The America and the Crypto - Getting on wrong foot

Flexystar

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Quote from: tread93 on April 29, 2023, 10:20:45 AM

I mean honestly how many times has crypto or bitcoin been declared dead in general? Its completely ridiculous to say that it is completely dead in the US. Of course there is going to be a crack down on regulatory and a framework will be in place, as it has been in place on any asset class in the world. There has to be some regulatory framework. I think ultimately the CBDC will be a very large part of this framework and operate as the new USD eventually and I rue the day this happens. Its happening in Asia right before our very eyes with China and South Korea already paying employees in the Government CBDC Yuan and Russia is going to issue their CBDC before the end of 2023 apparently. BRICS will follow suit and before you know it every government in the world will start running their own CBDC train. I imagine that it could even be nearly implemented, in theory (at least the CBDC trials) by the time Bitcoin Halves, perhaps.

It has been declared dead many times no wonder but have you ever tried to compare the situation during those dead statement and the current dead statement? There is vast difference and we have all the examples of failed infrastructure and strictest regulations within USA. Tell me why would country like America won’t accept decentralised infra if they have so many advances economically. World mimics the America when it comes to brands, styling, infra, safety and you name it.

It could have easily set the classic example to the other half but instead of that they are messing with crypto in wrong way possible.

They literally failed two banks in Short period of time. They aggravated the shifting of biggest tax payers in exchangers category and losing it more in the lawsuits.

Now imagine how bad it is right now?

humanvelocity

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It’s very obvious that any government would be against any cryptocurrency/decentralised currencies in general and I don’t blame them. One of the reasons being funding crime which the government can’t track or control which would eventually effect their own country and another being Majority of people who use cryptocurrencies and make profit from it never pay taxes. So how do you expect your country to grow if everyone stop contributing to their country by not paying any taxes? Reasons such as these might really impact a country severely when done in big scale. Hence this why I’m not surprised that the government of any country would not be very supportive of cryptocurrencies.

FUCKBSVFUCK

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In my opinion, there is no need to go all in on the subject of the US government's decision to ban cryptocurrency in the United States. It is a matter of national security and economic stability. The US government has the power to do whatever they want with cryptocurrencies, and that is why they are trying to make it legal in their country.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Flexystar on April 25, 2023, 08:13:56 AM

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My thought is, US legislation is brutally scared about bitcoin. They definitely thinking it could misplaced the American Dollar position from the market and give rise to another era of economics. They might be thinking they are losing the dollar value and it's world domination slowly. THese could be real aggreavitng factors. I am not sure what is the truth but such aggression was not expected from the top developed country like America.

There are other factors to worry for the US than BTCitcoin like Russia and China joining hands with Saudi Arabia and changing the stronghold narrative of dollar transaction for crude oil to their own currencies which will definitely undermine the dollar valuation and despite all the sanctions imposed on Russia there is no significant impact as Russia is smart enough to bypass them.

On top of that their banks are collapsing left and right, so instead of thinking about BTCitcoin they can focus on real things that are impacting their economy.

bitgolden

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 29, 2023, 06:43:01 AM

For the masses, yes, 100%. It's a total pipe-dream. Completely unrealistic. It would take generations for a majority of people to un-learn the terrible habits society has ingrained in us, collectively. And some of them do feel reassured by the perception of a "safety net", even if it's largely an illusion in the grand scheme of things.

But for anyone reading this topic, there's still hope for them. They've got some time left to learn better habits to protect themselves from mass bail-ins/bail-outs when traditional fiat finance falters, or the loss of crypto funds because they left them in the supposed care of custodians like exchanges or webwallets. They can learn to buy/sell/trade peer-to-peer whenever possible. They could avoid relying on payment processors and find merchants to shop with who accept Bitcoin directly. And they can encourage others to do the same. That's how true financial independence is best secured. "Be your own bank" and such.

Or, they can keep adopting middlemen instead of crypto and then complain when the regulations become too oppressive because the Nanny State wants to meddle. The choice is theirs.

That type of learned limitations is the fact that liberal policies rarely ever resulted with anything good, the wealth gap is not nice, and there should be limitations to make sure that nobody goes to bed hungry. This isn't communism, we all know Europe doesn't have communism at all, but it has limited liberalism, it's like USA , it has liberalism, you can be as rich as Elon Musk, BUT it would be a lot harder, and you would pay more taxes.

But, do you know what the difference is? In return of that, people die from not being able to buy their insulin in the USA, they don't in Europe. That's just a simple example of course and there are more examples like that, but they took it from one side, and just balanced it out a bit, without putting limits to wealth at all.

bangjoe

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Quote from: woez on April 25, 2023, 08:52:32 AM

Quote from: Flexystar on April 25, 2023, 08:13:56 AM

Has the American government taken any sort of oath to put down Bitcoin?

