Topic: TGBEX, Limited Edition Physical Bitcoins - page 2. (Read 5665 times)

Silver and gold raise tax issues in most countries, so unlikely, though we are working on a range of lwoer denomination coins

Will be interested if you decide to bring out lower denomination coins, ideally made of silver

need to work on a lot of things (including finger in photo!), but thanks again for support in UK and beyond

May be interested in buying a few but price seems quite high.
Also, may be able to help with a few ways of spicing up the market for these precious coins
Drop me a PM

Glad you like them and need all the support in UK we can get

Issue with getting specially designed metallic holograms is the cutting is a nightmare- like the idea of a 1st edition glitch though!

Getting tidier as we practice and have something ordered that will hopefully solve issue.

Just collected a couple of silver 1's from the local sorting office. All in all, nice coins. Happy to support a UK based seller.

As halo said above, the holo window is a bit on the large side. Even with the full key visible, it didnt need to be as big as it is.

Also holo itself may be slightly too big for the coin, as it partially covers some of the pressed design (or not quite big enough if it was meant to cover it all). Could just be a placement / centering thing. (or perhaps the standard 'series 1 error' ...  )

Look forward to seeing how the range develops. Good luck.

Appreciate the advice

As you say there are no 'established' players in the market anymore, but more importantly there has never been a physical bitcoin manufacturer with proper controls and procedures to safeguard keys

This is why we believe our coins are worth more- they have been checked, plus they are high quality, individually numbered, come with a signed certificate, corresponding QR code to allow owner to verify balance, booklet explaining the coin and how to redeem and a presentation box (the coins still retail for less than many other physical bitcoins available)- we also have to cover staff costs and engraving machinery costs

We are not doing this out of a bedroom or garage...(and we have not used cheapest suppliers, to ensure quality)

Anyone offering coins available for second hand trade could/ will be shut down (against laws in most countries), but I wouldn't buy a loaded second hand physical bitcoin from anyone (if our coins are individually numbered, then surely they are the most verifiable/ suited to second hand trade, but again we cannot condone or promote this)

Our coins are certainly the hardest physical bitcoins to copy (and as each uniquely numbered, more noticeable) and we are not reliant on 'paper and glue' solutions which surely might make private keys unreadable 10-20 years from now?

We believe our coins are more secure than any others out there for a number of reasons (mainly because we spent a long time thinking about problems and what could be done to rectify them).

Had a few orders already and thanks to those that have PM'd me, which I will sort out (our plan is to launch in UK over coming months, then expand to other countries if it all goes well).

Ok, that's all very well but you didn't answer the question, what makes your coin worth so much more than the well established players in the market? Casascius coin production ceased over a year ago because the US government contacted the manufacturer and asked them to stop. Casascius coins are perfectly secure, although all coins have their weaknesses. Your coin can apparently be x-rayed to reveal the engraving.

Nobody called physical bitcoins novelty items except you and they are a big investment for most people. I'll bet the majority of customers don't care how long it took you to get to market, they either like the product or not. When you start talking about needing identification and government regulations you'll put off buyers. These are items that are going to be traded and collected, so neglect the resale market at your peril. Suggest you offer discounts to at least the first few buyers, should you find any.

Design is ok, will say the metal color looks quite murky. Take photos that don't leave a shadow on the coin.

OREO! Yum! 

We should be able to verify ownership of a particular coin upon request from owner, but cannot support a resale market, as if the key/ coins were compromised, we might be held responsible.

We can only guarantee the coins at the point of sale (and that records of private keys have been destroyed)

Anyone can get run over by a bus, or have a heart attack and do they all have someone they trust to remember all the multiple locations, passwords and safe access? (though agree storage has to be done in a sensible way for any large amounts of bitcoin)

Engraving a tungsten bar might be inefficient for some, but storage of any form of private keys in a safe is a good idea for extra security (if managed).

Honestly, not having a resale market sort of kills the interest in my view.

If it is only for long term storage anyone can create paper wallets that are encrypted and store them in safes in multiple locations. Cost would be much cheaper if that is the only goal.

Or just engrave a tungsten bar with the key and store it in a safe.

But to each their own.

Not sure who is loading the casascius coins at the moment and our coins have the keys engraved and are individually numbered, plus idea of physical bitcoins needs to be taken seriously surely?

