Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 668. (Read 3050075 times)

Right.

Interesting would be if you still can refund after you receive the hashrate from the data center and to which conditions.

Ummm. no?

You gave them money to receive a neptune in exchange. If you get a neptune, they are not scammers. What they do with the money isn't your business.

you could very well be correct...but i have an option to 'refund" any time in that timeline....they have an option to decide to shift their business model also to commercial ...i just say how they do it is acceptable to me considering how others treat miners...but yeah...they could very well be taking a walk to hosting only selling that way...as to my view they likely all are gonna do this all the asic mnfg....so the others toss you out of the plane and take the plane....KNC tosses you out of the plane and gives you a parachute and part of the bank heist....both suck just saying from what i ,know of how 'business' operates...i'm lucky to get potentially some $$$ and a parachute (likely i'm suffering from asic miner trauma from all the trampling on my miner asperations......swedish stockholm syndrome...yeah also possible)

anyway still fence sitting ...still can refund...and this other option

it is what it is

Searing

This is likely the smart move i still may refund my Neptune(s) but at least KNC allows me to refund not like the others..again that is what got them in this predicament imho..because they offer a refund ....and they miss the timeline and all the hash rate increases.....what to do?..everyone refunds their neputunes?

bring the minning farm up from fall at 20mm when they said they'd do more comercial at 20mm and do it now at 28mm and make the offer to cover customers if they are late

now i don't know a lot but all this talk about they "went to hosting equip and cloud hashing or whatever"  well even as a NOOB this summer i always figured that was the case for all these companies eventually..just thought it would start in the fall more or less in mass...

at least they did not make the gh farm like BFL ie took money ...no refunds...no shipping of product...nice bfl farm as a result

of course again i started this summer my expections on what to expect from a corp was mainly will you ship my product on time to make ROI..so they did that with the Jupiter (oct) and they look like they have a plan to MAYBE do that with the Neptune(s) ....refund up to shipping i always thought was quaint on their part....took what i could get with that

but again i appreciate the option to refund up to shipping still .....in that they are better then everyone else and maybe if i keep the neptune orders hashing till they ship if late also

but beyond that I figured they would do this hosting stuff this Fall anyway..they just moved it up...seems everything in bitcoin land moves faster time and gh wise now

anyway....yeah likely better off just buying BTC.....but at least have an option to refund and/or this furhter hedge they offer....on my Neptunes

but again if hashing via remote equip via shares or whatever ...purchasing of virtrual hash etc is the future.....if i decided to do so i'd probably do it with these guys....i have the feelling they will clean up on all this ..assuming they still keep to at least some min morals that we've seen so far..compared to the other groups and mnfg's of asics

but again I know zip..if BTC is long term buying BTC is probably wise...if not..well won't matter anyway mine or buy.......just likely to make more getting BTC from what it looks like lately

anyway can sit on the fence with the neputunes longer now (ponders naval...thinks deep thoughts...the ways of btc are mysterious to me

Searing

We decided the same thing today.

We also anticipated that the KNC Neptune miners would be late -- at best -- perhaps never delivered. (We have back and forth email on this where I laid out the risks.) This was based on other work I am doing with FPGAs and multi core units and the fact that even the Xylinx 20 nm stuff is only recently available -- maybe kinda... Like maybe I'll seem my board(s) in February - uhm hey -- It's February! ...and no shipping notice! I just noticed...

I'm sure I'll see my units soon -- eh? No, not KNC -- the other ones... rotflmao!

you are a Kind of naive.

they build now the data Center and dump thousands of Jupiter in there.

But their vage delivery date is q1/q2. So they have to "save" us just at July!

What do you think, who they "safe" till July?

The milions of Dollars that they will earn in short time are our millions!


bevor i was naiv, and belived in Knc, that they do all to deliver 1 Batch in q1. But now i lost my trust.

Now I think that they never had before to deliver quickly.

Think of how quickly they built the Jupiter.

Since they had started at 0.

