--its a BIG fucking SO WHAT no coiner talking point that is likely to work itself out sufficiently well
I will have to assume you have more experience of hodling and seeing the actions of early adopters to be sure of this.
I doubt that I am sure of anything. I was largely rebutting your point about central banks "never" including bitcoin on their balance sheets. So, in that regard, I don't need to be sure about much of anything, except that your earlier statement seemed to be way too absolutist in terms of what you thought was going to happen, especially also including the various other things going on in the bitcoin space, including the already considerable amount of BTC adoption that seems to be taking place by bigger and BIGGER players.. individuals, companies and even financial institutions (sometimes not sure if there is a difference between companies and financial institutions anymore but whatever).
Its cool if this happens.
I fucking don't care whether it happens of not, except you said that it was never going to happen.. and I think that the odds are quite a bit greater than "never".
Already folks like Jack announce development grants etc for bitcoin based development.
Sure.. those kinds of ongoing investments causes bitcoin to be more and more widely known and of course there are likely to be actually perceived material developments that take place when funds and efforts continue to be directed at bitcoin in various ways.. and Jack Dorsey is just one of many...
BTC remains quite fair in its distribution
I would love to have some backing on this and your understanding on what you call fair distribution.
I don't feel like backing anymore than I already have. I made some overall descriptions of what I believe to be the case, and if you do not believe it and you have other ideas of some better ways of distributing more fairly blah blah blah, then whatever, you are free to come to your own conclusions.. still sounds like what shitcoiners or no coiners try to do in criticizing bitcoin and striving come up with other more fair distribution mechanisms or put some burdens on bitcoiners to justify why bitcoin is sufficiently fairly distributed.. whatever.. there is a decent amount of data out there for you to research into the distribution matters if you believe it is such a BIG deal. Of course, we are not going to know distribution with any kind of accuracy beyond inferences because bitcoin remains pseudo-anonymous.. so the information is not going to be completely complete.. and it is not even going to be good enough for some people, so there remains logic and inferences in the conclusions that anyone might come to in regards to these kinds of analysis and/or comparative analysis.
and ability of folks to get it, and sure there are informational disparities but [not] difficult to really figure out ways to more fairly distribute,
I suppose you did mean that.
I am not sure about your point? We have had years in which people could buy into bitcoin at relatively low prices, but of course, only small percentages of the world's population had known about BTC, and even if people know about bitcoin there is a lot of misinformation out there. So the various dynamics have been out there, and surely people who have access to information and are able to sort information and misinformation are going to be in better positions to acquire bitcoin. Also people with disposable income are going to be in better positions to acquire bitcoin (or make any investments for that matter).
Do you have some proposal about more fair distribution, which seems to be part of what you are trying to criticize bitcoin for and to suggest that I have some kind of burden to show that bitcoin is sufficiently fairly distributed because I had made such statements?
unless you are an altcoin pumpener trying to think "creatively" about some pie in the sky bullshit that is not going to happen.
My "pie" in the sky is to be around and be able to understand when people figure out what is possible with bitcoin before the corporates do.
Your description of your own thinking does seem to be like "pie in the sky;" I agree, because once the cat is out of the bag (which seems to be the case in recent times), smaller and regular folks are going to have more difficulties acquiring BTC at reasonably low prices, unless they figure out what the fuck is happening much more quickly.
So, yes, based on some of the recent happenings, it does appear that corporates and other BIG institutional players are going to end up pumping BTC's price way up.. and sure, right now, as I type, it is probably still quite early in terms of regular peeps acquiring BTC, but regular peeps might not appreciate the fact that it is still sufficiently early, until BTC prices are in the supra $150k price arena.. and whatever, at that point, they missed opportunities to buy at much lower prices, but there is no reason to doubt that bitcoin is going to continue to be a good investment for a long ass time into the future, even if some peeps have to buy in at $150k or $500k rather than having had bought earlier at much lower prices, including today's prices.
And yes Ser, I don't yet think all Alt-coins are shit-coins.
Sorry for your loss.
(seriously)Also, you should maybe read some of my other posts before calling me a defeatist..
