The ALT currency FTC CNC, collaspsing BTC?

Melbustus

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 03, 2013, 04:41:22 PM

Yes I think that innovation is an important factor for alt-coins, but that doesn't mean they do not have a place. And most importantly they are no more a pump&dump scheme than BTC already is.
There are some coins with malicious features like pre-mine, taxes or else (Solidcoin, Freicoin, ...) which should be avoided, but other than that they have their place, if only for a short time.

I get the point of things like feathercoin, china coin, ru coin,.. aren't particularly useful if they do not include any new unique featureset. They are often short lived see IXcoin and I0Coin but that doesn't mean they have to.

I may have to think about this more, but I suppose my contention is with your implied assertion that the direct clone alts are identical to bitcoin in terms of their value to humanity (which I'm getting from your statement that "they are no more a pump&dump scheme than BTC already is."). I contend that the first coin to offer a certain featureset adds value to humanity, while the next one with that exact featureset adds so little value that it can be reasonably approximated as adding no value. This is pretty much because the first one to provide the featureset gets the network effect and therefore imparts the value.

There's perhaps an argument for diversification and redundancy, though if coin B is a direct clone of coin A, they'll have exactly the same vulnerabilities....the only "backup" function might be with respect to the people who are developing one versus the other...

Walter Rothbard

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Quote from: Tirapon on May 02, 2013, 07:06:32 PM

We have a situation where people will jump on any new coin because they believe price will go up. As a result, price does go up - its a self fulfilling prophecy. But what will the end result be? Will this effect of dilution/inflation simply continue

Nobody has infinite wealth, so obviously this could not continue without limit. There will be an equilibrium.

markm

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 03, 2013, 04:41:22 PM

They are often short lived see IXcoin and I0Coin but that doesn't mean they have to.

Ixcoin is still humming along just fine, it even is in the merged mining mix at BitParking's merged mining pool and is traded on VIrcurex.

I0coin is still humming along fine too despite having been dropped from BitParking's merged mining pool and only being traded over the counter and in Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Melbustus on May 03, 2013, 04:31:37 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 03, 2013, 03:34:20 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on May 03, 2013, 03:15:48 PM

A fun social experiment might be to do something like the following:

1) Announce the creation of PnDcoin, which is 4x FeatherCoin or something...
2) Announce that the P stands for "Pump" and that the D stands for "Dump".
3) Announce a viable staged marketing plan for the coin, stating very clearly what channels you're going to hit when, etc...
4) Outline a plan of when to sell out to maximize profits.

I'll bet people would still jump in, on the greater-fool reasoning... After all, many of Pirate's "investors" knew that it was a ponzi, but figured they'd just get out before the next guy.

Making the pump-n-dump process and plan as explicit as possible up-front and seeing what kind of activity results would be amusing to watch.

This kind of rhetoric is becoming really tiresome. It applies the same exact way to BTC as it does to its forks. That it was first doesn't mean squat.
The principle remains the same.

Thought experiment: If two coins have exactly the same properties, but one has existed longer and has significantly more adoption, in terms of users, merchants, financial services, etc, which has more utility? This an obvious network effect. I assume you're now going to tell me that the network effect is irrelevant; that's fine, please educate me.

For the record, I think other coins that bring new features to the table (eg, PPCoin, Namecoin) are genuinely interesting and have a place, and perhaps an innovative alt may ultimately dominate. I just see nothing interesting or compelling about coins that are direct forks with some constants changed, either intellectually or from a market perspective.

Yes I think that innovation is an important factor for alt-coins, but that doesn't mean they do not have a place. And most importantly they are no more a pump&dump scheme than BTC already is.
There are some coins with malicious features like pre-mine, taxes or else (Solidcoin, Freicoin, ...) which should be avoided, but other than that they have their place, if only for a short time.

I get the point of things like feathercoin, china coin, ru coin,.. aren't particularly useful if they do not include any new unique featureset. They are often short lived see IXcoin and I0Coin but that doesn't mean they have to.

Melbustus

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Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

Quote from: ElectricMucus on May 03, 2013, 03:34:20 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on May 03, 2013, 03:15:48 PM

A fun social experiment might be to do something like the following:

1) Announce the creation of PnDcoin, which is 4x FeatherCoin or something...
2) Announce that the P stands for "Pump" and that the D stands for "Dump".
3) Announce a viable staged marketing plan for the coin, stating very clearly what channels you're going to hit when, etc...
4) Outline a plan of when to sell out to maximize profits.