Had they wanted to, they would get the Neptune finished until March. As I'm sure.



as i now said:

knc are scammers.
we gave them our Money to build neptunes, but they used it to build worlds bigges mining rig for them self.
this is clearly breaking a contract, so this is a scam for the law.

we should sue them.

at the end they should be the same poor asses till bevor!

my view is they are not gonna mine that cloud hosting they are gonna sell cloud hosting.....they could mine 10% and host and still kill ..if they host the risk is less with the $$$ coming in....

but hey if you did not figure all these asic mnfg were not at least (being able to make equip at cost) running cloud hosting farms to us all...well even I saw that coming

esentially imho they were likely already planning this for fall 2014 after the last Neptunes shipped..then they have said they'd likely go commercial ..so with the mad rush of GH hitting the network and likely delays they basically moved it up ....covered their butt from everyone getting a refund on neptunes (at least bought some time) and said crap it is gonna be 28mm farm to start rather then 20mm farm this fall..things are moving to fast

anyway it is mixed news indeed....but the fact that they give "refunds up to shipping" and all this gh hash hitting the network...and the likelyhood imho they will be late on Neptunes...I myself see no other option then ..ie we can simply eat the delay and get a full refund

if they get Neptunes out on time this simply will stop the refund rush....if they don't you can refund or hash ..options

if this hosting offer was given by hashfast right now ...they'd be nominated as 'saints' as we speak

anyway no good deed goes unpunished with knc's refund option....they had to put up or lose $$$ this was their blan B as they state plan....have to double cover

the truth is though.....this also really makes their competitors look even worse at least from a PR aspect

well played knc well played indeed

Searing

well me and 2 brothes are into 2 neptunes batch 1 and batch 2 ..while i agree that i'd rather have the Neptunes on time...from my point of view it was getting pretty obvious that at BEST we'd be looking at April and more likely May for even the batch 1 stuff imho...again at the BEST

also looking around at cointerra finally getting its act together.....black arrow MAY they say now.....butterflylabs said dec but they are always 3-4 months late figure march/april .hashfast. who knows march?..trickle out up to speed say april....plus the other private hashing farms being made and of course knc dumping neputunes...well imho it was looking like there was a possibilty of 'everyone" dumping hash at their peak level like in the first week or two of april...that is the kinda luck we would have...tossing an anvil in a rowboat


people have to remember as an investment (if you can get equip) you put elec in one end of the machine and $$$ come out the ass end....everyone and his brother are jumping into the rowboat and a lot private imho we don't know about...

so....with the above looking more and more likely ....all the hash droping in the same month or something equally silly and of course then another lag this summer on equip for yet the next generationg of miners (probably commercial) my Neptune orders were looking like 'toast' ie ..they have a full refund policy....till "shipping" (imho hosting is not shipping so you are still covered if you want to get out)..i was like 70/30 on askinig for a refund

anyway....KNC looks at this and says we have lots of capacity for 28mm production....we are IFFY at best on 20mm neptune production..in the timeline we want....if the above massive hash dumps on the network is likely....and we are not up to speed on mnfg of Neptunes...we not only lose all that $$$ in our refund policy..we have no way to do the cloud hosting plan we want to do for our own mining...and have comercial viablity for doing both equip and mining in the future...ie stuck.

so they covered their a*ss with this plan....ie....I may still ask for a refund depending on circumstances...BUT at least on my 1st run Neptune batch 1 miner...I could probably let it slide for a bit and get hash from their cloud hosting service till it shiped...the 2nd batch one not so sure..but hey it is a better option then just waiting or just refund

...that of course is if the above situation of a lot of hash hitting the network before they could ship neptunes (even in Q1 imho would be tough)
anyway I likely would have 'dumped' my Neptunes for a refund

anyway KNC did this because the 'refunds' put them in this bind...with a no refund plan like the other asic mnfg companies...we'd just have to eat it

anyway to cut my rambling short they have managed to do a few things here

1) give people who bought neptunes an option ...and at least for a bit time to decide on thes options depending when they ship ....attractive option not to "refund on the Neptunes"
ie they bought themselves some time to put up or shut up and stopped a refund rush probably starting in march more or less imho

2) the refund option seems to be still intact ie i can still punt if they don't ship (ie i have the 'choice' to host or not)

3) they have stuck it to... everyone else who asic mnfg units by still having "refunds' and now a hosting plan if they don't ship in time using 28mm units they still can make
 the others have no refunds and no backup on late delivery ...risk is all the customers..i see a next batch of neptunes doing really well esp if they are around 8k or so with the refund option still intact and the hosting as backup as a further hedge...if you plan to mine and are new and/or still want to get equip it is the only way to go imho

4) it they stick to their no more then ..what was it 10% of the network by KNC mining..they can still probably do that for KNC proper but that does not mean they can't make money hosting for others on top of that! and if they are as forthright and more honest anyway then then the other asic mnfg companies....and offer a more attractive hosting plan then others ....i've often said if someone came along with a sensible hosting plan ie not gouge everyone....that they'd clean up..if they have the same sensible imho (at least compared to others) hosting plan ..esp with cheap elec (probably the earth energy type thermal common their and of course if in ice pack area cooling is not an issue)....they will clean up in that field as well

