Tesla: "We have converted approximately 75% of our BTC into fiat currency"

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Quote from: DeathAngel on July 26, 2022, 07:08:44 AM

My first thought on this weak weak hands but let’s be honest here, Musk is one of the most intelligent people on earth. Surely he's one step ahead of the game here. Maybe he’s calculated the probability that we fall from here & he can buy them all back much cheaper. Maybe he’s telling the truth & TESLA needed cash, hmmmmm.

Of course. Elon wouldn't sell without analyzing the market first. He's known to manipulate the public with his tweets, so I'm pretty sure he sold his BTC and cashed out big profits in the process. Since Elon Musk is a wealthy person, he can buy more BTC if he wants to and sell at a later time when the market turns bullish again. He really has nothing to lose. Unfortunately, the ones that will go "rekt" very badly are his followers. Those who usually invest into BTC or DOGE based on what Elon Musk says are basically newcomers into the world of crypto/Blockchain tech. They believe just because a wealthy person like Elon Musk is patronizing DOGE, means that it's a good long-term investment. But that's not really the case.

I think the media has concentrated a lot of attention into Elon Musk himself, greatly affecting (either positively or negatively) crypto prices within the short term. If this keeps up, then Mr. Musk would effectively control the crypto market to his hearts' content. Just my opinion

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Quote from: Hispo on July 20, 2022, 04:05:23 PM

I am not completely sure what price they bought in, but as mentioned before it seemed it was around 30k-50k.
Also, why would a company like Tesla be in such need for cash that they decided to sell their Bitcoin investment at a loss?

I believe it is highly unlikely they needed the cash, keeping in mind their stock price is relatively stable at the moment, around 700$ per share.
I'd dare the speculate that this was the result of pressure by some shareholders that thought it was a good idea to panic sell or perhaps this was a preventive measure in the advent of thougher environmental regulations against PoW cryptocurrencies and those companies that holds them.

In any case, this only works as a reminder that there are people in this forum that are more authentic Bitcoiners holding a few satothis than a big company holding thousands of BTC.

I'm on the same motion with you! I think they needed cash which was the most available to solve the issues they had at that point ( I heard they laid off some of them employees ). I also think they are still carrying experiment of holding Bitcoin. Some peeps who have Elon as them Social media influencer must have panicked sell though but did sell of those Bitcoins reduce the price of Bitcoin in anyway ?
No if I can recall vividly.

Fiat currency are debased and losses it value day after day, also backed by the government which we all know are in support of privacy and Bitcoin to an extent. It was a good chance for peeps to stack up those little SATs. If they did great, if they didn't then it's up too them own detriments. Bitcoin is a better investment when bought, and held for long term purpose ( 4- 7 year's interval )

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Quote from: uneng on July 20, 2022, 04:15:28 PM

Couldn't it be just another manipulative movement from Elon Musk to play with market's prices? He expects to be followed by big investors on his steps, so when he announces he is going to sell bitcoins or has sold bitcoins, others will simply do the same, dumping the price even more, therefore Tesla and Musk can buy bitcoin again much cheaper and increase their holdings, wealthy and influence.

Yeah! because most likely things like this are hidden from the public and no one really shares it unless they have hidden agenda concerning their moves. Though this is some kind of misfortune for them since they sold it low rather than holding it a little longer to recover their loss, this literally nothing to them compared to their total assets as a company. On the other hand, I consider this publicity a strategy to manipulate the crypto market at some point but people nowadays are wise and decisive, they won't just believe what they said.

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My first thought on this weak weak hands but let’s be honest here, Musk is one of the most intelligent people on earth. Surely he's one step ahead of the game here. Maybe he’s calculated the probability that we fall from here & he can buy them all back much cheaper. Maybe he’s telling the truth & TESLA needed cash, hmmmmm.

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Quote from: teosanru on July 22, 2022, 02:06:18 PM

This is really strange. They obviously cannot sell for loss or else this loss would have been reflected in their income statement and this would have been a big failure of Elon that he bought Bitcoin at such high levels only because he wanted and now sold it at loss just because of his wish. This will give a very bad image of Tesla's corporate governance. Moreover this would have been the new buzz of the market if this would have happened so I don't think this has happened so far.