My thought is, US legislation is brutally scared about bitcoin. They definitely thinking it could misplaced the American Dollar position from the market and give rise to another era of economics. They might be thinking they are losing the dollar value and it's world domination slowly. THese could be real aggreavitng factors. I am not sure what is the truth but such aggression was not expected from the top developed country like America.

To my knowledge the US government has not yet taken an oath to put down Bitcoin and it is quite possible that some policy makers and regulators are concerned about the potential impact of Bitcoin on the traditional financial system so they may view Bitcoin as a threat to the stability of the US dollar and the global economy and quite rightly that is the role of government is to protect the public and maintain the stability of the financial system, so that their attitude towards Bitcoin can be understood meaning they also have the effort to consider the potential benefits of cryptocurrencies and the role they can play in the financial future.

Even though without bitcoin the value of the dollar will destroy itself, if they do the same thing as what they have been doing so far, printing, printing, printing and printing is done like crazy. To be honest, what Yasa has learned from this situation is not what bitcoin has done so that it depreciates the value of the dollar, but they are the ones who have done that, they have removed themselves from the gold standard so that they can easily print money and do whatever they want freely. to their liking.

I think that America must be aware and not push too much on their outdated innovations, look at several other states (alliance) that have started to design a more just and stable financial system,

Z390

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Quote from: woez on April 25, 2023, 08:52:32 AM

Quote from: Flexystar on April 25, 2023, 08:13:56 AM

Has the American government taken any sort of oath to put down Bitcoin?

My thought is, US legislation is brutally scared about bitcoin. They definitely thinking it could misplaced the American Dollar position from the market and give rise to another era of economics. They might be thinking they are losing the dollar value and it's world domination slowly. THese could be real aggreavitng factors. I am not sure what is the truth but such aggression was not expected from the top developed country like America.

To my knowledge the US government has not yet taken an oath to put down Bitcoin and it is quite possible that some policy makers and regulators are concerned about the potential impact of Bitcoin on the traditional financial system so they may view Bitcoin as a threat to the stability of the US dollar and the global economy and quite rightly that is the role of government is to protect the public and maintain the stability of the financial system, so that their attitude towards Bitcoin can be understood meaning they also have the effort to consider the potential benefits of cryptocurrencies and the role they can play in the financial future.

The US government should be more worried about the new money coming from Russia, India, and some other countries, they have come together to put US dollars in shame, why cryptocurrency? If this crypto thing is this bad are they saying that China is blind? Are they saying that all other countries that fully support crypto are blind?

The US government fear what they don't know, because I don't believe they understand what Crypto is, even Gensler who was supposed to know all the details about crypto projects failed woefully, he didn't know if Ethereum is a security or not, a fool like him, still want to rui. Ethereum when he knows nothing, I am thinking that there are many Gensler like left in the USA.

tread93

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I mean honestly how many times has crypto or bitcoin been declared dead in general? Its completely ridiculous to say that it is completely dead in the US. Of course there is going to be a crack down on regulatory and a framework will be in place, as it has been in place on any asset class in the world. There has to be some regulatory framework. I think ultimately the CBDC will be a very large part of this framework and operate as the new USD eventually and I rue the day this happens. Its happening in Asia right before our very eyes with China and South Korea already paying employees in the Government CBDC Yuan and Russia is going to issue their CBDC before the end of 2023 apparently. BRICS will follow suit and before you know it every government in the world will start running their own CBDC train. I imagine that it could even be nearly implemented, in theory (at least the CBDC trials) by the time Bitcoin Halves, perhaps.

Phu Juck

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Palihapitiya is a butthurt clown because Palihapitiya owns huge shitcoins bags.
One needs to know about Palihapitiya: he is a rich guy (investor), who's living in a rich villa and Palihapitiya is rich 1%.
Palihapitiya makes money from pumping centralized shitcoins.
And Palihapitiya confuses Bitcoin and Shitcoins on purpose: shitcoins are centralized and like companies. Shitcoins are controlled by shitcoin team owners and for PoS coins, also from stakers because PoS is not decentralized like Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is different fom most shitcoins.

Palihapitiya is just butthurt because Gensler calls out centralized shitcoin fraud frequently.
Gensler is right.
Palihapitiya is a shitcoin clown.

DooMAD

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on April 29, 2023, 12:12:44 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 28, 2023, 01:04:15 PM

Exactly. "Services" and "Clients". That's the weak link. That's what we're doing wrong. It ideally works better as Protocols and Users. Then there's no one who can be coerced to report anything. That's how we're meant to be doing it. Stop putting middlemen into the equation and it instantly becomes more robust to regulatory and legal interference.

