The Authorities Are Not Smart Enough to Do This - page 2.

komisariatku

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin.

I think even if the Nigerian currency turns into a strong currency it will not change people's trust in Bitcoin because Bitcoin is still considered a valuable asset. In an investment context, investing in bitcoin is more profitable than other currencies in the world.

Apart from that, this option is also very difficult for the government to implement because creating fiat financial stability with a good exchange rate is difficult. The strength of currency exchange rates depends on world politics, world trade, national security stability, etc

Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

In the second approach, by simply ignoring Bitcoin or avoiding direct confrontation through over-regulation or restriction of its use, Bitcoin would just remain in a corner and not emerge as a significant threat to the financial systems.

I actually quite doubt whether the Nigerian government is really serious about banning Bitcoin or whether it is deliberately allowing its citizens to own Bitcoin even though the government has banned it. I am sure the government will not be able to stop bitcoin 100% because the Nigerian people are familiar and know how to hide bitcoin ownership, but if the government is serious about banning bitcoin then they can pressure the public and confiscate bitcoin ownership.

But I hope the Nigerian government can legalize bitcoin even if only as an asset. Like in my country, bitcoin is banned as a currency but legal to own as an asset and can be used in crypto trading and crypto exchanges

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on November 28, 2023, 08:31:12 AM

It's not that the authorities aren't smart, but they're just don't want to completely fight it.

If Nigeria is known as one of country which has a really high Bitcoin adoption, it means many of Nigerians aren't really protect their privacy. The authorities can just caught or threat their citizens, however this will give a bad effect to them and it's not that important to seize someone who don't have a lot coins.

To be honest, they're actually smart as they don't fight with fiat issues. Fiat is for the government, so they don't have to go against with it. And even if they start correcting the issues, that will not work anyway as people have already discovered that bitcoin is much better than fiat. Aside that it offers to the people the freedom from the use of fiat and from the controlling government, bitcoin price has also appreciating value while fiat value continue to depreciate.

So its better to leave the issues than to fight with it. For sure, the authorities have also their set of plans and bitcoin is not threatened by it.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

The two strategies, in my estimation, for dealing with Bitcoin are to fix fiat currency and, second, to promote an approach of ignoring Bitcoin rather than attacking it. In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin. I say this with utmost certainty because, in my country Nigeria, one of the major reasons why we are ranked among the top 10 countries in the world with the highest rate of crypto adoption is because of the instability of our national currency, high inflation rate, poor and deteriorating economic conditions, and lack of transparency in the financial systems leading to distrust in traditional financial institutions. If they can fix these shortcomings in traditional financial systems, Bitcoin will be less appealing to us. I know this is not exclusive to my country only.

The shortcomings only affect you and me, to the corrupt officials of the government, they are unaffected, hence do not care about making the situation of things too better and out of their control.

In their unconcern to remedy the shortcomings with our fiat, they indirectly promote bitcoins.

More mistake from them was to flaunt CBDC's, because that also has brought about comparison that finally ends with people seeing bitcoins as better.

Kelvinid

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Too sad that corruption and greed have really poisoned the minds of elected officials and don't let Bitcoin become a reason for not fulfilling their wants. Which is why they implement rules and regulations against Bitcoin. They will say it is for the benefit of the community and to stop scamming but I don't that is how we stop such incidents.
They are smart enough to encounter the adoption of Bitcoin but fortunately, people are still making their way to do it. The more they impose strict rules, the more it grows --perhaps, they are winning unless they totally ban crypto in their country.

Mate2237

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Authorities are aware of all these things you said but they just don't want the younger ones to progress if not there is nothing to worry about on Bitcoin. Because if the authorities support Bitcoin they will even enjoy it more than the young ones because they, the authorities have the funds to invest in Bitcoin but the young ones are struggling to invest. Bitcoin would have favoured the authorities very well.

In Nigeria even the government asked the CBN to ban crypto related services, there are some governmental personalities that are seriously involved in Bitcoin. In last week one of the governorship candidates were caught in cryptocurrency related issues. They are smart but they just don't want to do it.

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We can't expect that the authorities will come to address the problem with fiat issues because they are actually the ones who are abusing the use of fiat for their own personal interest. The fact that they're on top, then they have all the freedom and means to do everything they want, even if it will decrease the credibility of fiat. But that is not their problem anymore, but the blame is always on the citizens, and as long fiat remains the legal currency, then they can't get rid on it 100%, the reason why they are seeking some alternatives in bitcoin that fiat fail to do.