I'll bet people would still jump in, on the greater-fool reasoning... After all, many of Pirate's "investors" knew that it was a ponzi, but figured they'd just get out before the next guy.

Making the pump-n-dump process and plan as explicit as possible up-front and seeing what kind of activity results would be amusing to watch.

This kind of rhetoric is becoming really tiresome. It applies the same exact way to BTC as it does to its forks. That it was first doesn't mean squat.
The principle remains the same.

Thought experiment: If two coins have exactly the same properties, but one has existed longer and has significantly more adoption, in terms of users, merchants, financial services, etc, which has more utility? This an obvious network effect. I assume you're now going to tell me that the network effect is irrelevant; that's fine, please educate me.

For the record, I think other coins that bring new features to the table (eg, PPCoin, Namecoin) are genuinely interesting and have a place, and perhaps an innovative alt may ultimately dominate. I just see nothing interesting or compelling about coins that are direct forks with some constants changed, either intellectually or from a market perspective.

juve4v

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Not alts are really killing BTC but the ASICS or better the lack of them being distributed to the masses. The trend you're witnessing with folks jumping on alt-wagons, is the consequensce of one of the facts that the majority of BTC -formed by GPU farmers- is being pushed away by the elitist ASICS owners who rocketed the diff .The people doesn't have much of a choice now! Do you really think if most of gpu farmers would have instant access to asics at decent price would want to waste time/money with power hungry gpus on alt coins?
What do you think is happening to BTC price in short/long term as everyday more and more people are leaving BTC .and become more attracted by new coins that can not be ditched by asics and can turn them profit
This is why Avalon Team decided to start selling chips so that every Joe can afford one asic and happily mine with it, helping the network too.
Ironically, people finding in altcoins now -by gpu farming them- the descentralisation they seem to be lost in BTC. The sooner the accesibility to asics the better for BTC will be, else you might see one/more altcoin -launched or to be launchedt- overtaking BTC .

zdarkazn

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Quote from: Cyberdyne on May 02, 2013, 07:31:14 PM

This phenomenon is only an issue for people who are 100% invested in BTC.

If LTC is taking away 10% of the value of BTC, and FTC is taking away 5% of the value, then just make sure you have 85% in BTC, 10% in LTC and 5% in FTC.
Now your $ wealth doesn't fluctuate so much.

Thanks (:

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: Melbustus on May 03, 2013, 03:15:48 PM

A fun social experiment might be to do something like the following:

1) Announce the creation of PnDcoin, which is 4x FeatherCoin or something...
2) Announce that the P stands for "Pump" and that the D stands for "Dump".
3) Announce a viable staged marketing plan for the coin, stating very clearly what channels you're going to hit when, etc...
4) Outline a plan of when to sell out to maximize profits.

I'll bet people would still jump in, on the greater-fool reasoning... After all, many of Pirate's "investors" knew that it was a ponzi, but figured they'd just get out before the next guy.

Making the pump-n-dump process and plan as explicit as possible up-front and seeing what kind of activity results would be amusing to watch.

This kind of rhetoric is becoming really tiresome. It applies the same exact way to BTC as it does to its forks. That it was first doesn't mean squat.
The principle remains the same.

daytrader420

full member

Activity: 126

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Alt coins collapsing BTC?

No..

Try the panic sell from the 75$ million lawsuit against the largest bitcoin exchanger.

Although I'm a fan of the alt crypto's, they are not valued anywhere near the amount of the 75$mil lawsuit that MtGox was hit with.

Rawr1337

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Litecoin appears to be pegged to Bitcoin prices, with the ratio maintaining a relatively stable rate of exchange. All the currencies will in general rise and fall together, with dilution possible. It could also do the opposite, if more people become enticed with owning the "first cryptocurrency".

Melbustus

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

A fun social experiment might be to do something like the following:

1) Announce the creation of PnDcoin, which is 4x FeatherCoin or something...
2) Announce that the P stands for "Pump" and that the D stands for "Dump".
3) Announce a viable staged marketing plan for the coin, stating very clearly what channels you're going to hit when, etc...
4) Outline a plan of when to sell out to maximize profits.

I'll bet people would still jump in, on the greater-fool reasoning... After all, many of Pirate's "investors" knew that it was a ponzi, but figured they'd just get out before the next guy.

