The ignorance in this thread is appalling. I am not too politically vocal but this requires response.
The world is changing, American hegemony is stalling while other powers are growing. More and more countries are turning to alternative solutions that are not under 'murican control. As if this is not dangerous enough to the "Full Spectrum Dominance" doctrine, European "allies" of the U.S are beginning to lean towards the "Multi Polar Ideal".
Obama sees this in ways you plebs can't. He is the one who goes to meetings and has phone conversations with other leaders and he feels the cold shoulder. He sees his ideas and suggestions getting sidelined in favour of others', he's the one who gets briefs that forecast the shrinking of American influence in the world and why it is happening.
Already on a military front we see Eastern nations coming together to form their own mutual defense pacts, increasing cooperation between India , Russia and China to name a few. On a Financial front we see more cooperation, from Brics, the new trade agreements in Africa , increasing reliance on China by some of the worlds economic powerhouses. Let's not forget the egg on the American leadership's faces over the AIIB after their "partners" jumped ship and lined up to join.
If there is a man that deserves respect it's Obama, right now he is trying to save his country from the militaristic hawks, from the ill advised narrow minded members of the political elite who do not see the big picture. If the Americans scuttle this agreement , it will not be seen as being in the world's best interest, it will be seen as Americans trying to impose their will on others and the other powers in these negotiations will not follow suit.
Americans talk about bombing Iran.....can you afford another war in the east? Your economy is barely afloat and they have to keep making course corrections along the way....will you be able to sustain a war effort again? And don't just think that it is as simple as dropping a few bombs and destroying a few facilities...Iran will respond, in whatever means are available to them, what if they do have the bomb...hell, even just a dirty bomb. The consequences of war are unknown in scope but it is clear that it will just entail suffering for the innocent.
I am not siding with Iran, i am siding with peace, hell if they break the conditions of the agreement I'll sign any and every letter to Downing supporting reinstatement of sanctions plus bonus additions. You speak of what you Americans are losing in this deal....let's talk about your gains.
In one deal you guys have gained back a major portion of your legitimacy on the global podium that you lost in your stupid Afgan and Iraq wars, you can now start repairing the damage of your actions in Libya and your missteps in Ukraine. (Remember being left out of the second agreement?)
For those who still think sanctions are the best idea....do you think they will work without the support of the rest of us. You may be the largest economy, but you are still just one country, without our cooperation your sanctions will become meaningless. Iran is not Cuba, it's very far away in it's own region with different friends and enemies, different needs and wants...U.S sanctions alone would only serve to alienate your peoples further, much as they have done with every other nation you have sanctioned arbitrarily.
Topic: The 8 Most Important Things to Know About the Iran Nuclear Deal (Read 700 times)
But for reasons that I cannot yet fathom, the GOP handed Obama all that he wanted with the "Corker-Cardin Bill".
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2015/04/corker-cardin-iran-bill-is-unconstitutional
Essentially, instead of such a treaty needing a 2/3rds Senate majority to be adopted, it is now Law unless the Senate can rally a super-majority of 67 to override a POTUS signature. Meaning all it takes now is POTUS and 34 Senators to make such law.
This was heralded as a mistake by many Conservatives, and a violation of the Constitution, when passed by the Senate. I cannot make sense of it from a GOP point of view. But they did it !! Was this to set up the Dems in 2016 ? 12 Dem Senators will be able to vote against Obama on this, preserving some notion of being pro-Israel, yet still have it be law. Hard to find a favorable political angle for what the GOP did. They gave Obama a blank check on this deal.
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2015/04/corker-cardin-iran-bill-is-unconstitutional
Essentially, instead of such a treaty needing a 2/3rds Senate majority to be adopted, it is now Law unless the Senate can rally a super-majority of 67 to override a POTUS signature. Meaning all it takes now is POTUS and 34 Senators to make such law.
This was heralded as a mistake by many Conservatives, and a violation of the Constitution, when passed by the Senate. I cannot make sense of it from a GOP point of view. But they did it !! Was this to set up the Dems in 2016 ? 12 Dem Senators will be able to vote against Obama on this, preserving some notion of being pro-Israel, yet still have it be law. Hard to find a favorable political angle for what the GOP did. They gave Obama a blank check on this deal.
Damn Obama for wanting diplomancy to work, as a way to keep from destabilizing the middle east even worse, and damn him for wanting to not lose American lives again.
Is giving Iran hundreds of billons of dollars to spread around to their clients (like Bashar Assad) and removing missile and arms selling sanctions your idea of stabilization?
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Those americans who want to go to war, will not serve, for they want others, to do the dying, so they can watch it with a beer in their hand, as they would watch the fireworks display on the 4th of July.
Stop with the absurd straw man fantasies.
