Tangem Ring HW - The Lord of the Rings?

DaveF

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Quote from: Hispo on August 21, 2024, 11:36:09 AM

Quote from: DaveF on August 21, 2024, 08:12:17 AM

...
Not to mention since it's not in a thin piece of plastic in your wallet it's probably going to be tougher to activate at a distance vs your Visa Card.

-Dave

Actually I was wondering about the possible risks of someone using a device to try to access the funds within the ring itself at a distance. I believe it is already something which happens to holders of NFC credit cards, alledgedly, because I have seen some wallets which advertise themselves as a protection against thieves who seek to exploit such attempts of stealing money.
It would be still a unlikely scenario, but not impossible if we are just talking about a NFC chip embedded in a ring, it would be "safer" if there was some actual "smart" technology within the ring or used an interface linked to our smartphones to sign transactions: it could be a combination of NFC and the typical biometric security which is already offered by most of Iphone and Android devices, using a fragmented private key (like Shamir) between the phone and the ring, so the funds would be safe regardless of the loss of any of them.

Just some random ideas about this product, in the end, those developers could come up with something even more intelligent than relying security on biometric data on the phone.

The NFC in the ring is linked to the wallet in your phone. You need to open the app, authenticate (pin / biometrics), create the transaction, then tap the ring to your phone to verify that it's really you and you want to do this transaction.

You can't recreate¹ the wallet with just 1 ring / card and you cant send from the wallet without the ring / card.

¹ With the original way there was no seed phrase that you could see / recover your wallet with. Their new app allows that.

-Dave

Hispo

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Quote from: DaveF on August 21, 2024, 08:12:17 AM

...
Not to mention since it's not in a thin piece of plastic in your wallet it's probably going to be tougher to activate at a distance vs your Visa Card.

-Dave

Actually I was wondering about the possible risks of someone using a device to try to access the funds within the ring itself at a distance. I believe it is already something which happens to holders of NFC credit cards, alledgedly, because I have seen some wallets which advertise themselves as a protection against thieves who seek to exploit such attempts of stealing money.
It would be still a unlikely scenario, but not impossible if we are just talking about a NFC chip embedded in a ring, it would be "safer" if there was some actual "smart" technology within the ring or used an interface linked to our smartphones to sign transactions: it could be a combination of NFC and the typical biometric security which is already offered by most of Iphone and Android devices, using a fragmented private key (like Shamir) between the phone and the ring, so the funds would be safe regardless of the loss of any of them.

Just some random ideas about this product, in the end, those developers could come up with something even more intelligent than relying security on biometric data on the phone.

DaveF

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Quote from: PrivacyG on August 18, 2024, 02:16:14 PM

Quote from: m2017 on August 13, 2024, 09:54:13 AM

"Confiscation" doesn't necessarily have to be legal. Hispo says this here:

Quote from: Hispo on August 11, 2024, 01:56:11 PM

... all of it is just in order for the person to get scared and give their Satoshis to the officers.

I have a few concerns. One of them being,

The United States are particularly known for very strict Airport regulations and Security. If big companies like Samsung start rolling out 'Smart Rings' and maybe some of them look similar to the Tangem Ring, what happens if I am an innocent citizen going through the Airport Security procedures and on the day of my arrival the Airport Staff is on alert for a possible Terrorist trying to enter the United States? I presume this means verifying Smart phones, which they already do according to my knowledge, together with laptops, Hard Drives et cetera. With Smart Rings becoming trendy and obviously a technology, would this not put my Tangem Ring at risk?

Also. Can longer distance NFC detectors be integrated in the Airport filters? As in once I pass through a gate, which is pretty close to the body anyway, they know I have a smart device on my body. This could also be a problem if the detection technology allows for it.

It's not a 'smart' ring. It's an NFC chip embedded in a ring. No different then the NFC chip in your credit card or similar.
Not to mention since it's not in a thin piece of plastic in your wallet it's probably going to be tougher to activate at a distance vs your Visa Card.