However, despite of the negative issues thrown to fiat, this become a blessing for bitcoin. Although we are not happy to see fiat deteriorating, but we all know unless fiat remains strong, then we can't find positive chances for crypto adoption to grow and become mainstream.

moneystery

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if it's about the transparency and potential of bitcoin, maybe i will agree why bitcoin is chosen by people compared to fiat currency, but if we talk about the instability of the national currency, high inflation rate, etc., i don't really agree, because in europe itself now many young people have chosen bitcoin as their investment, do you think that the euro is not stable enough?

so even if the government overcomes problems such as instability, high inflation rate, etc., people will still choose bitcoin because they think that bitcoin is a digital asset that can give them freedom and convenience in their transactions. it also has the potential to provide higher profits to its holders and that is what makes many people choose bitcoin compared to fiat.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

The two strategies, in my estimation, for dealing with Bitcoin are to fix fiat currency and, second, to promote an approach of ignoring Bitcoin rather than attacking it. In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin.

Until we begin to realize that those who buy and hodl Bitcoin aren't doing that because they think Bitcoin is solely money. Nope, I don't think they truly believe that. They think of it as an asset, a property to be treasured. Otherwise, they won't be hodling it and then be spending fiat in its place to get their stuff. So, even if fiat is fixed (according to your word), people will still seek Bitcoin as much as they look at it as an asset to be hoarded and then sold off during a bull rally.

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I think the authorities have been governing for a long time and they already know how to manipulate things and how literally beneficial for them to approach Bitcoin. We can notice that they would attack Bitcoin as they would have a negative reputation in the public so people would not prefer digital currencies to traditional fiat money which they can easily manipulate and control, it is literally the corruption and greed that hinders them from completely welcoming Bitcoin. I actually agree with your ideas but with Bitcoin's decentralized system, the only thing that the government could do is either ban them or approach them, but we know that it might take a long time for people to adopt BTC since it's still volatile.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin.

Authority will never want this. actually all fiat problem happened because of them.. The government persons going to rich everyday while poor people just living a normal life and there is no benefits for poor to adopt own country currency. Authority doesn't use our taxes properly in country building, devolpment and providing services which make our life easy. we are not given bright opportunity where we invest and we believe that our money will be save and we will earn like investing in btc.

Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

high inflation rate, poor and deteriorating economic conditions, and lack of transparency in the financial systems leading to distrust in traditional financial institutions. If they can fix these shortcomings in traditional financial systems, Bitcoin will be less appealing to us. I know this is not exclusive to my country only.

all devolping country facing same issue. Due to corrupt government, bad startegy our country currency is going down day by day and we are now 3x down in one year. How we can hold our currency in bank in this situation. Inflation rate is also down. The only solution is to convert all extra fiat to Bitcoin. It not just helping us to fight against inflation but also it is great investment for the future.

Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

For instance, the authorities in my country, through the Central Bank, placed a ban on Bitcoin transactions and ordered the banks to freeze the accounts of individuals transacting business with Bitcoin. Did this stop Bitcoin adoption and increase? No way.

But I doubt that the authorities are smart enough to do this. Please leave a comment.

Crypto dealing through bank is also banned in our country but the user is more than before and no one has stopped the use of crypto. Government cannot stop citizens to trade btc because alternative method (P2P) is available. Government can take profit by allowing users to freely trade crypto and put low tax. In this way not only citizens will be happy and use this technology properly but also government will get tax to use for country devolpment.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

I say this with utmost certainty because, in my country Nigeria, one of the major reasons why we are ranked among the top 10 countries in the world with the highest rate of crypto adoption .

hmmm

Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

For instance, the authorities in my country, through the Central Bank, placed a ban on Bitcoin transactions and ordered the banks to freeze the accounts of individuals transacting business with Bitcoin. Did this stop Bitcoin adoption and increase? No way.

They don't care to enforce this!

Imagine NK would have the same problem with crypto, a few thousands shot live on the 8pm news, their bodies paraded though the streets with loudspeakers announcing the enemies of the nations and then for month every single citizen called to the police station to tell if he owns or not coins, do you think you would still deal with cryptos? No you won't!