Physical bitcoins were always intended to increase adoption (from bitbill paper wallet to casascius and beyond), but am not sure they should only be seen as a 'novelty items'

Taken 2 years to develop packaging, brand, security, procedures etc (and working with local government regulators, local lawyers, other professionals etc to do it properly).

Given the amounts of bitcoin involved we need to be able to collect specific ID documentation requirements at different limits depending on local laws in countries (that we are still figuring out)

Manufacture of coins/ engraving of keys is taken very seriously and so is the security and processes around offline wallet generation/ data retention/ destruction of private keys etc involved

We would love to be able to improve all of the above given funds, but trying to get it off the ground first....

Design was subject to debate for many months, had to be generic and 'global' fitted nature of bitcoin- background is full of bitcoin symbols (don't go there with the 'official' one....), which are visible on coins (which legally might need to be 'tokens' or 'medallions' in some countries..)

Any coin can be copied/ faked, but have to try and make it hard for forgers is the theory (we are not advising second hand ownership of coins), plus each coin and parts of packaging are 'unique'

Before anyone asks, we are obviously working on API to accept bitcoin as payment (at a discount of course) and other payment options...

Agree, dont catch my eye

Always interesting to see new coins hit the market and congratulations for all the effort involved. However, you can pick up a Casascius 0.5 bitcoin which has a more prestige for only £180 (0.70btc) so what makes your coin worth £50 more?

First off, congrats on your company and your new coins.  Some of my thoughts are:

1.  While I agree you wouldnt let your coin out of your sight, the fact that it *MAY* be compromised through imaging equipment could damage the resale market.  I may not be eager to buy someone else's coin in fear they know the key.  Especially a 20 BTC.  That would then make me less apt to purchase these in the first place.

2.  I think the design is ok, but have sort of a video game arcade token look when antiqued.  Not a huge fan of antiquing, but the solid, silver plated, and gold plated polished coins look better to me.

3.  You may wish to consider fewer denominations, or if you are going to make so many, differentiate them more with something else.  Different designs ideally.  The 10 and 20 coins are basically the same coin.  I understand that you save on the tooling for having one design, but it reduces my desire to collect several.

4.  I think your markup is a little high, at least translated to USD:
(2 BTC) 749GBP =  $1225 = $425 premium over 2 BTC
(20 BTC) 5799GBP = $9489 = $1489 premium over 20 BTC

5.  I would think you're going to have a hard time selling 499 of the 20 BTC $10k coins, even at this current low BTC rate.  You may also want smaller mintages overall.  Many sellers lately have been doing mintages of 100-200...maybe 500 on the higher end.

6. I think the window on the hologram is much too large, in order to show the entire public address, and takes away from the hologram aesthetics.

7. I see 7 denominations mentioned and 6 coins show on your website.

8. In order to make your product be available worldwide, consider selling them unfunded or enforce buyer funded.  Otherwise, you may have a hard time selling some of the higher denominations to only UK.  Unless resellers can sell them instead internationally.


For what its worth, I would buy one of your coins, but just giving advice, if its of any value.  Thanks

Unless the hologram is made out of heavy elements, its nothing to an x-ray.  So a med student could do it if the weaker stuff can't.  Because you manipulated the surface of the metal, it will show up using x-ray, there is no way around that with just a sticker in the way.

You have a good point (and we have discussed trying to X-ray coins using simple imaging and MRI machines to test this), however owning bitcoins is about taking responsibility - as long as an owner keeps it as safe as they would a gold bar, or a bank PIN number, then private key should remain valid (we would certainly not describe the holographic sticker as 'tamperproof')

We have obviously looked at the way casascius coins were 'hacked' by removing/ replacing stickers, though it would require leaving someone unattended for a while with access to coin, which we advise owners not to do

We are not selling unloaded coins, nor will we provide replacement holographic stickers, so we will try and minimise connected risks

Am pretty sure the holographic stickers are of sufficient quality/ thickness that the private keys cannot be read by cheap imaging equipment, but will try and test this and let you know results….

Disclaimer to say 'don't let anyone carrying an x-ray machine examine your coin', seems a little unnecessary though?

Can't you just x-ray the coin to see the code since you etched it into the metal?  I'm pretty sure you can see the private key under the hologram with cheap imaging equipment like what they use at pawn shops to see if something is fake.  I would not trust this.

yes, prices on website, but only available for sale in UK at the moment (speaking to a few potential resellers elsewhere)