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The thing is, most americans have been propagandized, and are too damned stupid to even see it.
A few years ago, several intel agencies, over 10 of them, looked hard at Iran and whether they were still working on a nuke. To the dismay of the neocons the conclusion was, Iran was not doing it. And had stopped years ago. But these pro war americans do not know of this intel study. For they are ignorant and the propaganda they consume makes damned sure the conclusion of those intel groups are not mentioned.
A few years ago, several intel agencies, over 10 of them, looked hard at Iran and whether they were still working on a nuke. To the dismay of the neocons the conclusion was, Iran was not doing it. And had stopped years ago. But these pro war americans do not know of this intel study. For they are ignorant and the propaganda they consume makes damned sure the conclusion of those intel groups are not mentioned.
But thank you for mentioning it. Why have we just gifted one of the world's two or three most dangerous rogue states with vast riches and access to WMD's now for nothing, if they are not building a bomb?
If we know Iran had no intention of making their bomb why the years of negotiations? Why the elaborate charade?
Or could it be you are absolutely wrong?
Either these intelligence agencies ALL happen to be absolutely wrong, or this international negotiating conglomerate of world powers (led by the US) have willingly been hoaxed and given in to blackmail all to the absolute benefit of the theocratic crazies in Tehran. Which is it?
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Propagandized Americans are idiots, and we are surrounded by them. And you just cannot fix stupid, which is a shame. It is dangerous to so much human life to be stupid. Stupidity kills, but not the ones sitting at home being entertained by war.
It never fails that the most uninformed are the most rudely dismissive of others. It's an internet axiom that never fails.
Since Obama decided to go it alone and ram his full capitulation to Tehran down the American people's throats, let's see what the peasants he is ignoring think about the regime whose interests he is putting before their own:
Just 51 percent of those interviewed said the U.S. should have diplomatic relations with Iran while 45 percent said it shouldn’t. At the same time, 77 percent of those interviewed said the harsh U.S. and international economic sanctions against Iran should be preserved at current levels or even increased.
Only 12 percent of those interviewed thought sanctions should be decreased and seven percent said they should be eliminated altogether.
The public’s wariness and distrust of dating back to the 1979 Iranian revolution and U.S. hostage crisis matches the reception the nuclear agreement has received on Capitol Hill where most Republicans and some Democrats say they fear Obama has conceded too much to a country that has fomented terrorist activities throughout the Middle East and has repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.
Fifty-six percent of Americans consider Iran to be an enemy, according to the poll conducted last Thursday through Monday, while an additional 31 percent consider Iran to be unfriendly but not an enemy. More than 70 percent of Republicans, half of all independents and 45 percent of Democrats described Iran as the enemy.
...........Read More..........
There's that and a Monmouth University poll that finds a majority of Americans don't trust Tehran at all, and why should they?
We're talking about a regime that has American blood on its hands, supports terrorist groups and has a long history of stonewalling and deceiving the international community and the IAEA about the dimensions of its nuclear program.
Of course, the American people's distrust in both understandable and expected, which brings us back to the question why the megalomaniac in the White House decided to go around the American people and their representatives in Washington and subject his immoral deal to the treaty process.
It's obvious that he knew that his deal would get shot down, but he went ahead with it anyway. As has been the case with ObamaCare: Screw the American people. What they want doesn't matter.
One can't help but notice the resemblance between Obama and the autocrats he is appeasing in Iran. They both possess and display an arrogant contempt and disregard for the people in their respective countries.
That's what you get when you empower ideologues. Now that the damage is done, are we going to learn our lesson?
Just 51 percent of those interviewed said the U.S. should have diplomatic relations with Iran while 45 percent said it shouldn’t. At the same time, 77 percent of those interviewed said the harsh U.S. and international economic sanctions against Iran should be preserved at current levels or even increased.
Only 12 percent of those interviewed thought sanctions should be decreased and seven percent said they should be eliminated altogether.
The public’s wariness and distrust of dating back to the 1979 Iranian revolution and U.S. hostage crisis matches the reception the nuclear agreement has received on Capitol Hill where most Republicans and some Democrats say they fear Obama has conceded too much to a country that has fomented terrorist activities throughout the Middle East and has repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.
Fifty-six percent of Americans consider Iran to be an enemy, according to the poll conducted last Thursday through Monday, while an additional 31 percent consider Iran to be unfriendly but not an enemy. More than 70 percent of Republicans, half of all independents and 45 percent of Democrats described Iran as the enemy.
...........Read More..........
There's that and a Monmouth University poll that finds a majority of Americans don't trust Tehran at all, and why should they?
We're talking about a regime that has American blood on its hands, supports terrorist groups and has a long history of stonewalling and deceiving the international community and the IAEA about the dimensions of its nuclear program.