It's just about their willing to do so, if they would want to it's pretty simple to make an account on Binance, trade with all users that posts sell or buy orders then simply arrest them based on their payment details and after 48 hours of waterboarding they will cough up every single of their clients. Then pick those guys up and start again with the waterboarding, see how simple that is? Besides, when you think that authorities can;t get you, remember Tor was developed by a government agency, SHA-2 was developed by the NSA, do you really think everyone there is just some old fart in their 90's who doesn't know how to use a smartphone? Ross, Silkroad, Alphabay, even CM would have something to say about hard hard it's to track somebody!

As for fixing fiat, why do you need to fix it?
You say 47% of the country is owning and using crypto, so with half of the economy running on Bitcoin you should be the world leading economic growth pylon, right? Oh, wait!

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

In the second approach, by simply ignoring Bitcoin or avoiding direct confrontation through over-regulation or restriction of its use, Bitcoin would just remain in a corner and not emerge as a significant threat to the financial systems. For instance, the authorities in my country, through the Central Bank, placed a ban on Bitcoin transactions and ordered the banks to freeze the accounts of individuals transacting business with Bitcoin. Did this stop Bitcoin adoption and increase? No way.

But I doubt that the authorities are smart enough to do this. Please leave a comment.

I really don't see how government ignoring bitcoin, in over regulating it or restricting its usage will keep it in a corner, so it won't be a threat to the financial system. Are you saying that if everything that you mentioned are not in place then bitcoin will not have relevance in the country? Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat, and it's a matter of choice for an individual to adopt it, it is decentralized while fiat is centralized. People who seek privacy in their transactions, and wants a decentralized currency for it, will go for bitcoin, not because of it's government restrictions, but because it's an, asset that serves their purpose. Maybe I don't understand your topic well, because I don't see how the authorities not being smart enough to keep bitcoin in a corner will restrict it's adoption.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

The two strategies, in my estimation, for dealing with Bitcoin are to fix fiat currency and, second, to promote an approach of ignoring Bitcoin rather than attacking it.

The fait currency can never be fixed, I don't think any currency can ever be entirely fixed and if this is done, bitcoin won't be highly affected by this but those trading currency pairs and the government and economist knows why this isn't feasible
The government can never ignore Bitcoin and even if they choose to attack it Bitcoin will continue to grow, while they ignoring it will make its adoption faster, just like how it was when it was created in 2009, I believe they never thought it adoption rate would have grown this fast.

In as much that government are against Bitcoin is only from the fact that they want to control it because its bigger than them. Most government officials will never want to see bitcoin fall because they are also investing in bitcoin (nobody will ever turn down a sure means of making more money legitimately) and since some of them are in the position to cause FUD, they will do just that in order to make the market favour them more

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Bitcoin doesn't care either way. The authorities might ban bitcoin completely and btc will still find a way to survive. Not on a corporate level however p2p transactions can't be banned completely. I don't agree with your other points where you think bitcoin is the solution to your country's problems. Yes printing FIAT out of thin air is a big problem but switching to bitcoin won't solve the problems automatically. People should change first. Unless people stop being greedy and stupid, bitcoin can't help countries. Building a better education system is a great start.

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The issue regarding the option of using either Bitcoin or fiat currency has never been a serious issue that the authorities would even bother to look for ways to diminish one using any of the approaches you just outlined. Although the authorities don't want to publicly accept the adoption of Bitcoin, I feel that both Bitcoin and fiat currency should be allowed to exist and serve their purposes. They both have advantages and disadvantages and could still be used together in society to solve their peculiar purpose.

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I'm not sure what the op means by fixing fiat, to be honest. I can see the info about Nigeria, but these issues aren't universal.
Some countries have major issues with fiat, like hyperinflation or just high inflation. But there are many examples of fiat currencies that have been doing quite well for a long time (if 0-5% of annual inflation is considered 'well' because that's the aim of many fiat currencies). Moreover, some would say that the problem of fiat is that it can be printed and destroyed at a whim of authorities. Others might add that the key issue of fiat is that it is no longer backed up by truly valuable assets. So, according to different people, fixing fiat would mean very different things.
As for ignoring Bitcoin, I think it's already pretty common, as active opposition to Bitcoin is an approach undertaken by a minority of countries. But some cannot allow themselves to ignore Bitcoin because they see it as a direct threat to their control over their population (as is the case in China).

