The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade - page 2.

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 03:59:48 PM

Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 30, 2011, 03:53:20 PM

Yes, what you've described is fractional-reserve banking. I'm aware of how the system works. I'm asking you what is your proposal for an alternative. Even Islamic banking, which prohibits profit from interest, has aspects of fractional-reserve banking. So I ask again, can you provide an example of a current successful economy/country that does not employ fractional-reserve banking?

Please don't construe this is an attack. To my knowledge there are none but I recognize the fact that I can (and often times am) wrong. What I see is a system that has been corrupted and needs to be repaired. I don't necessarily see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sorry, I took a while with my last post which wasn't in response to your post

However, in response to your question - I don't know of one. To find one you would need to find a (successful) economic system that isnt tainted by the UK banking monopolists. And last time I looked, there wasn't a corner of the globe thats free of their tentacles. In other words, if there was a viable alternative its since been 'colonised' & corrupted.

Ah, sorry I thought you were responding to me.

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: kloinko1n on July 30, 2011, 03:56:51 PM

Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 30, 2011, 03:02:12 PM

Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 02:48:55 PM

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though? Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative. Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?

'Fractional Reserve Banking' isn't synonymous with 'Federal Reserve Banking', although it abbreviates the same.
The 'state', be it federal or not, is quite able to do the fractional banking all by herself and earn a lot of money in the process, which can be used for useful public works, instead of building up debts with private banks.
In fact, the American Constitution gives 'the congress' (i.e. NOT the private Federal Reserve) the sole right to create money.

Okay now we're getting somewhere. Let me first just say, if you look at Oldminer's four step process, the last step (#4) is fractional-reserve banking.

The Federal Reserve is for lack of a better word, a cartel of banks. I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress? Let me know if I'm hot or cold here. I'm all for more controls over the Fed, as I mentioned in my previous post, the system is in disarray and needs to be repaired. I just don't necessarily believe we need to scrub the whole model and start over.

Oldminer

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Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 30, 2011, 03:53:20 PM

Yes, what you've described is fractional-reserve banking. I'm aware of how the system works. I'm asking you what is your proposal for an alternative. Even Islamic banking, which prohibits profit from interest, has aspects of fractional-reserve banking. So I ask again, can you provide an example of a current successful economy/country that does not employ fractional-reserve banking?

Please don't construe this is an attack. To my knowledge there are none but I recognize the fact that I can (and often times am) wrong. What I see is a system that has been corrupted and needs to be repaired. I don't necessarily see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sorry, I took a while with my last post which wasn't in response to your post

However, in response to your question - I don't know of one. To find one you would need to find a (successful) economic system that isnt tainted by the UK banking monopolists. And last time I looked, there wasn't a corner of the globe thats free of their tentacles. In other words, if there was a viable alternative its since been 'colonised' & corrupted.

kloinko1n

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Quote from: CurbsideProphet on July 30, 2011, 03:02:12 PM

Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 02:48:55 PM

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though? Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative. Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?

'Fractional Reserve Banking' isn't synonymous with 'Federal Reserve Banking', although it abbreviates the same.
The 'state', be it federal or not, is quite able to do the fractional banking all by herself and earn a lot of money in the process, which can be used for useful public works, instead of building up debts with private banks.
In fact, the American Constitution gives 'the congress' (i.e. NOT the private Federal Reserve) the sole right to create money.

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 03:28:05 PM

The Federal Reserve creates money out of nothing. It is a four step process:

1. The Federal Open Market Committee approves the purchase of United States Bonds.
2. The bonds are purchased by the Federal Reserve.
3. The Federal Reserve pays for these bonds with electronic credits to the seller's bank, these credits are based on nothing.
4. The banks use these deposits as reserves. They can loan out over ten times the amount of their reserves to new borrowers, all at interest.

It's a house of cards..

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm

Yes, what you've described is fractional-reserve banking. I'm aware of how the system works. I'm asking you what is your proposal for an alternative. Even Islamic banking, which prohibits profit from interest, has aspects of fractional-reserve banking. So I ask again, can you provide an example of a current successful economy/country that does not employ fractional-reserve banking?

Please don't construe this is an attack. To my knowledge there are none but I recognize the fact that I can (and often times am) wrong. What I see is a system that has been corrupted and needs to be repaired. I don't necessarily see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Oldminer

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The Federal Reserve creates money out of nothing. It is a four step process:

1. The Federal Open Market Committee approves the purchase of United States Bonds.
2. The bonds are purchased by the Federal Reserve.
3. The Federal Reserve pays for these bonds with electronic credits to the seller's bank, these credits are based on nothing.
4. The banks use these deposits as reserves. They can loan out over ten times the amount of their reserves to new borrowers, all at interest.

It's a house of cards..

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 02:48:55 PM

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though? Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative. Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?

