tax on bitcoin profits in scandinavia? - page 2.

twthmoses

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Quote from: Serpens66 on August 12, 2017, 04:31:41 AM

Denmark:
A danish tax accountant recently told me, that there are no speical rules for bitcoin taxation yet, BUT:
bitcoin is taxed the same way like profits from gold or diamonds and so on. So your profits are taxed with your income tax.

Problem with taxing as gold or diamonds or stocks, or cows for that matter, is that a lot of tax deduction followers (ligningsmæssige fradrag). Not sure if they are ready for that on a grant scale. Is bitcoins even workable under skattekontrollovens § 3C ?

Piggy

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Quote from: Merch on July 31, 2017, 06:05:10 AM

Sweden
I sold of bitcoin some years ago. When in contact with tax authoroties (skatteverket) I was eventually told to declare the money as capital gains and pay 30% tax on it - and so I did :\.

I think also in Finland is the same, 30% till 37% if above somehing like 50k€, any Finn in here can confirm i understood correctly?

pshemek

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der er ikke nogen regler om dette problem endnu men mon ikke der kommer på et tidspunkt

Serpens66

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Denmark:
A danish tax accountant recently told me, that there are no speical rules for bitcoin taxation yet, BUT:
bitcoin is taxed the same way like profits from gold or diamonds and so on. So your profits are taxed with your income tax.

Mindin

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Same thing in Norway, no matter what you trade, if you make a profit you will have to pay tax on that profit.

Zstrombius

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The way I understand this from Skatteverket Sweden:
https://www.skatteverket.se/privat/skatter/vardepapper/andratillgangar/virtuellavalutor.4.15532c7b1442f256bae11b60.html?q=bitcoins

Is that no matter what it is you trade, if you make a profit you pay tax on the profit. As simple as that. If you buy bitcoins, poems or dogshit for FIAT currency like SEK (Swedish Kronor) at a lower price and then sell for SEK at a higher price you are considered to have made a profit.

I have just started to learn about bitcoins and ofcourse every one wants to make taxfree money, but is it really what it is all about? To avoid paying taxes or is it something else? I don't really know. Do I want to enjoy "free" healthcare and other social benefits without paying taxes? The wonderful thing about bitcoins is that it forces us to question the whole financial system. Who knows where this will take us. One thing is for sure.... I think we're in for a bumpy ride for the years to come.

Mindin

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Quote from: cryptotore on August 05, 2017, 06:06:21 PM

Quote from: Mindin on July 28, 2017, 04:38:57 AM

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 16, 2017, 12:44:44 PM

Quote from: Mindin on July 14, 2017, 09:16:13 AM

You will have to pay income tax on crypto in Norway. 27%

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19938861

Ok, sure. Guess they lowered the taxrate. It was at 27 percent at one point, as far as I can see currently it stands at 24 percent. Not a huge difference but still everything counts.

Sweet, I thought it was 28%! /dance

Hey there

I hope the taxrate keeps going down. I would like to see 20% within the next five years.

cryptotore

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Quote from: Mindin on July 28, 2017, 04:38:57 AM

Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 16, 2017, 12:44:44 PM

Quote from: Mindin on July 14, 2017, 09:16:13 AM

You will have to pay income tax on crypto in Norway. 27%

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19938861

Ok, sure. Guess they lowered the taxrate. It was at 27 percent at one point, as far as I can see currently it stands at 24 percent. Not a huge difference but still everything counts.

Sweet, I thought it was 28%! /dance

Mindin

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In Norway, not only will one need to pay regular income tax on profits, one would also need to pay a wealth tax on what the BTC holding is worth. This goes for 2017 and beyond.

Merch

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Sweden
I sold of bitcoin some years ago. When in contact with tax authoroties (skatteverket) I was eventually told to declare the money as capital gains and pay 30% tax on it - and so I did :\.

