Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 342. (Read 3050075 times)

Sure. That is part of the market dynamics. But it shouldn't preclude an honest discussion of the issue. The fact remains, both miner manufacturing and mining have to be economically sustainable for the network to survive.


Agreed.


That isn't a good argument for ignoring the silliness of spending 8 BTC now for 5 later. Sure, maybe there is a .00009999 percent chance that the network difficulty will be a lot lower in 6 months that it is now, but simple probabilistic analysis allows us to define the error bounds for our ROI analyses.


I hope it isn't just the Neptune … because the S3 and other machines are waiting in the wings too. If this coming ~ 30% increase is just the Neptune, the next one or two are going to be just as bad.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but mining hardware manufacturers also need to make a profit and they won't sell below manufacturing cost unless they are forced to do so by market conditions.

Personally, I think pre-ordering hardware months in advance is silly and will not do so, but others are free to play that game if they wish. From a purely selfish perspective, others pre-ordering hardware months in advance is actually good for me in this zero sum mining game because it almost never works out well for the buyer.

Mining ROI is impossible to predict beforehand, and gets even harder the longer out you look because there are too many variables that can change dramatically and influence the outcome (difficulty, BTC price, delivery date, ...).

I'm actually very surprised at how many folks kept their Neptune pre-order considering they had the option of getting a refund as recently as a month ago, and the Neptune will obviously never mine back as many coins as they would have been refunded. Miners are a crazy bunch, and don't always act in their own economic best interest.

The difficulty is going up a lot right now due to the Neptune, but had KNC delivered a few months ago, the total network difficulty would be much higher right now. Thanks for being late, KNC!

You can mine and do all the things you suggest AND recover your costs or you can mine and not recover your costs.

Which would *YOU* rather do Collider ?

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

This is why honest ROI discussions are so important. The future of bitcoin depends on mining being economically sustainable.

Those vendors who avoid ROI discussions, take advantage of people's ignorance or otherwise exploit their customers are doing bitcoin a grave disservice. Its easy to talk the talk, how many of them are walking the walk ?

This debate is a joke.

Basically, mining is a hedged investment on Bitcoin, and your profit is lower but your risk is also lower than purely investing in Bitcoin.

Furthermore, you help stabilize and secure the network aswell as verify transactions.

Buy and hold is nice, and many miners also do this, but the positive impact on the Bitcoin system is very limited.

So RoadStress's entire argument is premised on the assertion that 5 bitcoins in the future is worth more than 8 bitcoins now because if you have 8 bitcoins now you might spend them but if you don't, you wont.

You're very funny RoadStress.  Good Joke

I have a proposal for you. Send me 8 bitcoins now and I will give you 5 bitcoins on Jan 1. 2015. Escrow is no problem.

~L)L~

Neptune unpacking/setup video (someone else's, not mine):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxd3YI2SY2M

I am not familiar with multiple PSU's. How to set up single rail or multi rails? what is the best option to make neptune work? suppose I have three 850W PSU.

Somebody asked about Corsair cables on KnC forum but they banned me for talking about their competitors again so can't respond.

I can confirm that Corsair modular (AX1200i at least) comes with both 18 and 16 AWG modular PCI-e cables. The 18 AWG cables have one PCI-e and the 16 AWG cables (which you get two of with each AX1200i) go to one PCI-e and then have 18 AWG going to another PCI-e.

So long story short the single PCI-e cables would look neater but make sure you use the first PCI-e plug on the modular cables which have two. If you wish to run more than two cubes from one AX1200i then you will either have to buy/make cables or risk the 18 AWG.

u27

Swedish Government has a agency (KO) to help consumers to solve a dispute with a company (http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/This-is-how-you-apply-for-KO-support-/)

"KO will only support a consumer under certain circumstances. The dispute shall either be significant for the application of the law, i.e. to clarify the legal situation within a certain area, or the dispute shall be of common consumer interest, i.e. concern a great number of consumers. When KO supports a consumer in a dispute, the state covers the consumer’s legal expenses."

For those who are cheated by KnC's "choose one lose the other" plan or who receive defected Neptune, we may file a complaint together. But I am not Swedish, and I do not now how to do this. Anyone can provide advice/suggestions on this?

Also any details about the fan of Neptune to buy some replaced it?

Neptune - from 20 hours

SuperJup or Neptune?

I use 1 EVGA 1300 G2 + 1 Seasonic 850 Gold, and no problem - hash between 2.95-3.45Th

I had odd tripping issues with the AX1200i on my Jupiters, a single rail PSU and I was pulling no more than 1000W but it would trip within a few minutes even once I pulled some cards off of it and tried to run at 500W.

In the end it looks like although they are single rail PSUs the current sensing capabilities (Corsiar Link, etc) internally wouldn't let the PCIe connectors be overdriven..

I started using EVGA PSUs after that, aside from the occasional melted connector it's been good

Yes, with a single rail of 108A it should be difficult to trip the OCP using two PSUs.

Nice It'll be good to see someone with skills break this machine down a bit, so we can see how it's actually running. Loved all your work/knowledge shared in the jupiter overclocking thread.

Looking at the manual for the Maxrevo 1500 the OCP is stated as 40-50A per 12V rail.  It is possible to trip the OCP with the available PCIe/EPS modular section alone as it uses only 4 of the 6 available 12V rails.

I would say that at most you could attach 4 boxes from the Neptune to this section of the PSU.  Anymore and it could trip on rails 3 or 5.  Sourcing more power would mean a custom adapter getting the power from rail 1 and or 2 on the MB section.

I use 2 x EVGA 1300 G2, runs like a charm. No problems at all, I never had any with KNC products.

Yeah, those Enermax Platimax 1500W 95% efficiency, platinum rated PSU's you are using - not good enough for KNC's hardware!    

Once again, KNC customers become beta testers.

LOL, I was'nt claiming issues don't exist, just that the link at the time I read it seemed to indicate PSU's.

Just some friendly pushback from someone who has been known to 'open mouth change feet'
It's all good

Either way I'll know in a few hours if they sealed the smoke in there real good.
My box is in the Chicago area already so scheduled delivery seems likely today.

YMMV