Why? I am responding to the ideas in your post, and there is no need to take my comments personally. Whether you are an actual defeatist in terms of your other ideas and ways of the world, why would it matter to my various responses? I am responding to ideas that were made (to the extent that I understood them properly) in a public thread and not about you in any kind of personal way.
LOL OK. You are popular JJG. Some of us lesser mortals sometimes assume that people know us too. Totally off-track.
No problem. Fair enough. Sometimes, any of us might use really strong language or even call the other a retard, and most of time, my personal intent continues to be to attack the ideas of the person rather than the person, even though sometimes my chosen language might be a bit ambiguous in terms of interpretation.
Fair enough. I would consider myself on appreciating the upside possibilities of bitcoin, but I am not banking of those having to have to happen. I am already way the hell ahead of any place that I had expected to be in life, and I have bitcoin management systems that attempt to prepare me psychologically and financially for very conservative moves in bitcoin, so a lot of the excess BTC price moves over the years has been largely icing on the cake.
So, for example, when I got into bitcoin in late 2013, I had considered that I might lose all of what I had invested into bitcoin over those first few years, but my initial thoughts was that I had hoped to be able to get at least a 6% per annum price return in my bitcoin investment, and sure, it took a few years just to get to that 6% per annum average because BTC price went from $1,163 when I started down to $200-ish in late 2014 and pretty much stayed in the mid-$200s for most of 2015 before even moving up to be able to surpass $500 in late May 2016.. so surely there were uncertain times in regards to being able to sustain 6% per year, but I had continued to mostly buy during that time with money available (considering that I had already invested quite a bit in 2014), and then things started looking much better getting into late 2016 and thereafter, and of course, my strategy had remained quite conservative through all of that time - and of course, I have 100s of post in which I talk about my various strategies that largely focus on accumulate and hodl even though sure I do shave off small amounts of profits when the BTC price goes up and use that money to buy back btc.. (consider it as a kind of insurance/hedge)...
In essence, part of my point here is that BTC's ongoing upwards price moves that seem quite likely to continue are way more bullish than any of what I had hoped for and I don't even give much shits on a personal level because my BTC management system does not try to play around with the market... and I am doing quite well, even if BTC prices make a 80% drop from here (which seems quite unlikely but surely within the realm of possibilities). Looking at the 208-week moving average (as a pretty decent - extreme bottom indicator), it is currently at about $8,900 and it appears to be moving up around $150 per week these days.
Thanks for sharing that experience.
Sure, sometimes it can be helpful to throw in some personal experiences in order to attempt to clarify perspectives, and surely, I understand that there are a variety of approaches to BTC, and I tend to share my personal experiences quite frequently in terms of both advocating a kind of long term BTC investment mindset, but also attempting to show a kind of way that such a longer term investment approach can be put into practice in connection with BTC.
These bullish indicators may seem all too obvious to people like me who only came onboard around 2017. Your post makes me realize that for those of you who stuck through the earlier phase when it was so much easier to diss on Bitcoin and call it a scam, there has to be a solid understanding that a lot of us still miss.
Through the years, there has always been both negative and positive information in bitcoin, and there are so many of us longer-term investors (and maybe can even include yourself into this) that continue to be dumbfounded and amazed how the news related to BTC ends up playing out even more bullish than we had expected. Sure, there is a range of expectations in terms of what could happen with bitcoin that go from completely negative to neutral to positive, but in the whole scheme of things, and on the spectrum, seems that the overall BTC fundamentals have continued to play out quite well - despite some set backs along the way, gaining of traction of some misinformation (and FUD) and even seeming difficult times along the way (such as overcoming of challenges such as the hardforks of the mid-to-late 2017s).
The passage of time has been providing more and more BTC adoption that kind of snowballs into reinforcing earlier theories that then materialize in price performance... which might be another way of saying that BTC has Lindy effects that are proven with the passage of time.
Personally, I buy BTC when I have money to put into it.
Each of us can only do what we can do in terms of cashflow or other financial resources that might be available to us including whether we could employ debt reasonably and prudently, and considering what kinds of strategies might be available for us to reasonably and prudently employ.