Profit and loss are normal in business, I don't think it's a serious problem. Due to a lack of proof of their bitcoin buy price and bitcoin buying time, we cannot confirm they sold at a loss.

But there is one thing I agree with you here: selling bitcoin at a low price makes many people skeptical of their losses, will create a bad image, Elon's reputation will suffer and he will lose his influence in the crypto market.

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Quote from: FanEagle on July 22, 2022, 02:03:05 PM

Elon cannot really change the market as much as he thinks he could. Sure, it has been a "bad" market for the past 24 hours, but bitcoin has been 10%+ higher in the past week, and ETH has been 30%+ higher in the past week as well. So, just realize what you are doing and that would be something much better.

In the end, crypto is not in the hands of just one person, it's in the hands of many people and that is why there isn't any type of situation where people could end up selling or buying and creating a chaos in the market that would benefit them. Elon is doing that, he always says he bought it when he needs the price to go up, and says he sold it when he needs it to go down, and that manipulation stops eventually.

Crypto may not be in the hands of one person, but that doesn't mean an influential person like Elon Musk can't manipulate the market to his own will. There are many people following Mr. Musk simply because he's rich. You can see how Elon Musk's praise towards Dogecoin had a positive effect over its price. Remember when he criticized Bitcoin's "high energy consumption", causing a short fall in the cryptocurrency's price? If anything he says or does has an effect over the crypto market, then we'd easily know when to buy or when to sell our coins.

So far, Musk's strategy's been working. But it may not last for long if people get tired of him. The company selling 75% of its BTC holdings didn't have a negative effect over the cryptocurrency's price, anyways. Let's just turn the page and focus on "building" to make crypto/Blockchain land a better place. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: franky1 on July 22, 2022, 04:28:05 PM

Quote from: passwordnow on July 22, 2022, 04:24:33 PM

We're starting to see that the market is no longer that strong when someone influences it.

elond did not influence it. (EG tweet storm)
it was MEDIA exaggerating things and people are no longer fools to MEDIA

we know that elon/tesla did not sell coins the day media decided to report the story.
we also looked at the amount of coin sold weeks before media speculation and seemed it as old news that was already 'priced in' thus not a factor worthy of reacting to.

its the case that MEDIA is getting slow, taking to long to find worthy stories and that some people are starting to get wise to media tricks

though there are some in this topic that just clickbait fall for headlines and think that date of headlines/post is date of event. and ned correcting several times before it gets through to them, so still some education is needed

Yeah, they're both influencing it. Like if Elon does some tweets related to his companies or not as long as it's related to bitcoin, the media will swarm and take that moment of what he said and will publish it almost everywhere.
Good thing that everyone is no longer buying that news and is no longer panicking unlike before because when such news is being reported by the media, too many people panics as soon as they read the headlines.

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Quote from: uneng on July 20, 2022, 04:15:28 PM

Couldn't it be just another manipulative movement from Elon Musk to play with market's prices? He expects to be followed by big investors on his steps, so when he announces he is going to sell bitcoins or has sold bitcoins, others will simply do the same, dumping the price even more, therefore Tesla and Musk can buy bitcoin again much cheaper and increase their holdings, wealthy and influence.

Tesla has been accumulating bitcoin since a long time and it's hard to say what would be their average buying price.
May be it can be less than what they have sold for or may be it can be more than that.
But if they are thinking that by selling now they might get the opportunity to buy back lower then it's a huge risk for them.
Currently bitcoin price is holding steady at $22k and if BTC holds well then it might cross $25k soon.
Tesla might miss the boat to buy at a lower price and I think they should have sold above $40k itself to buy back lower.

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Quote from: Lucius on July 21, 2022, 08:10:34 AM

You have a very high opinion of this man as if he is someone whose opinion should mean something to Bitcoin, when in fact he is completely insignificant all the time trying to be at the center of something. A man bought BTC to attract the attention of the media, now he sold it to be in the center of attention again, and millions of followers on something he wanted to buy and gave up are waiting for his next prophecy.

I never said I had a high opinion of this man or his opinion should mean something to Bitcoin, not sure how you understood that. I personally despise Musk for the things he has done to his own advantage at the expense of others, but I can not ignore that Tesla's investment in Bitcoin did make an impact at the time and Musk successfully manipulated or moved a number of coins, including Bitcoin, through simple tweets and announcements.