Seraphim401

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Live Long and Prosper

Quote from: Oldminer on July 30, 2011, 02:48:55 PM

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

Nice to be on a forum where people understand that.I myself woke up that fact only about a year ago.

Oldminer

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America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

bitrebel

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The US has already defaulted.

I second that.

Ron Paul is one of the ones saying this.

We have been bankrupt since 1933, so what does one more default matter?

Does anyone have a deckchair that can fly overboard or sink?
Now is the time you may want to paint it, polish it, decorate it, and nail it down.

Bitcoin Swami

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Quote from: hugolp on July 30, 2011, 08:13:23 AM

The rating agencies are regulated by the USA government. The USA government will never loose the AAA rating by these agencies.

Yes it seems these agencies were the same ones giving AAA ratings to home loans when they were crap.

Palmdetroit

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PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Quote from: The_JMiner on July 30, 2011, 09:23:15 AM

It depends on what type of agreement is reached.

A) No agreement, then highly likely. The republicans would love for some shit to happen and blame Obama. (2012 elections hello....)

B) Debt ceiling is raised but only enough for 6 months. Still likely that we could lose our triple A

C) Debt ceiling is raided substantially. No we do not lose our triple A.

AAA will be lost doing C as well, just FYI - And those who think we should do another 2.5 trill.. that's 25k per every person in this country... and it will be all gone right after next years elections,... if it even lasts that long

1million+ liability for every taxpayer as of today... no possible solution unless the dollar loses 90% of value

for the all the numbers that show just how sad it's become: image courtesy of:
http://usdebtclock.org/index.html

Seraphim401

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Live Long and Prosper

I think the U.S. will lose it for while,but get it back again.
Seems like the real powers of this world wants weaken every strong country,so no one can stand in way of world government.
In their sick twisted minds I bet they think they are creating some kind of power equilibrium.
What do you think the hype about China is all about?Every time those fake commies "create" some kind of weapon it's hyped by the media (Refurbished Russian aircraft carrier,stealth bomber that Clinton sold to them etc...).Never again will the world know a power like the USA.

foggyb

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Quote from: The_JMiner on July 30, 2011, 09:23:15 AM

It depends on what type of agreement is reached.

A) No agreement, then highly likely. The republicans would love for some shit to happen and blame Obama. (2012 elections hello....)

The democrats would love for some shit to happen and ~~blame~~ have Obama ride to the rescue. (2012 elections hello....)

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: The_JMiner on July 30, 2011, 09:23:15 AM

It depends on what type of agreement is reached.

A) No agreement, then highly likely. The republicans would love for some shit to happen and blame Obama. (2012 elections hello....)

B) Debt ceiling is raised but only enough for 6 months. Still likely that we could lose our triple A

C) Debt ceiling is raided substantially. No we do not lose our triple A.

"C) Debt ceiling is raised substantially. No we do not lose our triple A."

This would be my favorite option. If we went from an AAA rating to an AA, I would probably start drinking again.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: kiba on July 30, 2011, 08:55:24 AM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on July 30, 2011, 07:18:44 AM

I personally find that fact outrageous. No one should be able to make a tenfold, or more, profit on any investment--unless its for the betterment of the overall global community (had you there for a second).

Why are you making moral judgement on how much profit a person should be able to make?

I wasn't. The statement you're referring to was obviously tongue-in-cheek. I even clarified that fact by placing the phrase "had you there for a second" in parentheses knowing that if I didn't, I may end up getting a comment such as yours. I was trying to cover all bases, but still got called out. The next time I'm at bat, I promise to do better.

BTW, I harvest and buy reclaimed barn wood for a living. I buy at pennies on the dollar and make 400-1,000+ percent profit on each transaction. Therefore, I have no qualms in making as much profit as possible, and pass no moral judgement on others who do.

Thank you kindly, kiba, for the comment, and please don't take my comment towards you personal.

Bitcoin: Now Accepted at Quark's Bar, Grill, Gaming House and Holosuite Arcade

The_JMiner

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It depends on what type of agreement is reached.

A) No agreement, then highly likely. The republicans would love for some shit to happen and blame Obama. (2012 elections hello....)

B) Debt ceiling is raised but only enough for 6 months. Still likely that we could lose our triple A

C) Debt ceiling is raided substantially. No we do not lose our triple A.

kiba

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on July 30, 2011, 07:18:44 AM

I personally find that fact outrageous. No one should be able to make a tenfold, or more, profit on any investment--unless its for the betterment of the overall global community (had you there for a second).

Why are you making moral judgement on how much profit a person should be able to make?

westkybitcoins

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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

Quote from: static on July 30, 2011, 08:04:06 AM

the u.s. has already defaulted.

Multiple times, no less.

hugolp

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Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol

The rating agencies are regulated by the USA government. The USA government will never loose the AAA rating by these agencies.

Topic: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade - page 2. (Read 4490 times)