Tesla and market manipulation crime | Bitcointalksearch.org

seoincorporation

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Let's take this topic back to life because he did it again...

16 hours ago he made a post on twitter with the title 'Tesla & Bitcoin', the tweet is the next one:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203

And there he posts the next photo where he explains how tesla will stop accepting bitcoin...

We all can guess what happens after that.

Boom, -10% in the past 24h and I still think we can call that market manipulation.

SimpleMan

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Quote from: kryptqnick on May 08, 2021, 11:00:05 AM

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Honestly, I didn't know that pump and dump was illegal. I mean, surely it's a morally questionable and harmful strategy, but making it illegal seems a little far-fetched to me. And isn't it what guys on Wall Street do all the time? Isn't it how trading largely works?
In any case, Tesla invested in BTC and announced it. This definitely doesn't qualify as anything illegal. And any company has the right to cash out on investments whenever they see fit.
Besides, Bitcoin is not low on trading volume, so I don't think investments into it can lead to legal action.

I agree and it is only so controversial because it's about Elon Musk. If it was some average dude with maybe just a hundred million net worth nobody would even be discussing such tweets. I fully agree that it's controversial but so what? Send Musk to jail for communicating his opinion? It is a problematic case but he wouldn't b doing what he is doing if he wasn't certain that nothing can be done to him in terms of manipulation and the applicable laws.

Yamifoud

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Quote from: acener on May 09, 2021, 06:49:47 AM

They didn't manipulate it they invested on it and sold when they already reach the profit that they want.
So if a whale sold some of their coin it would be considered as manipulation crime?
They just announced their investment they didn't force others to invest on it,
Everyone who invested after Tesla joins did it on their own and they could also follow the path and sell their crypto.

Perhaps, it was their choice to invest in Bitcoin, not by following Elon Musk. And that fact that Elon is rich and is too far to compare to ourselves. He has a kind of vision that we never have and he has the potential to influence the market if he wants, nobody can stop that since this is a free market and definitely, it wasn't a crime.
But I believe that OP does not literally give the meaning of manipulation is a crime unless if Elon did this to fraud others and brings the life of people to become miserable which I never saw it.

ene1980

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 10, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

You are not getting the point mate, I'm not talking about the fact that tesla allows bitcoin payments for their cars, I'm talking about the fact that they bought $1.5B of btc and when the coin hit the moon they sold 10% of that stack.

It is called trading, then what do you think these investors should do, when they think they had enough profit they will book the profit and there is nothing illegal about it.

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 10, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

If this is the case, then why John McAfee gets charged with fraud over cryptocurrency? even if cryptos are not considered money, people can make fraud with it, and people can make market manipulation with it.

John McAfee is a proven scammer, he took money from scammers and promised everyone that they are the best projects and faked the genuinity of the project and many investors lost millions and that is the reason he is charged with fraud.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: Rkss4 on May 08, 2021, 12:58:40 PM

Tesla company which accepted bitcoin as their payments systems but why Tesla manipulation consider it crimes. Elon musk accepted bitcoin as exchange by tesla but he doesn't force anybody to buy Tesla with bitcoin.

You are not getting the point mate, I'm not talking about the fact that tesla allows bitcoin payments for their cars, I'm talking about the fact that they bought $1.5B of btc and when the coin hit the moon they sold 10% of that stack.

Quote from: concept2 on May 09, 2021, 06:26:29 AM

Bitcoin is not a recognized asset by any authorities. Most brokers and exchange in US only provide you tools and network to access bitcoin trading so I do not think that Tesla will be responsible for that issue

If this is the case, then why John McAfee gets charged with fraud over cryptocurrency? even if cryptos are not considered money, people can make fraud with it, and people can make market manipulation with it.

Ecol

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Tesla or Elon has a lot of bitcoins. So he will make moves to praise bitcoin and ethereum. I think he sells it when he's quiet. As an example, we can give April 24, in that big fall, Elon did not speak up.

tygeade

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

I think making it public is something that they are supposed to do, they shouldn’t keep their investment in Bitcoin a private. And there are other big institutions too that have been making investments before Tesla, and we don’t know how far with them. We are all keeping an eye on Tesla because it’s a very popular company with the influence of Elon Musk.

When they first made this their investment I was telling my friends that it’s not going to be something they will hold forever, there will still come a time that they will decide to sell it. They have sold 10% and now 90% left, we don’t know what’s next.

acener

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They didn't manipulate it they invested on it and sold when they already reach the profit that they want.
So if a whale sold some of their coin it would be considered as manipulation crime?
They just announced their investment they didn't force others to invest on it,
Everyone who invested after Tesla joins did it on their own and they could also follow the path and sell their crypto.

concept2

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Bitcoin is not a recognized asset by any authorities. Most brokers and exchange in US only provide you tools and network to access bitcoin trading so I do not think that Tesla will be responsible for that issue

ILuckyGuyI

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Quote from: Ryker1 on May 08, 2021, 04:56:39 PM

Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 08, 2021, 04:20:13 PM

It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

Well, as you can see and I respect what your point is, but for me, there is no manipulating the price there, it is a big investor who also wants to keep and hold because they saw that it has the potential to gain profit in a long run and even how big the fund they will invest, that is a small amount for them. Perhaps they are just simple investors like us but only for a small amount that can afford. But if you are talking with Elon Musk's side, it could be he wants to shill his token and bitcoin as well.