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I think you are right. That is what they should do if they wanted Bitcoin to get less recognization by the local population, although they aren't smart enough to do that. Of course there isn't a complete fix for fiat currencies, since they operate in an inflationary model, where money is constantly printed to keep the economy under control, but in extreme cases like the one we see in Nigeria, I think it's pretty possible to make the situation much better through an economical reform or plan introduced by the government and central bank, supported and elaborated by specialists.

It has already happened in many third world countries and worked nicely, including my country, Brazil, where inflation was also out of control by the 90's decade, and got significantly better since then through the 'Plano Real' economical remodeling introduced in 1993-1994.

In every cases, I don't think you should feel so bad about it, because at least it's an opportunity for Bitcoin to shine and get more acceptance in your local community. Since it's being enough to supply the demands of your countrymen, that should be Ok!

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

The two strategies, in my estimation, for dealing with Bitcoin are to fix fiat currency and, second, to promote an approach of ignoring Bitcoin rather than attacking it. In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin. I say this with utmost certainty because, in my country Nigeria, one of the major reasons why we are ranked among the top 10 countries in the world with the highest rate of crypto adoption is because of the instability of our national currency, high inflation rate, poor and deteriorating economic conditions, and lack of transparency in the financial systems leading to distrust in traditional financial institutions. If they can fix these shortcomings in traditional financial systems, Bitcoin will be less appealing to us. I know this is not exclusive to my country only.

The first policy you're trying to talk about cannot fully have it implementation or effect because fiat does not yield interest.
But Bitcoin yield interest with time. So even if you put the economic infrastructure in place, in a bid to stabilize the country's currency, it won't still affect the adoption of bitcoin in Nigeria. For every economy in the world inflation is bound to take place, the level of impact can either be determined by the effect your government tries to put in place to control it. So whether there is inflation or not, it doesn't negate the fact that fiat has its own deficiencies which in the other hand gives Bitcoin its own advantage.

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If not a matter of if, sorry I am not wishing bad for the country but since the beginning of time, this country have only enjoy improvement just once, that was when a general called Muritala took over presidency, nothing in the history of Nigeria comes close to what this man achieved in a short period of time in power, my advice is all Nigerians should not hope and wait for some magical change to happen, fixing the country is now 100 times more harder than 20 years ago.

Since I was into crypto I have never use any centralised bank to make any payment that's related to crypto, even while the news of ban was circulating I was not worried a bit, and another thing is I don't keep money in the bank, assuming they block my bank account right now it does nothing to me, my assets are locked away in a offline cold storage anyway.

All hope is not lost for Nigeria but not until all mind becomes one there is never going to be a real change, when the poor ones start saying no to the people in power that's when things will start to take a turn, right now money still buy some people, in fact a lot of people, this is what is dragging down all sense of justice and growth in the country.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on November 28, 2023, 08:09:55 AM

The two strategies, in my estimation, for dealing with Bitcoin are to fix fiat currency and, second, to promote an approach of ignoring Bitcoin rather than attacking it. In the first strategy, all the authorities need to do is to address the issues facing traditional fiat currencies. I bet if they can do this successfully, individuals will be less motivated to seek alternatives like investing in Bitcoin. I say this with utmost certainty because, in my country Nigeria, one of the major reasons why we are ranked among the top 10 countries in the world with the highest rate of crypto adoption is because of the instability of our national currency, high inflation rate, poor and deteriorating economic conditions, and lack of transparency in the financial systems leading to distrust in traditional financial institutions. If they can fix these shortcomings in traditional financial systems, Bitcoin will be less appealing to us. I know this is not exclusive to my country only.

In the second approach, by simply ignoring Bitcoin or avoiding direct confrontation through over-regulation or restriction of its use, Bitcoin would just remain in a corner and not emerge as a significant threat to the financial systems. For instance, the authorities in my country, through the Central Bank, placed a ban on Bitcoin transactions and ordered the banks to freeze the accounts of individuals transacting business with Bitcoin. Did this stop Bitcoin adoption and increase? No way.

But I doubt that the authorities are smart enough to do this. Please leave a comment.

I agreed with your two approaches and deeply understand the reason why you have suggested for them, however, we should not forget some conditions also that surrounded all these together, the government has their own, the people has their own, some part of the government may actually support the use of bitcoin but couldn't come boldly to say that, secondly are the people as well, many were fast interested in bitcoin adoption while some were not and others remain indecisive about it, yet the government or it's people can't stop whatever achievement bitcoin has brought down to our table regardless of their regulations on it.

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