-Dave

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Quote from: m2017 on August 13, 2024, 09:54:13 AM

"Confiscation" doesn't necessarily have to be legal. Hispo says this here:

Quote from: Hispo on August 11, 2024, 01:56:11 PM

... all of it is just in order for the person to get scared and give their Satoshis to the officers.

I have a few concerns. One of them being,

The United States are particularly known for very strict Airport regulations and Security. If big companies like Samsung start rolling out 'Smart Rings' and maybe some of them look similar to the Tangem Ring, what happens if I am an innocent citizen going through the Airport Security procedures and on the day of my arrival the Airport Staff is on alert for a possible Terrorist trying to enter the United States? I presume this means verifying Smart phones, which they already do according to my knowledge, together with laptops, Hard Drives et cetera. With Smart Rings becoming trendy and obviously a technology, would this not put my Tangem Ring at risk?

Also. Can longer distance NFC detectors be integrated in the Airport filters? As in once I pass through a gate, which is pretty close to the body anyway, they know I have a smart device on my body. This could also be a problem if the detection technology allows for it.

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Quote from: DaveF on August 11, 2024, 03:18:49 PM

I would not go so far as calling it an experiment. Not to put too fine a point on it but (at least here in the US) people have been micro-chipping their pets for years. So it's not like it's new. While traveling it's probably going to be fun to explain what that thing is in your hand to airport security if you do have one implanted.

Putting microchips (and other experimental liquids) in human bodies IS experimenting, and I don't care if it's coming from Elon Musk in form of his brain chips, or from someone who is using it for identification and payment.
I know that one group of lunatics think that we are just animals for them, but I really don't care if someone is putting microchips in dogs and cats as preparation for doing the same thing with humans.
This is not related to Tangem Ring, so let's get back on topic.

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Quote from: SFR10 on August 11, 2024, 01:47:47 PM

I highly doubt authorities ^{[e.g. TSA]} will ever start to confiscate similar-looking rings of normal people unless

"Confiscation" doesn't necessarily have to be legal. Hispo says this here:

Quote from: Hispo on August 11, 2024, 01:56:11 PM

... all of it is just in order for the person to get scared and give their Satoshis to the officers.

Quote from: SFR10 on August 11, 2024, 01:47:47 PM

they think they're a criminal on the run ^{[in that case, they'll confiscate everything (not just the ring)]}.

A reason for a thorough search may even be a suspicion of the possibility of being a possible criminal on the run or not quite. If desired, these employees can easily find any reason for a private conversation with you, during which it is easy to find any crypto wallet.

Quote from: SFR10 on August 11, 2024, 01:47:47 PM

In addition to that, the ring alone isn't going to be enough to access their funds ^{[e.g. they need the access code as well]}.

The availability of the access code is also beyond doubt, since it is obtained through psychological or physical pressure, depending on the degree to which the authorities in a given country comply with the laws.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 08, 2024, 12:24:30 PM

Quote from: satscraper on July 26, 2024, 12:22:57 AM

Even If, God forbid, something goes wrong with your cardiac valve? ( Not exactly under skin, but still into your body)

What kind a weird ass question is that? Roll Eyes

I was clearly speaking in contest of payment devices, chips and crap like that, but you can go ahead if you want and let someone else perform all kinds of experiments on you if you want.

I would not go so far as calling it an experiment. Not to put too fine a point on it but (at least here in the US) people have been micro-chipping their pets for years. So it's not like it's new. While traveling it's probably going to be fun to explain what that thing is in your hand to airport security if you do have one implanted.

-Dave

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Quote from: SFR10 on August 11, 2024, 01:47:47 PM

Quote from: Hispo on August 11, 2024, 08:53:43 AM

Nobody in airports or port of entry in other countries used to pay attention to others wearing black or white rings, as soon this becomes a trend within the whole of gadgets and technology, I am quite sure authorities in those places will start to pay attention to them and even ask for people to give them to them for a while, so they can verify there is nothing illegal stored in them or something.

I highly doubt authorities ^{[e.g. TSA]} will ever start to confiscate similar-looking rings of normal people unless they think they're a criminal on the run ^{[in that case, they'll confiscate everything (not just the ring)]}. In addition to that, the ring alone isn't going to be enough to access their funds ^{[e.g. they need the access code as well]}.