Of course, the American people's distrust in both understandable and expected, which brings us back to the question why the megalomaniac in the White House decided to go around the American people and their representatives in Washington and subject his immoral deal to the treaty process.
It's obvious that he knew that his deal would get shot down, but he went ahead with it anyway. As has been the case with ObamaCare: Screw the American people. What they want doesn't matter.
One can't help but notice the resemblance between Obama and the autocrats he is appeasing in Iran. They both possess and display an arrogant contempt and disregard for the people in their respective countries.
That's what you get when you empower ideologues. Now that the damage is done, are we going to learn our lesson?
Damn Obama for wanting diplomancy to work, as a way to keep from destabilizing the middle east even worse, and damn him for wanting to not lose American lives again.
Those americans who want to go to war, will not serve, for they want others, to do the dying, so they can watch it with a beer in their hand, as they would watch the fireworks display on the 4th of July.
The thing is, most americans have been propagandized, and are too damned stupid to even see it.
A few years ago, several intel agencies, over 10 of them, looked hard at Iran and whether they were still working on a nuke. To the dismay of the neocons the conclusion was, Iran was not doing it. And had stopped years ago. But these pro war americans do not know of this intel study. For they are ignorant and the propaganda they consume makes damned sure the conclusion of those intel groups are not mentioned.
Propagandized americans are idiots, and we are surrounded by them. And you just cannot fix stupid, which is a shame. It is dangerous to so much human life to be stupid. Stupidity kills, but not the ones sitting at home being entertained by war.
Obviously the 6 countries who took part in the negotiations agree with him. And they are the important countries.
You mean the same countries that accused Kerry of actually negotiating FOR Iran because he was offering up too much?
And no, the important countries, or at least the ones with the most immediate threat, is Israel and the other ME countries.
And why does Iran need ICBM's if they're not building nukes?
Isn't Obama the liar of the year, you can't believe one word he says. Sick.
He claims a fatwa against building nuclear weapons from Ayatollah Khomeini which doesn't exist.
Our intelligence says Iran wasn't building a bomb so why the agreement? Are Valerie Jarrett (born in Iran) and Barry Obama helping their Shiite pals?
Did not Obama said, 99% of all the World's people agree with him?
Yeah the same guys that were responsible for Obama's 'red line' and were going to join our coalition when it was crossed...
most americans can't locate iran on a map
Isn't Obama the liar of the year, you can't believe one word he says. Sick.
It's amazing, isn't it? He's a raging sociopath - he'll lie about anything and everything till the day his his forked-tongue eats dirt.
I may not be a Chris Christie fan, but I'll give him credit for telling Obama to stop lying to the American people. Enough is enough.
Did not Obama said, 99% of all the World's people agree with him?
Yes BUT as we all know he's a lying pos. Remember........... Obamacare Architect: Yeah, We Lied to The "Stupid" American People to Get It Passed. Remember those "stupid" are the idiots that voted for him. IMHO they should never vote again because they are mental deficient.
There's that and a Monmouth University poll that finds a majority of Americans don't trust Tehran at all, and why should they?
We're talking about a regime that has American blood on its hands, supports terrorist groups and has a long history of stonewalling and deceiving the international community and the IAEA about the dimensions of its nuclear program.
Of course, the American people's distrust in both understandable and expected, which brings us back to the question why the megalomaniac in the White House decided to go around the American people and their representatives in Washington and subject his immoral deal to the treaty process.
It's obvious that he knew that his deal would get shot down, but he went ahead with it anyway. As has been the case with ObamaCare: Screw the American people. What they want doesn't matter.
One can't help but notice the resemblance between Obama and the autocrats he is appeasing in Iran. They both possess and display an arrogant contempt and disregard for the people in their respective countries.
That's what you get when you empower ideologues. Now that the damage is done, are we going to learn our lesson?
We're talking about a regime that has American blood on its hands, supports terrorist groups and has a long history of stonewalling and deceiving the international community and the IAEA about the dimensions of its nuclear program.
Of course, the American people's distrust in both understandable and expected, which brings us back to the question why the megalomaniac in the White House decided to go around the American people and their representatives in Washington and subject his immoral deal to the treaty process.
It's obvious that he knew that his deal would get shot down, but he went ahead with it anyway. As has been the case with ObamaCare: Screw the American people. What they want doesn't matter.
One can't help but notice the resemblance between Obama and the autocrats he is appeasing in Iran. They both possess and display an arrogant contempt and disregard for the people in their respective countries.
That's what you get when you empower ideologues. Now that the damage is done, are we going to learn our lesson?
Isn't Obama the liar of the year, you can't believe one word he says. Sick.
Obviously the 6 countries who took part in the negotiations agree with him. And they are the important countries.