Yeah, I know that his goal is not just manipulating the market. Tesla made that huge investment due to they saw a potential in Bitcoin of course. But even if that was not on purpose, they manipulated the price very easily. As long as the price increases in such situations there won't be so many people who will oppose, but in an opposite scenario, it will be too bad for the investors.

scarface97

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I don't think tesla manipulates the cryptocurrency market. As Tesla invests in cryptocurrencies, the cryptocurrency market can rise even more. Thanks to tesla and elon musk, people can be more aware of cryptocurrencies. he devotes a lot of time to them tesla and elon musk. I don't think it's a crime.

Ryker1

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on May 08, 2021, 04:20:13 PM

It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

Well, as you can see and I respect what your point is, but for me, there is no manipulating the price there, it is a big investor who also wants to keep and hold because they saw that it has the potential to gain profit in a long run and even how big the fund they will invest, that is a small amount for them. Perhaps they are just simple investors like us but only for a small amount that can afford. But if you are talking with Elon Musk's side, it could be he wants to shill his token and bitcoin as well.

ILuckyGuyI

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It was really a big manipulation when they bought BTC worth $1.5 billion. I liked it actually as it was in a good way. But I don't want to miss the point here because it shows how easy the market can be manipulated. I wonder whether this will change but I don't think so.

mindrust

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Lots of people hate Elon lately because the coin he pumped mainly (which is doge) sucked value out of the other alts and btc. Crypto ain't stocks and they are not regulated by the SEC yet as far as I know so I don't if what Elon is doing deserves to get punished.

If he was telling people the same stuff about Apple stocks then it would have been a different story probably. Elon also showed us that any coin can raise to the top. Its project, its past, its devs don't matter at all. One billionaire can manipulate everything.

AniviaBtc

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Quote from: Little Mouse on May 01, 2021, 09:54:25 AM

I don't think this can be considered as pump and dumo fraud. Tesla has bought bitcoin long ago, possibly around $30k per BTC. They didn’t sold all of their holding even. According to the article you shared, "if someone pump the price intentionally to increase the liquidity so that they can sell their holding, can be considered as fraud."
So, I think, tesla has no chance here to get punished.
On a side note, I think Elon Musk is having such fraud activity with Dogecoin if he is selling his DOGE.

Elon Musk will probably not do that as it will destroy his legitimacy and his reputation towards DOGE coin because if he do that, that means that he is just doing it for himself and not for other people. Also that signifies that he is just a fraud and just trolling in twitter by fooling people.

Still do your own research so that you are not strongly affected by these schemes.

Rkss4

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Tesla company which accepted bitcoin as their payments systems but why Tesla manipulation consider it crimes. Elon musk accepted bitcoin as exchange by tesla but he doesn't force anybody to buy Tesla with bitcoin.

pawanjain

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

I don't think that can be considered as market manipulation because Tesla didn't tell anybody else to buy bitcoin.
The company had bought bitcoin for itself and sold the 10% of the holding when they wanted to.
If the people are reacting to their trades then it's not Tesla's fault right. We can't blame them for buying bitcoin.

$crypto$

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Quote from: pinggoki on May 08, 2021, 10:08:26 AM

To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

We do not know if it is true that they completely manipulate so that many people are hypnotized by it? there is no legal basis in this case maybe everyone can do it but this is still a secret, we know Elon Musk's tweets are always controversial, even many are waiting for what is said in these tweets, therefore we must know that the market is moving on its own and no whale can control all of his this is just a blow to those who want to buy less.
And only Tesla's investments are in the opinion right now everywhere.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 01, 2021, 09:41:13 AM

What Tesla did with bitcoin could be considered market manipulation, and that's a serious crime considered by the US government. The fact that the company invested $1.5B and make it public that bring a lot of investors to bitcoin, and after that, we see how bitcoin has a crazy jump in the prize, and now they sold the 10% when bitcoin was on its ATH.

As a reference, I will leave this link: https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/market-manipulation-pump-and-dump-fraud

So, the question is, did tesla make market manipulation and you think the company will be charged for it?

Honestly, I didn't know that pump and dump was illegal. I mean, surely it's a morally questionable and harmful strategy, but making it illegal seems a little far-fetched to me. And isn't it what guys on Wall Street do all the time? Isn't it how trading largely works?
In any case, Tesla invested in BTC and announced it. This definitely doesn't qualify as anything illegal. And any company has the right to cash out on investments whenever they see fit.
Besides, Bitcoin is not low on trading volume, so I don't think investments into it can lead to legal action.

MrcMrc

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Quote from: rhomelmabini on May 08, 2021, 10:20:25 AM

Quote from: pinggoki on May 08, 2021, 10:08:26 AM

To those who really has the knowledge in crypto, they know that Elon Musk and the Tesla is just manipulating bitcoin especially the market in which they just want to earn and take more profit by hyping and hyping it to other people so that the price or the value of it to the market goes up and up. To be honest not all in the crypto wants the manipulation that has been doing by the Tesla and its founder Elon because of this market manipulation many people being manipulate and don't know how they will get back their money who has been invested on a very high amount of bitcoin.

Only noobs and FOMO guys will buy there calls now I think the law of diminishing returns finally hit on him, the tweets doesn't that much of a show right now. Though most of his followers are permabulls, I am not saying that it is not good for this market but I think he should refrain from it anymore. We just don't know he states a bull tweet yet he sold some of his assets that's totally bias considering the space isn't yet regulated.

Tesla as a company is just taking advantage of the present market and that is all that cryptocurrency investment is about, the fact is Elon Musk will constantly continue to tweets to support whatever coin he is holding.

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