Then perhaps I am being a little bit too much paranoid then, probably because I live in a country which is very corrupted and airport officers would not doubt much if they noticed someone carrying a hardware wallet in order for them to interrogate that person and probably accuse them of money laundering or terrorism, all of it is just in order for the person to get scared and give their Satoshis to the officers. It has happened before, but with other kinds of assets, like gold rings and cash.
I have got a friend how moved to Chile and he witnesses how a military woman almost managed to steal a loaf of cash from one of the passengers who was going together with him, in the last minute the cash appeared, because the consulate representative was pressuring the officers to seek for the money.
One of the reasons people are likely to hide their cash when fleeing this place.

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Quote from: Hispo on August 11, 2024, 08:53:43 AM

Nobody in airports or port of entry in other countries used to pay attention to others wearing black or white rings, as soon this becomes a trend within the whole of gadgets and technology, I am quite sure authorities in those places will start to pay attention to them and even ask for people to give them to them for a while, so they can verify there is nothing illegal stored in them or something.

I highly doubt authorities ^{[e.g. TSA]} will ever start to confiscate similar-looking rings of normal people unless they think they're a criminal on the run ^{[in that case, they'll confiscate everything (not just the ring)]}. In addition to that, the ring alone isn't going to be enough to access their funds ^{[e.g. they need the access code as well]}.

Hispo

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I believe it is quite an interesting Idea, but instead of going all in and using a ring to confirm and sign transactions of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, it would be more constructive to use these kinds of devices as methods of online authentication (together with our phones). I am also honestly worried on whether this kinds of devices could be targeted by thieves as others have expressed in this thread. Nobody in airports or port of entry in other countries used to pay attention to others wearing black or white rings, as soon this becomes a trend within the whole of gadgets and technology, I am quite sure authorities in those places will start to pay attention to them and even ask for people to give them to them for a while, so they can verify there is nothing illegal stored in them or something.

I would personally I would not dare to wear more in my finger, beyond a couple of dollars to pay for a coffee using Litecoin, Monero, or other fast-to-move alternative coins.

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Quote from: satscraper on July 26, 2024, 12:22:57 AM

Even If, God forbid, something goes wrong with your cardiac valve? ( Not exactly under skin, but still into your body)

What kind a weird ass question is that? Roll Eyes

I was clearly speaking in contest of payment devices, chips and crap like that, but you can go ahead if you want and let someone else perform all kinds of experiments on you if you want.

SFR10

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Quote from: satscraper on July 25, 2024, 02:30:53 AM

However, contrary to Tangem Ring, those stuff that are "just normal things" are not stabbed (constantly) at smartphone. Thus, I still believe that persons with wallet in the ring form-factor can be easyly spotted and tracked.

You have a point, but I don't think it'd make sense to use it in a public space because of the fact that in order to make it work, we have to remove it from our fingers first ^{[even with a privacy screen protector on our phones, it'll surely attract a lot of attention (especially by snatchers)]}.

Quote from: satscraper on July 25, 2024, 02:30:53 AM

Besides, any ring stuff has a tendency to get lost.

Another reason why I think it's not going to have a significant sales volume.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 25, 2024, 03:58:09 PM

I don't know anyone who ever lost a ring, it's not something you often take off.

Hm, I suppose you don't wear such stuff.

My wife lost three of them, very expensive gold ones, one even with diamond. I myself have lost my ring , just misplaced it but not remembering where.

People commonly take them off when take a bath. Besides, wearing ring for a long time results in the dermal irritation thus you are bound to take it off.

People will lost them, Tangem Ring including.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 25, 2024, 03:58:09 PM

This must be one of the worst thing ever imagined.

Your instance didn't convince me, sorry.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 25, 2024, 03:58:09 PM

Nobody is going to inject anything under my skin ever. Tongue

Even If, God forbid, something goes wrong with your cardiac valve? ( Not exactly under skin, but still into your body)

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Quote from: satscraper on July 24, 2024, 06:10:57 AM

I would prefer to inject under my skin the subdermal crypto wallet , the stuff like this Apex Flex developed by VivoKey Technologies

This must be one of the worst thing ever imagined.
Nobody is going to inject anything under my skin ever. Tongue

I am not defending Ring wallet, but people are wearing rings for a very long time, and they are not attracting that much attention, no matter if they are gold, silver, ceramic or any other material.