Nomad88

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Tax deduction of Bitcoin asset or any income that was made in cryptocurrency world can be based on nothing but trust. There is no other way than personal statement as an evidence of ownership for a wallet. What is tax office going to do if a person claims to loose his private keys. Or denies the ownership of a wallet with thousands of coins. Bitcoin tracing is difficult but Monero is close to impossible, and there are some coins which makes tracing impossible. Most people here seem to be forgetting the liberty which is one of the most important revolution Bitcoin gave us. In fact, not understanding the main idea behind this decentralized system.

dreamer81

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Quote from: Serpens66 on July 22, 2017, 09:33:56 PM

I was told from a danish speaking person, that in denmark it is like this (example with USD instead of BTC, to make it more clear):
If you buy USD for a trip to USA and when you come back you have some USD left and sell it for EUR again, you do not have to pay taxes if you made a profit with this exchange (buying USD and selling USD). Because you had no intention to make any profit with this.
But if you intend to make profit, you have to pay taxes.

And that is true. If you buy BTC because to intend to make profit, you will have to pay taxes. Practically that means that all businesses that invest in BTC pays tax, but all private persons dont.
It will be impossible to prove in court that you bought the bitcoin to make a profit (unless you just pleads guilty). No private persons have been sued by the state/tax gov etc. to pay profits of their btc earnings.

Mindin

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Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 16, 2017, 12:44:44 PM

Quote from: Mindin on July 14, 2017, 09:16:13 AM

You will have to pay income tax on crypto in Norway. 27%

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19938861

Ok, sure. Guess they lowered the taxrate. It was at 27 percent at one point, as far as I can see currently it stands at 24 percent. Not a huge difference but still everything counts.

Serpens66

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Quote from: dreamer81 on July 22, 2017, 04:32:38 AM

of course.
And by the way its a wonder why people dont utilize this more. All the worlds bitcoin traders, should open danish bank accounts and avoid a bigg buttload of taxes..

http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oID=2156173
the danish national bank doesn't consider bitcoin have any value.

1) To take advantage from tax laws in a specific country, a bank account is not enough. You have to move to that country, so have resident and your life in this country.

2) As far as I can tell from google translate, this article does say nothing about regular bitcoin trading:

Quote from: Serpens66 on June 19, 2017, 03:06:09 AM

Are you sure there is no tax for private traders on bitcoin profits? Maybe you have some kind of source? The coindesk article ( http://www.coindesk.com/denmark-declares-bitcoin-trades-tax-free/ ) seems to refer to this :
http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2156173&vId=0
As far as I understand this is about the question, if a company, that is accepting bitcoin as payment, has to pay tax/declare losses on price changes during getting the bitcoin and selling them. The authorities came to concluison that the company is not forced to accept bitcoin as payment method, so they can't declare losses on bitcoin price changes (and also don't pay tax on income through this).
But I think this article does not say anything about bitcoin traders.

I was told from a danish speaking person, that in denmark it is like this (example with USD instead of BTC, to make it more clear):
If you buy USD for a trip to USA and when you come back you have some USD left and sell it for EUR again, you do not have to pay taxes if you made a profit with this exchange (buying USD and selling USD). Because you had no intention to make any profit with this.
But if you intend to make profit, you have to pay taxes.

dreamer81

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Quote from: Serpens66 on July 21, 2017, 02:05:33 PM

Quote from: dreamer81 on July 21, 2017, 01:43:08 PM

Just to make it clear so everybody understands it.

All profit gained from trading crypto in denmark as a private person is tax free.

So use private money to buy crypto for 1.000.000 EURO
sell them next week for 2.000.000 EURO and you just made yourself 1 million EURO.

The reason behind this is because the danish government (politicians) are so stupid that they dont understand what drives the world. They sit in their tight little government offices and think they can control the entire world with their stupid laws.

Do you have a source that 100% prooves this?

of course.
And by the way its a wonder why people dont utilize this more. All the worlds bitcoin traders, should open danish bank accounts and avoid a bigg buttload of taxes..

http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oID=2156173

the danish national bank doesn't consider bitcoin have any value.

Serpens66

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Quote from: dreamer81 on July 21, 2017, 01:43:08 PM

Just to make it clear so everybody understands it.

All profit gained from trading crypto in denmark as a private person is tax free.

So use private money to buy crypto for 1.000.000 EURO
sell them next week for 2.000.000 EURO and you just made yourself 1 million EURO.