I understand that there are all kinds of people out there who might not have much if any cashflow or other resources that can be turned into ways to acquire bitcoin, so they might feel that they are getting left behind by others buying up bitcoin and pushing up the prices... but still you gotta do what you can, and I have largely been recommending a three pronged approach with includes 1) buying right way, 2) dollar cost averaging and 3) buying on dips. Of course, the whole idea of money management is way more complicated than just spewing out a few conceptual frameworks, so any particular individual needs to consider his/her individual factors such as cashflow, other investments, view of bitcoin as compared to other investments, timeline, risk tolerance and time, skills and abilities to research, plan and employ various strategies that would likely include allocating, reallocating and possibly even trading.
By the way, I also do not recommend trading as a way to attempt to accumulate more bitcoin, I recommend those first three that I mentioned.. which is largely ongoing buying until reaching a kind of target level of BTC accumulation, which could take 10 to 20 years. Hey, there are people who invest all of their lives and even 40 years or more and they might not end up getting rich or getting to a status in which they can live fairly comfortably off of their investments, so if bitcoin can cut that time in half and provide some actual assurances of being able to live off of it, then you end up being way the hell ahead of so many people in the world who have to work until their death or who end up having a lot of financial struggles and stresses in their older years.
So even though its not going to be a ride to the moon, I am lucky enough to be earlier than most.
Get rich quick seems to be a stupid-ass perspective, even if bitcoin might end up causing some people to get rich way the fuck quicker than they would have if they had not come across bitcoin. I think that you are really early to already have systems for acquiring bitcoin set up and having had been able to be in the space for three years or more. So, even if you might continue to have some dumb-ass ideas about shitcoins having value in terms of your long term investment approach, you still should be able to work out some various systems that allow you to prosper quite stupendously from the mere fact of knowing about bitcoin and being able to have it in your investment portfolio.
By the way, don't get me wrong about shitcoins. I do hold a few, but they are much less than 1% of my total investment portfolio, and I can accept that some reasonable people might want to put up to 10% of the value of their bitcoin investment into various shitcoins.... but I really do not believe that more should be put into shitcoins, even though I know many people "know better than me" and they are going to take much higher chances with a variety of shitcoins. I recall in 2017, there were people with 80% in shitcoins and 20% in bitcoin and talking the various shitcoin talking points including calling bitcoin grandpa coin blah blah blah... Of course, there were also a decent number of those "know it alls" who did not have any in bitcoin, even though they knew about bitcoin.
Currently, there do not seem to be as many of those overly allocated shitcoiners who fail/refuse to invest any in bitcoin, but still from my perspective there are likely a lot who are way too allocated into shitcoins both financially and mentally.. but whatever, do what you like.
I still think that its not invincible.
Of course, any investor needs to consider both upside and downside possibilities, and even if "going to zero" seems to have become lower and lower on the spectrum of likely outcomes, it still is a non-zero possibility, at least in my way of thinking about the whole matter.
There is a lot to be done for Bitcoin to establish itself. By that I don't mean that some other coin will replace it. Just that Bitcoin itself has a lot to figure out.
That seems to be another one of those sets of extreme assertions, amishmanish. Bitcoin is already established, especially if you compare it to some kind of piece of shit like ethereum that is still trying to figure out what it is going to be including a bunch of bullshit propaganda trying to proclaim that it actually functions in any kind of meaningful way except providing various vehicles for scams... sure there are networking effects in scams and providing "get rich quick" mechanisms for people, but still, compared to bitcoin, bitcoin is already established rather than theoretical.
Bitcoin could end up ossifying right where it is at, and it would still provide a whole hell of a lot of utility just for what it already is. Of course, there seem to be some likely changes in the code in the future such as taproot and Schnorr and perhaps some other changes, and they would increase functionality of something that already works. And, sure there are other systems being built upon bitcoin and getting pegged to bitcoin, but that is going to happen with any system. With the passage of time, more things are going to be built upon it, which is what seems to be ongoingly happening with bitcoin..... and way more things being built than I can keep track of ... but I can still witness some of the building that is taking place by looking around and hearing from other people who are involved in such building or know about such building that is ongoingly taking place in respect to bitcoin.. and sure even some of the shitcoin building could end up getting absorbed into bitcoin or pegged to bitcoin in the future, perhaps.
Feel like I wrote a bit much.
Thanks for reading if you made it to the end.