Making the pump-n-dump process and plan as explicit as possible up-front and seeing what kind of activity results would be amusing to watch.

seleme

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Merit: 1028

Duelbits.com

Alts are coming on daily basis now, 2 in last 2 days, and people who were not Bitcoin early adopters are jumping on them massively.

I hate these new alts but can't blame people who are jumping on the train. Some of them made or are going to make thousands (maybe dozens of them) in very short period. I mean that CHN thing is launched already going for 20-25 LTC per 1000, and some people mined 200-300k+ in few first hours. It's extremely profitable.

Melbustus

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Quote from: Tirapon on May 02, 2013, 07:06:32 PM

I was literally just about to start a thread about this. The number of alt-coins being released is just silly. On the one hand I'm concerned that the situation will discredit Bitcoin and open source crypto-currencies in general. On the other, the whole point of it being open source in the first place is that people replicate the software, make changes and improvements, and let the best one win.

We have a situation where people will jump on any new coin because they believe price will go up. As a result, price does go up - its a self fulfilling prophecy. But what will the end result be? Will this effect of dilution/inflation simply continue

It's good that they're coming out so fast. It'll make the alt speculators think twice about what benefits (if any) the various alts might bring to the table; eg, which (if any) have staying power and make sense to hold.

We're in this phase right now where there's a proven 2nd-order market for alt coins, so anyone with a little technical and promotion ability is forking code and launching a new coin while there are still people around who feel like they've missed the BTC boat but haven't yet been burned by an alt crash.

I think specifically once FTC finishes bubbling and then crashing, people will be a little more discerning about actual features and benefits of alts.

Cyberdyne

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This phenomenon is only an issue for people who are 100% invested in BTC.

If LTC is taking away 10% of the value of BTC, and FTC is taking away 5% of the value, then just make sure you have 85% in BTC, 10% in LTC and 5% in FTC.
Now your $ wealth doesn't fluctuate so much.

jubalix

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Quote from: Kazu on May 02, 2013, 07:11:20 PM

Just give the other coins time to hit their peak and then burst. They are the true bubble, and if they suppress BTC's price in the short term, i'm not complaining. I'll be mad though when actual RESELLERS start accepting alt-coins, or gox. Not when a couple of troll exchanges use them as a sort of neo-HYIP.

The only ones I really have any respect for is Litecoin and Terracoin. All the others are Noob Coins. Even litecoin is sort of dumb.

whats going to push it is not just the competency of the coin but the desire to unwind/get hand on million of early BTC...and FTC+CNC have just got hold of over 2 million BTC

jubalix

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Quote from: bitcon on May 02, 2013, 07:10:23 PM

one thing is certian; when bitcoin value drops, litecoin value drops also. litecoin was 4.07 a couple days ago, today it is down to 3.40.

thats to US, though...I am more interested in how the others climb, Millions of BTC out of nothing

Kazu

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Just give the other coins time to hit their peak and then burst. They are the true bubble, and if they suppress BTC's price in the short term, i'm not complaining. I'll be mad though when actual RESELLERS start accepting alt-coins, or gox. Not when a couple of troll exchanges use them as a sort of neo-HYIP.

The only ones I really have any respect for is Litecoin and Terracoin. All the others are Noob Coins. Even litecoin is sort of dumb.

bitcon

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one thing is certian; when bitcoin value drops, litecoin value drops also. litecoin was 4.07 a couple days ago, today it is down to 3.40.

jubalix

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Quote from: Tirapon on May 02, 2013, 07:06:32 PM

I was literally just about to start a thread about this. The number of alt-coins being released is just silly. On the one hand I'm concerned that the situation will discredit Bitcoin and open source crypto-currencies in general. On the other, the whole point of it being open source in the first place is that people replicate the software, make changes and improvements, and let the best one win.

We have a situation where people will jump on any new coin because they believe price will go up. As a result, price does go up - its a self fulfilling prophecy. But what will the end result be? Will this effect of dilution/inflation simply continue

a few fast cpu only coins will win out, btc is to slow...

Tirapon

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I was literally just about to start a thread about this. The number of alt-coins being released is just silly. On the one hand I'm concerned that the situation will discredit Bitcoin and open source crypto-currencies in general. On the other, the whole point of it being open source in the first place is that people replicate the software, make changes and improvements, and let the best one win.

We have a situation where people will jump on any new coin because they believe price will go up. As a result, price does go up - its a self fulfilling prophecy. But what will the end result be? Will this effect of dilution/inflation simply continue

Topic: The ALT currency FTC CNC, collaspsing BTC? (Read 3779 times)