The reason behind this is because the danish government (politicians) are so stupid that they dont understand what drives the world. They sit in their tight little government offices and think they can control the entire world with their stupid laws.

Do you have a source that 100% prooves this?

dreamer81

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Just to make it clear so everybody understands it.

All profit gained from trading crypto in denmark as a private person is tax free.

So use private money to buy crypto for 1.000.000 EURO
sell them next week for 2.000.000 EURO and you just made yourself 1 million EURO.

The reason behind this is because the danish government (politicians) are so stupid that they dont understand what drives the world. They sit in their tight little government offices and think they can control the entire world with their stupid laws.

Mindin

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Quote from: TheKoziTwo on July 04, 2017, 02:55:20 PM

Norway: In 2017 the capital gains tax is 24%. If you sell bitcoin, you pay 24% on profits. I hope you have proof of your purchases, because you may need to provide that later down the line. Any bitcoin holdings you have are supposed to be taxed with fortune tax, which is ~0.85% per year of your bitcoins (only applies if your fortune is 1 480 000 kr or more).

You can read the full details of the tax agency's opinion here:

Code:

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Bedrift-og-organisasjon/rapportering-og-bransjer/e-handel/skattemessige-konsekvenser-ved-bruk-av-bitcoins-og-andre-virtuelle-valutaer-for-privatpersoner/

I am of the personal opinion that fortune tax does not apply, the tax agency started claiming VAT is required on bitcoin, but changed their mind after EU came out with a declaration regarding bitcoin. No laws were changed. It is therefore possible that the tax agency is wrong on both fortune tax and capital gains tax, although I have no good legal argument against capital gains tax at this time and I will not reveal my argument against fortune tax as to not provide time for agency to figure out a comeback.

Quote from: jackfruit on June 30, 2017, 02:18:34 PM

Quote from: Nomad88 on June 30, 2017, 01:54:26 PM

This is not a unique problem for norway or denmark. I live in Oslo and in spite of all my effort, i couldn´t get any solid answer from state authorities. This is a commen problem as i have been investigating it in 2 other countries as well. So unless you are in a country like Japan or Netherland, you will never get answer for all your questions. The real problem here is that people that are representing legal authorities, most politicians and even most of their advisors have no clue about Bitcoin.

I do a lot of freelance work in Bicoin business. I called "skatteetaten" a few times in the past to find out more about tax regulations. First, they do not understand, if you try to explain they tell you that there is no legal liabilities for it.

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed country in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP and personal income tax rates border 55% or even higher depending on your income. How stupid is that they can´t hire a few cryptocurrency experts to work in tax department which will end up with them collecting more taxes. So if they do not give a s.it, why would i run after them with money in my hands.
Especially after my recent problems with them.... I give you an advise, in a country where your every single bank transaction is closely watched, make yourself a favour and keep your money in Bitcoin. Remember! Bitcoin is not only about decentralized and cheap currency solution, but also financial Freedom.

Yeah, sure. But who will pay for the military, police, fire departement and so on if noone should pay taxes, or should we just let your house burn down if need be?

I do understand your frustration mate, but it is not right to advice people to hide their assets. Yes, taxes are quite high in Norway, in fact it is one of the highest in the world, but this is also what makes this country such a good place. High standards, good health care, free education and etc. If people start using Bitcoin to hide their assets, it will cause some serious problems in the future. However, i do aggree with you about legal departments not having enough eligiable employements. I just think this think take time, and somehow it takes little longer in skandinavia...

Taxes is the antithesis of anything good. If you want a better society the best you can do is to avoid taxes and encourage others to do the same. The more people who operate outside of the state the better for society. Taxes does not produce wealth, it distributes it. It's a strike of luck that Norway has its oil reserves, but the luck will run out.

TheKoziTwo

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Quote from: Mindin on July 14, 2017, 09:16:13 AM

You will have to pay income tax on crypto in Norway. 27%

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19938861

Mindin

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You will have to pay income tax on crypto in Norway. 27%

Topic: tax on bitcoin profits in scandinavia? - page 2. (Read 13358 times)