Nation states are only doing what they were always going to do. And we're making it too easy for them.

Although I agree with the general idea, I think it is a utopia, as the masses don't ever care about this. They will willingly accept CBDCs as they have accepted the cash limits in Europe, which in countries like Spain are as low as €1,000.

In other parts of the world, especially in the Anglo-Saxon world, there are more people with a libertarian conception, but in the EU the dominant conception is that the state is the best guarantor of the freedom and security of citizens, so the tendency is to collaborate, and to think that if someone wants to escape from the state for privacy it is because they have something illegal to hide.

For the masses, yes, 100%. It's a total pipe-dream. Completely unrealistic. It would take generations for a majority of people to un-learn the terrible habits society has ingrained in us, collectively. And some of them do feel reassured by the perception of a "safety net", even if it's largely an illusion in the grand scheme of things.

But for anyone reading this topic, there's still hope for them. They've got some time left to learn better habits to protect themselves from mass bail-ins/bail-outs when traditional fiat finance falters, or the loss of crypto funds because they left them in the supposed care of custodians like exchanges or webwallets. They can learn to buy/sell/trade peer-to-peer whenever possible. They could avoid relying on payment processors and find merchants to shop with who accept Bitcoin directly. And they can encourage others to do the same. That's how true financial independence is best secured. "Be your own bank" and such.

Or, they can keep adopting middlemen instead of crypto and then complain when the regulations become too oppressive because the Nanny State wants to meddle. The choice is theirs.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 28, 2023, 01:04:15 PM

Exactly. "Services" and "Clients". That's the weak link. That's what we're doing wrong. It ideally works better as Protocols and Users. Then there's no one who can be coerced to report anything. That's how we're meant to be doing it. Stop putting middlemen into the equation and it instantly becomes more robust to regulatory and legal interference.

Nation states are only doing what they were always going to do. And we're making it too easy for them.

Although I agree with the general idea, I think it is a utopia, as the masses don't ever care about this. They will willingly accept CBDCs as they have accepted the cash limits in Europe, which in countries like Spain are as low as €1,000.

In other parts of the world, especially in the Anglo-Saxon world, there are more people with a libertarian conception, but in the EU the dominant conception is that the state is the best guarantor of the freedom and security of citizens, so the tendency is to collaborate, and to think that if someone wants to escape from the state for privacy it is because they have something illegal to hide.

serjent05

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The article is all about personal thought so I wouldn't hold any weight on it. Not because the person who is talking is a previous crypto enthusiast means it is credible and true. If we look closely on how he delivered the statement, it is all about his personal belief with some selected example and issue that support his claim disregarding other factors that oppose his idea.

About regulation, I think it is a matter of who is sitting on the higher hierarchy which can be changed every time there is an election. So to say, crypto isn't dead in America, just because the one sitting on the top is against cryptocurrency, it is already dead? Look how active some parts of America in contributing to the crypto Industry and how some places in America is being rated as top mining place.

Quote from: southerngentuk on April 28, 2023, 01:32:06 PM

Some politicians and business leaders have embraced the potential of cryptocurrencies, particularly in terms of their ability to facilitate fast and secure cross-border transactions and promote financial inclusion. Additionally, some American companies have invested heavily in cryptocurrencies, including Tesla's purchase of $1.5 billion in Bitcoin and Square's acquisition of $50 million worth of Bitcoin.

Overall, the relationship between America and the cryptocurrency industry has been complex, with a mix of support and skepticism from various government officials and regulatory bodies. So, it remains to be seen how the government will ultimately regulate and approach the use of cryptocurrencies in the future.

Exactly, that is why crypto despite many oppositions still thrives in America because there is a mixed stance toward the acceptance and adoption of cryptocurrency.

Flexystar

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Quote from: southerngentuk on April 28, 2023, 01:32:06 PM

Some politicians and business leaders have embraced the potential of cryptocurrencies, particularly in terms of their ability to facilitate fast and secure cross-border transactions and promote financial inclusion. Additionally, some American companies have invested heavily in cryptocurrencies, including Tesla's purchase of $1.5 billion in Bitcoin and Square's acquisition of $50 million worth of Bitcoin.

Overall, the relationship between America and the cryptocurrency industry has been complex, with a mix of support and skepticism from various government officials and regulatory bodies. So, it remains to be seen how the government will ultimately regulate and approach the use of cryptocurrencies in the future.