Nonsense, my learned friend. The people of these countries did not agree with Obama. United States people did not agree with Obama. An idiot lead the coalition to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. The deal sucks and that's why Iran loves it.
Three points:
This is a great deal for the US and Europe, the best possible avenue for dealing with Iran.
Obama will veto any action taken by Congress to nullify the deal, and everyone agrees no override is feasible.
Due to the 22d amendment, Obama isn't running for a 3d term.
This is a great deal for the US and Europe, the best possible avenue for dealing with Iran.
Obama will veto any action taken by Congress to nullify the deal, and everyone agrees no override is feasible.
Due to the 22d amendment, Obama isn't running for a 3d term.
77% of Americans are right - the best way to deal with Iran is to keep the bans and sanctions in place.
The deal is worthless given the enormous holes in the inspection regime, and it is immoral because:
1) It will provide the Iranian government with more resources to double-down on the oppression of its citizens at home and the export of conflict and terrorism abroad
2) It destroys any incentive on the part of the Sunni Arab states to eliminate Caliph Ibrahim's Islamic State death cult
3) It will lead to a nuclear arms race in the Middle East
There are better avenues of dealing with Iran than repeating Chamberlain's folly in Munich.
Three points:
This is a great deal for the US and Europe, the best possible avenue for dealing with Iran.
Obama will veto any action taken by Congress to nullify the deal, and everyone agrees no override is feasible.
Due to the 22d amendment, Obama isn't running for a 3d term.
This is a great deal for the US and Europe, the best possible avenue for dealing with Iran.
Obama will veto any action taken by Congress to nullify the deal, and everyone agrees no override is feasible.
Due to the 22d amendment, Obama isn't running for a 3d term.
Obviously the 6 countries who took part in the negotiations agree with him. And they are the important countries.
They hardly comprise 99% of the world (A) and (B)guess who has the most to gain financially by opening up Iranian markets for arms and missiles?
Surprise! China and Russia (who has a head start http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/17/politics/iran-obama-russia-weapons-sale/).
Money always shouts the loudest when deciding what's best for the world. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/03/us-iran-nuclear-economy-idUSKBN0MU0QP20150403
Obama's goal here wasn't to protect America or Israel or even the ME is general from terrorists, it was to make a deal with them, period. Iran get's a huge financial bump and many other bennies while we, or more specifically, Obama, gets one thing, a "deal". A horrible deal, a dangerously egregious deal, but a deal. He could give two twits if American's agree with him or even if Congress does, which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone since he seldom does. He's playing by his rules right now and he's far from finished working on his "to do" list. It won't be a fun ride for a lot of folks, but.
And he got not one hostage released that have been there for years. He should have demanded that before removing any sanctions. If they were traitors to the U.S. he would have got them out.
Obama's goal here wasn't to protect America or Israel or even the ME is general from terrorists, it was to make a deal with them, period. Iran get's a huge financial bump and many other bennies while we, or more specifically, Obama, gets one thing, a "deal". A horrible deal, a dangerously egregious deal, but a deal. He could give two twits if American's agree with him or even if Congress does, which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone since he seldom does. He's playing by his rules right now and he's far from finished working on his "to do" list. It won't be a fun ride for a lot of folks, but.
Let's be honest. Any deal that gives the thugs in Tehran more money to oppress its citizens at home and export war and terrorism abroad is an immoral deal.
Meanwhile, Obama tells his bleating and babbling followers that this is a step towards "a more hopeful world". It's the new version of "peace in our time" and people are going to get killed for it just the same.
Did not Obama said, 99% of all the World's people agree with him?
Obviously the 6 countries who took part in the negotiations agree with him. And they are the important countries.
Obama's goal here wasn't to protect America or Israel or even the ME is general from terrorists, it was to make a deal with them, period. Iran get's a huge financial bump and many other bennies while we, or more specifically, Obama, gets one thing, a "deal". A horrible deal, a dangerously egregious deal, but a deal. He could give two twits if American's agree with him or even if Congress does, which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone since he seldom does. He's playing by his rules right now and he's far from finished working on his "to do" list. It won't be a fun ride for a lot of folks, but.
Did not Obama said, 99% of all the World's people agree with him?
And yet, 77% of Americans want the existing sanctions preserved or strengthened.
Which brings us back to the BS that Obama was shoveling about options. It was either his full-on capitulation to his Supreme Leader in Tehran or war.
What he disingenuously failed to mention was the other option that 77% of Americans support.
So, why would Obama defy the will of the American people to serve the interests of their self-sworn enemies in Tehran?
That is the admiration and respect that he's earned from the scumbags he is appeasing. Some people never learn, even when History has a teachable moment staring them right in the face.
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