He has influence, he has power. Even if he is not the most appreciated man in our community, it would be foolish to pretend his Bitcoin decisions do not have at least a slight, temporary influence over the market. Back when Tesla poured money into Bitcoin, it seemed like everyone here was going nuts over it.

-
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PrivacyG

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Quote from: franky1 on July 22, 2022, 03:36:08 PM

when i refer to elon. i am referring to the tesla stash.. because elon is tesla..(same human brain deciding.. even if its a diferent biological body or busines entity connected to that brain)

With the difference that Tesla has a board of directors that makes the decisions, it's not all Elon. They are also separate entities tax-wise. For this reason Elon bought BTC as a private investor and Tesla also bought their share. Musk called Bitcoin bad for the environment and dumped most (if not all) of his BTC. He claimed to hold some, but we don't know how much. Maybe just 1% of what he used to hold in Q1 2021.

Quote

so the coins sold in 2022 are coins acquired pre december 2020

Tesla reported bitcoin investment as a loss. If the coins were from 2020, why did they place it as something with negative impact on their balance sheet?

Quote

if you want to knit pick the name. of ethier company or human.. they are the same human decision maker but different name of entity.. but its all talking about the same stash of coin.

That's only if we agree that Elon has total complete authority over the board. I don't think it is so. Do you remember when they were trying to ban him from tweeting because the board claimed his actions could harm the company's image?

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Quote from: stompix on July 22, 2022, 07:25:05 AM

But speaking of equating stuff, why do we equate Tesla's decision with Musk's beliefs?
I've seen people mentioning that he sold ~900 million to pay for the Twitter fine, but these are Tesla's assets, not Musk's money.

The data says that EM is the largest individual owner of the company's shares with almost 16% of the shares, but I guess that doesn't give him the right to make decisions without the other owners - so you're right when you say that people shouldn't mix the two things. I was referring to the fact that people have the wrong perception of EM as someone who supports Bitcoin for the reasons it was created, and the man is just an investor who aims to make as much money as possible.

Honestly, I don't follow the Twitter saga closely, but it's not surprising to me that people draw various conclusions that don't make much sense.

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Why not, why keep those 25% in the wallet if they have already sold that much amount. They just sold it to overcome the other problems that company might be facing financially (that’s funny when you talk about billionaires company) but obviously every company has their own management system and if you see the screenshot then they have given the same reasons.

But being billion dollar company they should keep us in the safe zone and help markets flourish in positive ways.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on July 21, 2022, 06:15:32 PM

Quote from: tabas on July 21, 2022, 05:13:21 PM

Quote from: sbrys on July 21, 2022, 02:19:21 PM

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

Yeah, they're on the news, as in everywhere and the same time, their company name was on it. They get free advertising from almost every news agency, paper and in the mass media.
What a strategy for them, they just hope on to invest in a known cryptocurrency, they sell at profit and they get all the exposure that they want and needed for them to have more sale for their cars. A great strategy indeed.

Any form of advertising is indeed good for a company.
They may be selling at a loss but hey, they got a very good advertisement with their Tesla company.
Anyway, it is up to the people how they view this. But at the end of the day, you are the one taking care of your funds.
So a good advertisement or not, it is on your hands how you you react on this situation.

Are they at loss? I don't think so, I've remembered them selling 10% last year and that was near to the high or it was exactly at high. They won't settle for loss if they're going to sell.
They know how the market works and they're into business so basically, upon purchase, they aim for the profit and that's how they're going to make it and despite selling it at a lower price, they're still in profit.

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When I think about Tesla's coin purchases, I always thought they were in the $10k to $20k range. That seems to fit the time frame best. Since they sold most of the coins during the second quarter of this year, it means that most of the coins sold between $30k and $45k. So I don't think they sold it at a loss. Profit is the first priority for companies, after all.