This does not really give much importance to the American relationship with the crypto on positive nodes. I mean, these are just a couple of examples that are associated with crypto and American-based companies. However, let us not forget the companies are owned by World's richest person who can literally bend the government the way he wants so no doubt they are not putting any allegations against him or his companies and shareholders thereafter.

On the other hand, crypto's downfall is way more imitated than the above examples. An entire bank failed because of the SEC and FED's stringent actions and they know very well they have done big mistakes. After math is already set, many companies will flee because of this and they will reddish the economy soon.

NotHatinJustTrollin

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bittraffic

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The US government has been suppressing the adoption thru Gensler but even so BTC adoption still is winning gradually. Chamath isn't the only who have been speaking in public about crypto companies leaving US because the lack of regulatory clarity. They are all aware they are losing because of the bank crisis.

The constant threat of lawsuit to tech companies like Coinbase would really make then plan of leaving the country.

southerngentuk

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Some politicians and business leaders have embraced the potential of cryptocurrencies, particularly in terms of their ability to facilitate fast and secure cross-border transactions and promote financial inclusion. Additionally, some American companies have invested heavily in cryptocurrencies, including Tesla's purchase of $1.5 billion in Bitcoin and Square's acquisition of $50 million worth of Bitcoin.

Overall, the relationship between America and the cryptocurrency industry has been complex, with a mix of support and skepticism from various government officials and regulatory bodies. So, it remains to be seen how the government will ultimately regulate and approach the use of cryptocurrencies in the future.

DooMAD

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on April 27, 2023, 10:25:11 PM

Spain has recently passed a law that obliges all companies that provide cryptocurrency services to report each and every one of their clients' transactions to the tax authorities

Exactly. "Services" and "Clients". That's the weak link. That's what we're doing wrong. It ideally works better as Protocols and Users. Then there's no one who can be coerced to report anything. That's how we're meant to be doing it. Stop putting middlemen into the equation and it instantly becomes more robust to regulatory and legal interference.

Nation states are only doing what they were always going to do. And we're making it too easy for them.

Frankolala

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The US government is just scared of losing the value of dollar to bitcoin because they have seen it coming. This is why they are investigating and looking for a means not to let it happen but they have little or no knowledge to prevent this.

Bitcoin decentralized nature has made it impossible for governments to stop its adoption due to the fact that it uses p2p payment system and all transactions done remains anonymous in terms of the identity of the persons involved. From my own side,the US is still a bitcoin friendly country for them to have more miners and more citizens investing into bitcoin that ever. If they put regulatory on bitcoin can will destroy its potential in the US, businesses will be moving down to a bitcoin friendly country to continue their business.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 25, 2023, 09:02:10 AM

If this tech investor can't distinguish between genuine crypto and the third party middlemen exploiting crypto, then they're in the wrong business. It doesn't matter if the SEC targets custodian "services". Crypto was never designed to be used in that fashion. You aren't meant to trust third parties and treat them like banks to hold your funds for you.

Centralised Exchanges are a vestige of traditional finance. Something we shouldn't be looking to replicate in crypto. They introduce too many points of failure and are too easily shut down by regulators. It's far better when things can be done at protocol level. More resistant to regulatory shutdown, fewer points of failure, better privacy and security for users and many other benefits. Over time, crypto will naturally gravitate towards protocols, simply because they are more robust.

Do you think that legislation will allow cryptocurrencies (basically bitcoin) to function as Satoshi intended? I don't know where you live, but the trend in Europe is to have to report all transactions, and Spain has recently passed a law that obliges all companies that provide cryptocurrency services to report each and every one of their clients' transactions to the tax authorities, even if they are just a few satoshis. This is in addition to the obligation that already existed for users, but since many users didn't report, companies are now obliged to do so.

In Europe, the MICA regulation establishes a difference for transactions of more than €1,000, that require full KYC, and those of less than €1,000 where 'only' asks for sender and receiver names. We'll have to see how this plays out, but if it requires names to be verified, and if it doesn't at first it will require it eventually, forget about using bitcoin as it was intended.

To what Chamath Palihapitiya says, 'Crypto is dead in America' I would add: 'and in the EU too'.

Darker45

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Crypto, of course, is very much alive in America notwithstanding the regulatory confusion and the seemingly hostile environment. I think the US is still in the learning process. In fairness, there is deliberation happening. Even in congress, there are legislators criticizing and defending crypto. That's actually a lot better than in other countries where a ban could be issued all of a sudden without careful deliberation. I guess the problem in the US is that while they are still in the middle of familiarizing crypto and studying which regulatory policy is apt, they are already filing lawsuits, imposing fines, doing investigations, and the like.

Topic: The America and the Crypto - Getting on wrong foot (Read 272 times)