Quote from: satscraper on July 25, 2024, 02:30:53 AM

Besides, any ring stuff has a tendency to get lost.

I don't know anyone who ever lost a ring, it's not something you often take off.

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Quote from: SFR10 on July 24, 2024, 11:29:54 AM

. There are a lot of other low-profile smart rings in the market and AFAIK, almost all of them are some kind of fitness tracker and the rest are just normal rings.

However, contrary to Tangem Ring, those stuff that are "just normal things" are not stabbed (constantly) at smartphone. Thus, I still believe that persons with wallet in the ring form-factor can be easyly spotted and tracked.

Besides, any ring stuff has a tendency to get lost.

SFR10

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Quote from: satscraper on July 24, 2024, 06:10:57 AM

I would prefer to inject under my skin the subdermal crypto wallet , the stuff like this Apex Flex developed by VivoKey Technologies, rather than wear the ring on my finger,

I had no idea such a thing existed ^{[quite interesting]}, but I did some digging and it appears that it could suddenly stop working ^[1:06].

Quote from: satscraper on July 24, 2024, 06:10:57 AM

which explicitly identifies me as BTC holder.

What I'm about to say is going to sound like I'm trying to defend them ^{[I'm not]}, but I strongly disagree with the above line... There are a lot of other low-profile smart rings in the market and AFAIK, almost all of them are some kind of fitness tracker and the rest are just normal rings.
^{- FWIW, I don't think Tangem will have a lot of customers for these rings!}

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I would prefer to inject under my skin the subdermal crypto wallet , the stuff like this Apex Flex developed by VivoKey Technologies, rather than wear the ring on my finger, which explicitly identifies me as BTC holder. Those who will wear Tangem Rings automatically become to be very attractive to $5 wrench.

dkbit98

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Quote from: DaveF on July 19, 2024, 03:57:24 PM

So I would guess it's just the RFID and stuff from a card put into a ring. Can't see the firmware or software being any different.

There are already manufacturers in China who are making ring devices like this, so I guess they just made a deal to make them custom device with Ring logo.
Even with two added cards in package I think that it is not worth that much money for this.
Little bird told me that open source alternative ring wallet will come out soon and it's going to be cheaper than $160.

SFR10

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 19, 2024, 02:42:08 PM

Tangem just announced that limited pre-sale for their new Ring device started, but I was not happy when I saw the price of $160 (+shipping), that is more expensive than other popular hardware wallets.

Quote from: DaveF on July 19, 2024, 03:57:24 PM

From their site:

Quote

The Tangem Ring is functionally the same as the new Tangem Wallet cards, except for its different form factor.

Considering that it doesn't bring anything new to the table while it's almost triple the price of the two Tangem Wallet cards ^{[or double the price, if we remove the two backup cards from the equation]}, it doesn't make sense for Tangem users to upgrade to this HW ^{[especially since the only way to get it to work is by removing the ring from our fingers]}!

For those who might be interested, the thebitcoinhole's promo code for Tangem Wallets also works for this ^{[it'll be $144]}.

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Now that Samsung is making their own Smart Rings that will most likely become pretty main stream, what is your opinion on wearing the Tangem Ring? Is it a good thing that Smart Rings are becoming more popular for Tangem owners or is it not?

I am kind of skeptical for a few reasons. One being that once Samsung Rings become more widely known and used, wearing a dark ring on your fingers could trigger specific negative Events. Authorities seizing it from you, getting it checked and or seized at the Airport or even becoming the target of thieves.

I have seen people with dark rings on their fingers before, but I never thought of it as an expensive item. Pretty much the opposite instead, as it looks like a regular metal or stone ring. The launch of Smart Rings could change this.

Topic: Tangem Ring HW - The Lord of the Rings? (Read 598 times)