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Quote from: passwordnow on July 22, 2022, 04:24:33 PM

We're starting to see that the market is no longer that strong when someone influences it.

elond did not influence it. (EG tweet storm)
it was MEDIA exaggerating things and people are no longer fools to MEDIA

we know that elon/tesla did not sell coins the day media decided to report the story.
we also looked at the amount of coin sold weeks before media speculation and seemed it as old news that was already 'priced in' thus not a factor worthy of reacting to.

its the case that MEDIA is getting slow, taking to long to find worthy stories and that some people are starting to get wise to media tricks

though there are some in this topic that just clickbait fall for headlines and think that date of headlines/post is date of event. and ned correcting several times before it gets through to them, so still some education is needed

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Quote from: FanEagle on July 22, 2022, 02:03:05 PM

In the end, crypto is not in the hands of just one person, it's in the hands of many people and that is why there isn't any type of situation where people could end up selling or buying and creating a chaos in the market that would benefit them. Elon is doing that, he always says he bought it when he needs the price to go up, and says he sold it when he needs it to go down, and that manipulation stops eventually.

We're starting to see that the market is no longer that strong when someone influences it. It's true that it all lies down to us, the people, and the demand for which we react when someone like Elon or Tesla or any other influence tells and does something about their holdings.
What he's doing is for his own sake and pumping his own money and he knows the market very well. He tells what people want to hear and him, seeing the effect of it favorable to him and has to do the right action of selling at prices where they're at profit.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 22, 2022, 01:16:50 PM

Quote from: franky1 on July 20, 2022, 06:25:39 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on July 20, 2022, 03:42:04 PM

They bought around February - March 2021 so 30-50k which means they sold at a loss adding power to the April - May crash.

no they didnt
elon bought his stash in-before december 2020. he reported it on the december 2020 filings..
.. those filings entered the media circus of speculation viral commenting about it in feb-march 2021

We aren't talking about Elon here but Tesla.

when i refer to elon. i am referring to the tesla stash.. because elon is tesla..(same human brain deciding.. even if its a diferent biological body or busines entity connected to that brain)

here is MEDIA talking about a buy in feb 2021 for tesla (i still see it as elon buying it due to him being CEO obviously)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/tesla-buys-1point5-billion-in-bitcoin.html
but IDIOTS call that the signal that elon/tesla bought in february 2021..
NOPE
the article refers to a sec filing by tesla(elons company) of december 2020
https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459021004599/tsla-10k_20201231.htm

so the coins sold in 2022 are coins acquired pre december 2020

if you want to knit pick the name. of ethier company or human.. they are the same human decision maker but different name of entity.. but its all talking about the same stash of coin.

coins purchased pre december 2020 and sold early-mid 2022

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 20, 2022, 03:42:04 PM

They bought around February - March 2021 so 30-50k which means they sold at a loss adding power to the April - May crash.

This should be a lesson to those of you who want to invest in companies like Tesla. These moves show that they aren't run by geniuses but normal people who buy at the top and then panic sell at the bottom. They don't care about bitcoin, decentralization, changing the world. They also don't care about the environment. What Musk did pumping and dumping bitcoin and saying that it's bad for the environment was a low level scam you'd expect from a street peddler, not a CEO of a big company.

Correct, it seems very odd to me the kind of treatment that Elon receives, he's just another owner of a company, nothing more nothing less, and yet a great deal of people treat him as a genius that can do no wrong and that has all the answers.

Basically there is a cult of personality around him, similarly to what happened with Steve Jobs, and that is a mistake, he's a human and as such he has some virtues some defects and he makes mistakes, and the fact that most likely he sold for a loss and he is unable to see the potential in bitcoin is something which will eventually come down to haunt him.

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If you compare the selling price with ATH then they sold at loss. But likely they aren't on the loss of average price. They have started buying Bitcoin at a low price most likely average buy price was $31,620. I don't know exactly which point they sold. So don't know if they lost or have some profits. Now I realized why Bitcoin had been dumping so hard. However, Elon made too much from Doge's manipulation. So he doesn't care about Bitcoin loss.

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Quote from: tomahawk9 on July 20, 2022, 03:26:23 PM

did they sell at a loss?

They made a financial decision that their team must have reasons to be ok for the company. Tesla is a big company and decisions such like this are usually not made by one man as people usually think Elon musk, so we can't say they sold at a loss and we can say the made some gains either, Tesla knows better.

Topic: Tesla: "We have converted approximately 75% of our BTC into fiat currency" (Read 885 times)