TERRACOIN ATTACK OVER 1.2TH ATTACK CONFIRMD - page 8.

gyverlb

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on July 26, 2013, 08:09:35 AM

They day when less power efficient ASIC become unprofitable on bitcoin is very, very, very far in the future. Maybe years. Kids in their basements with free (parent paid) electricity have a very high threshold for expenses.

Not sure: unlike GPUs, you can't sell your mining hardware to someone who won't mine with it and the current reward/electricity is 50:1.
With stable prices when the total hashrate reaches 10PH/s, Avalons/BFL and 1st gen ASICMINER chips will become unprofitable.

400GH/s miners based on bitfury chips with at least 6x better energy efficiency are being ordered right now and competition seems to come for them too. This is at a price point comparable to what batch3 Avalon were sold for not so long ago. Very, very, very far in the future might just be 2014...

Arbitrageur

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many thanks

Quote

if the transaction is recorded on the blockchain then it is an issue with the recipient simply not giving credit. There is no such thing as "not complete". A transaction is either confirmed or it isn't confirmed.

very much appreciated. in fact the amount is withheld by the exchange without any official statement on the matter

roy7

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Quote from: Arbitrageur on July 26, 2013, 09:33:36 AM

I'll ask again and an answer from experts will be very much appreciated:

what's the issue with trasferring TRC right now? yesterday everything was still working, 100 confirmations were required by many exchanges but the trasfers were still working, then since last night (CET time) they stopped working and TRC don't reach the account of destination, seem to be lost in the web, anybody has any clue here?

has anybody been succesfull in trasferring trc in the last 10 hrs?

if someone has, I guess it's the exchange I send the TRC to which is witholding the deposit.

thanks in advance.

Even if your transactions had 120+ confirms, the attacker can still wipe them out by providing thousands of new blocks in a moment, thus getting a longer chain and making everything else invalid. When this happens, your coins never actually were sent (since the block chain with the transfer "never happened"), and instead they would still be wherever they were previously.

If your coins were mined after the attack started and the blocks that you mined are wiped out, then the coins you earned for mining those blocks no longer exist.

Transfers will remain unreliable until at least block 175,000 when the patched client will change the algorithm to prevent this sort of attack (as far as we can tell). In the mean time the attacker is free to do what he wants and continue minting coins only for himself.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Arbitrageur on July 26, 2013, 09:33:36 AM

I'll ask again and an answer from experts will be very much appreciated:

what's the issue with trasferring TRC right now? yesterday everything was still working, 100 confirmations were required by many exchanges but the trasfers were still working, then since last night (CET time) they stopped working and TRC don't reach the account of destination, seem to be lost in the web, anybody has any clue here?

has anybody been succesfull in trasferring trc in the last 10 hrs?

if someone has, I guess it's the exchange I send the TRC to which is witholding the deposit.

thanks in advance.

This applies to any crypto-currency. If the transaction is recorded on the blockchain then it is an issue with the recipient simply not giving credit. There is no such thing as "not complete". A transaction is either confirmed or it isn't confirmed. Now if I was running an exchange right now given how trivially easy it would be to deposit, exchange, double spend I wouldn't be posting ANY deposits not even ones with 1,000 confirmations.

Arbitrageur

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I'll ask again and an answer from experts will be very much appreciated:

what's the issue with trasferring TRC right now? yesterday everything was still working, 100 confirmations were required by many exchanges but the trasfers were still working, then since last night (CET time) they stopped working and TRC don't reach the account of destination, seem to be lost in the web, anybody has any clue here?

has anybody been succesfull in trasferring trc in the last 10 hrs?

if someone has, I guess it's the exchange I send the TRC to which is witholding the deposit.

thanks in advance.

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: CoinHoarder on July 25, 2013, 11:29:16 PM

Poor Terracoin... SHA256 ALTs are going to be seeing some troubling times as ASICs become more widespread.

However, I think over time that this will decrease. As less power efficient ASICs become unprofitable on Bitcoin, ASIC owners will be looking for another way to use their machines other than as a paper weight. I predict most of these people will switch to SHA256 ALTs, which will greatly increase the network speed and help to fight off attacks such as this.

The above mentioned movement is akin to the Bitcoin ASICs moving the GPU power over to Scrypt coins. It is just another inevitable step in the evolution of mining hardware and crypto currencies.

It will be interesting to find out if I am right, but I predict at least one SHA256 ALT to really become popular like Litecoin once certain ASICs start becoming unprofitable on Bitcoin. Which one will be the lucky winner? That's anyone guess, I am thinking a new SHA256 coin will come out in the next year or so that will blow all the others out of the water. Hopefully it is one that is innovative and brings something positive to the world of ALT coins. All the current SHA-256 ALTs are not very innovative IMO.

They day when less power efficient ASIC become unprofitable on bitcoin is very, very, very far in the future. Maybe years. Kids in their basements with free (parent paid) electricity have a very high threshold for expenses.

Arbitrageur

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Quote

yeah i rebuilt last night and there have been no commits since... still about 4500 more blocks for the patch to kick in... so i guess 90k TRC more to our attackers before the fix may or maynot work... probably we see some chain forking then. Anyone know if the exchanges will upgrade their clients before 175000 ?

what's happening to the coins that have been moved since last night? they didn't hit the destination address (I'm waiting them on my btc-e account, but not even showing as pending) even after 100 confirmations required, are they lost? will be deposited anytime? what's your opinion on this issue?

Arbitrageur

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I wrote to btc-e to advise the update.

turtle83

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Supersonic

Quote from: Arbitrageur on July 26, 2013, 07:15:59 AM

there seems to be an update:

https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin/issues/12

and a new client update

http://terracoin.org/news/

Terracoin update 0.1.3-42 is now available for download at our sourceforge mirror and github repository.