5) so yeah they are a business trying to cover their butt but unlike bfl and others....at least they make a real attempt not to throw us overboard...ie customer  has all the risk.with those other asic mnfg groups..they may screw up technically imho but at least they (or I like to think as I myself would do running KNC) TRY to compensate us in some manner as time goes along

to me after looking at the other asic mnfg messups bfl hashfast late late late  and no refunds screw you policy....anyway a good honest attempt means a lot even it the do screw up at least I know it was not 'entirely" in their self interest

all i know is there are gonna be many many meetings at BFL and Hashfast and Cointerra etc on how KNC is messing everything up by making at least the ATTEMPT to be on time with orders..and if not there are consequences...and not to mention they offer "refunds up to shipping" my gawd it must be driving josh at bfl and the others to FITS right now lmao



anyway how i see it....INTENT is a big deal you can still muck it up ..tech don't work etc...but at least have the INTENT to want to treat your customers well and try to take some responsiblity when those snafu's happen..and if 1yr from now when everyone is hosting/pooling equip due to difficulty.....if you have a niche there too....well to tell the truth i'd probably tag along an't got burnt from them yet

anyway for those of us who have Neptunes still on order.....we can still refund..unlike all the other asic mnfg's and in addition to that we have these further options to keep our equipment.....as well and not punt....anyway.....they seem to keep closer to their word then all the other asic mnfg's so we will see

my 2c worth (again I know zip just my viewpoint)

Searing

knc are scammers.
we gave them our Money to build neptunes, but they used it to build worlds bigges mining rig for them self.
so this is a scam for the law.

we should sue them.

In my point of view todays news of Knc looks like a big cover up for their project "Plan B" which seems to be allready operational! In other words from the day they started mining the Neptunes preorder customers have the right to get a fair share of their current mining revenue!!!! Or at least from the extra percentage of the 5% constraint they promised!  

They have (abusevely) mislead customers by prioritising their way of business. In the end this scenario is not going to work out in the benefit of their customers. With current hugh mining operations Knc had to come out with the news anyway. By telling us sweet stories, Knc hopes to gain trust and to let us believe "Plan B" is a Win-Win situation for both parties.

Knc has a lot to explain and needs to come up with the Whole truth!!! Starting by telling the world of their real intention of the Neptunes preorders!!!!

Once again the goldrush repeats itselves!

Wow, you couldn't be more out of touch with the general consensus.  Read back a few pages.  You'll be surprised.

i'm at the univ library area of the science bldg..actually let out a rebel yell...was very embarasing...

but i mean i keep re-reading it...is my a*ss really covered? is it some evil plot to take over all of bitcoin (i mean would you buy from anyone else now)

need more details (Gru..you and your silly minions may be able to take the moon..but bitcoin)

jeez .this is out of a Disney movie...never saw this coming

Searing

I find it extremely satisfying that all the stuff I said in October last year still stands. They still don't care about their customers, they still fuck them over with their bullshit ToS and they will certainly not give anyone with a Neptune order acces to their "Datacenter" until right before the end of Q2. Maybe Neptunes will have 5TH then, but who cares about that when their Datacenter killed every possibility of ROI even with that...

And to top that off, every existing customer gets bitchslapped in the coming months with more and more hashingpower produced and used by them alone without any chance of buying any more from them.

+1

You clearly haven't kept up with whats been promised vs what actually happened. Thanks for your input though.

So we all did a prepaid to pay the KNC crewfor their stuff and worktime, so that they can make miners.
Now I get this message from KNC that they are building a massive datacenter and fill it with miners?

So it seems they have time en money en chips enough to build a datacenter, build miners, and bring them online.

And when they are finished, and they have time, then finally our miners can be build.

It's this mentality that causes so many people to buy over priced ASIC miners that will never have a positive BTC ROI. If you think the exchange rate will be 5000 USD then you can also buy BTC directly, no mining required. The only reason you should buy a Neptune is if you think it will mine more BTC than you could buy right now for the same price. The exchange rate is not a factor.

for now we all are crying, but when the btc climbes to 5000 USD we are rolling on the floor



Neptune for sale! Only 5 BTC

Great for them but not for the Jupiter/Neptune owners that will earn less BTC because of increased difficulty. They've made no indication they will sell cloud hashing but only offer it for compensation if they fail to deliver.

Yes and what iron clad date is that exactly? June 31st. By super I assume you mean negative BTC ROI?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but if they wanted to take care of their customers, they could have sold them more Jupiters / upgrade modules instead of building their own farm to compete against us.