have a Jupiter on the way....i'll bite...(of course all my choices are wrong....so we will see..in the btc world anyway)

and side note as it relates to difficulty etc to knc miners hitting the network...BFL since KNC had its 'demo' at the first of the month has stopped or slowed production on its other products and really been dumping out mini-rigs or at least at a pace now similar to their other units....not sure if this was a poison the well for everyone tactic or what but prev to this they we're trying to get the low end units more worthless sooner out first....anyway that also contributed to my decision they are in MARCH on their mini-rig orders ...if they really get moving on getting the rest of their stuff out...that will be a big hit diff wise with knc from now thru December....they have not even got to the NEW pricing units yet from april when BTC hit the news and their sales shot up....so lame they are..

anyway it is what it is i'll let you know how it goes.....just trying to helpful those with even later units then mine

Searing

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Mining for the hell of it.
October 17, 2013, 12:27:56 AM
well i got 6xxx and it says in process. but that dont mean squat.
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