Quote

This build addresses the difficulty manipulation issue currently seen on the live chain, and will be mandatory on block 175000.

The code allowing such difficulty manipulations was added to the client prior to the ema difficulty adjustment implementation, it should have been removed from the client long ago to prevent this.

Once most network nodes are updated, and block 175000 is reached, the capped ema implementation should take care of abnormally forged blocks ; as usual, this is supposing the network gets more hashing power than the attacker(s).

With the current artificially decreased difficulty, and the network hashing power way higher than the 'awaited' rate, network will generate a lot of orphan blocks until this issue is addressed.

yeah i rebuilt last night and there have been no commits since... still about 4500 more blocks for the patch to kick in... so i guess 90k TRC more to our attackers before the fix may or maynot work... probably we see some chain forking then. Anyone know if the exchanges will upgrade their clients before 175000 ?

Arbitrageur

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there seems to be an update:

https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin/issues/12

and a new client update

http://terracoin.org/news/

Terracoin update 0.1.3-42 is now available for download at our sourceforge mirror and github repository.

Quote

This build addresses the difficulty manipulation issue currently seen on the live chain, and will be mandatory on block 175000.

The code allowing such difficulty manipulations was added to the client prior to the ema difficulty adjustment implementation, it should have been removed from the client long ago to prevent this.

Once most network nodes are updated, and block 175000 is reached, the capped ema implementation should take care of abnormally forged blocks ; as usual, this is supposing the network gets more hashing power than the attacker(s).

With the current artificially decreased difficulty, and the network hashing power way higher than the 'awaited' rate, network will generate a lot of orphan blocks until this issue is addressed.

intelliminer

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Quote from: crazyearner on July 26, 2013, 05:05:45 AM

24 hours and seems they was an update but for something else. I wonder if devs are even aware of this and are going to hard fork. I know if its not hard forked then this coin is forked for good.

The dev did say in the issue though his fix was for this issue.

twobits

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Quote from: hanzac on July 25, 2013, 09:52:04 PM

The timing is not ticking. So the attacker can continue mining at the low difficulty because he fake a special timestamps set. Extremely clever and know the implementation of the diff algorithm.

Maybe the same group that attacked the FTC.

Sounds like the time warp attack. What was TRC forked from?

Mavy

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Just realised the checkpoint was part of the "corrupted" blocks aswell.
I have to agree that its getting hard to recover from this tho.

crazyearner

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24 hours and seems they was an update but for something else. I wonder if devs are even aware of this and are going to hard fork. I know if its not hard forked then this coin is forked for good.

gr0bi42

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Quote from: Mavy on July 26, 2013, 02:27:53 AM

Quote from: flound1129 on July 25, 2013, 02:53:00 PM

Quote from: roy7 on July 25, 2013, 02:20:18 PM

I see they rejected the checkpoint someone did a pull request on earlier. The "current chain" the exchanges are relying on are, I assume, the one full of the blocks from the attacker...

So the devs are active but either not aware of the problem or actively working against a fix? Not making me feel any better...

That pull request was actually merged and not rejected (https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin/pull/11).

The change was merged and later removed. And the time travel bug is still present...

Mavy

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Quote from: flound1129 on July 25, 2013, 02:53:00 PM

Quote from: roy7 on July 25, 2013, 02:20:18 PM

I see they rejected the checkpoint someone did a pull request on earlier. The "current chain" the exchanges are relying on are, I assume, the one full of the blocks from the attacker...

So the devs are active but either not aware of the problem or actively working against a fix? Not making me feel any better...

That pull request was actually merged and not rejected (https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin/pull/11).

Schleicher

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I just installed Terracoin 0.1.3-42 here.
Now the download bar jumps back and forth between 18 and 19 hours behind.
Block 168940 and counting (10-20 seconds per block).
I guess this has to do with the currect problem discussed here.

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: roy7 on July 25, 2013, 11:30:39 PM

TRC has multiple real ASIC miners on it already. This isn't an issue of an ASIC coming in and rocking the boat. It's some sort of timewarp attack where the attacker gets to use a 5K difficulty but the rest of us use a far higher one and can't possibly compete...

Ah, I haven't been keeping up with this attack. I just assumed it was a standard 51% attack.

I should probably read the thread before posting. Wink

roy7

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TRC has multiple real ASIC miners on it already. This isn't an issue of an ASIC coming in and rocking the boat. It's some sort of timewarp attack where the attacker gets to use a 5K difficulty but the rest of us use a far higher one and can't possibly compete...

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Poor Terracoin... SHA256 ALTs are going to be seeing some troubling times as ASICs become more widespread.

However, I think over time that this will decrease. As less power efficient ASICs become unprofitable on Bitcoin, ASIC owners will be looking for another way to use their machines other than as a paper weight. I predict most of these people will switch to SHA256 ALTs, which will greatly increase the network speed and help to fight off attacks such as this.

The above mentioned movement is akin to the Bitcoin ASICs moving the GPU power over to Scrypt coins. It is just another inevitable step in the evolution of mining hardware and crypto currencies.

It will be interesting to find out if I am right, but I predict at least one SHA256 ALT to really become popular like Litecoin once certain ASICs start becoming unprofitable on Bitcoin. Which one will be the lucky winner? That's anyone guess, I am thinking a new SHA256 coin will come out in the next year or so that will blow all the others out of the water. Hopefully it is one that is innovative and brings something positive to the world of ALT coins. All the current SHA-256 ALTs are not very innovative IMO.

Topic: TERRACOIN ATTACK OVER 1.2TH ATTACK CONFIRMD - page 8. (Read 28159 times)