Topic: the best evidence that bitcoin will succeed, courtesy of fewcoins (Read 6077 times)

I don't hate bitcoin... I hate scammers and this community is full of them... check out:
http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

The MtGox bubble was a scam which generated a bubble that is slowly deflating and it would somehow be logical to fall back on prices before that peak, with two opposing corrections.  One correction is negative, as the scam has hurt bitcoin.  The other correction is positive, as there is more bitcoin activity around now than back then.  I don't think we will see another such peak.  With higher levels of capital, with more exchanges, with more derivative tools, only relatively small price evolution is IMO possible, following the expected future fundamentals.  Up, or down.  I don't know if the bubble from Willy bot has completely deflated yet, or still has to go an end down. 

I wouldn't expect ANY strong surge any more.  Only relatively smooth evolution.  Up.  Or down.

If you abstract away the bubble and its slow deflation, you could say that bitcoin came to some sort of maturity and will now evolve to whatever it will evolve into and price will follow - or be a precursor.   We're in the "few hundred $" range, and probably bound to stay there for a long time, with rather smooth evolution (up or down), following whatever will become of bitcoin.

In fact, the only potentially strong short-term evolution I can think off, is down, when long-time hodlers will realize that no surge to a few thousand $ is in it in the near term, and will cash out, which may lead to a panic-sell eventually.

Realizing that the surge to $1200 was a bot manipulation, if you abstract it away, bitcoin price has been relatively stable in the few hundred $ since about 2 years.

I wonder what caused him to hate bitcoin

"Think as bitcoin as "cash", it is just as unsafe and anonymous."
It's a hell of a lot less safe than cash. Cash physically changes hands for an item that is right there, to be seen and handled. Btc is sent for stuff over the internet, and the hope is you will receive what is expected. If not, you have no recourse. A middleman like Amazon could tell the retailer to refund the btc, but there is no way for them or you or anyone else to take it back. The seller has to be willing. This is the flaw in crypto, this is the elephant in the room. Relying on the goodness of human nature doesn't work in the real world because humans are assholes in general.

To say that btc is safer than credit cards may be true if you aren't spending it, it's harder to hack into. But then again you just have to dispute the bogus charges, which is a hassle but at least it's an option. It's also "safer" for a shitty seller who doesn't want to worry about chargebacks. In any other sense credit cards are safer.

It's actually about one fifth of the picture, if we want to be generous and count the early years.
Bitcoin hasn't been around that long

What makes a credit card fundamentally unsafe?
Credit cards may have a greater attack surface--by striking a balance between security and convenience.  A child can use one.  Bitcoin?  Not so much.

To put this in perspective with some actual numbers, let's see how much money is lost due to credit card "inherent insecur[ity].

Yeah.  We're losing 5 cents total for every $100 of volume.  Staggering.
For added perspective, consider the percentage of total Bitcoin lost to fraud in Mt.Gox debacle alone.  

Which elegantly segues us into my basic point:
Bitcoin is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for anyone but the dyed-in-the-wool Libertarian nutters who make Ron Paul seem sane.
It's a great answer to a question that no one asked

One year is only a blip in the greater picture. Thank you for pointing out that Bitcoin has so much potential to see the previous highs! You Sir, are a closet permabull. If you really thought nothing of Bitcoin you wouldn't be here. Thanks for all the love you show here!

Think as bitcoin as "cash", it is just as unsafe and anonymous.
The whole banking system is a wrapper for cash money in my opinion, it is therefore added value (yes banks gamble with your money ).

There is no reason for companies(or banks) to add value to the base-system we call bitcoin.
Adding value can have negative consequences add cost, reduce anonymity, centralize, etc. in exchange for insurance, storage or protection.

I believe most bitcoin users would hate to see the centralization of bitcoin services giving governments control over it.
However if you look at cash money which is also decentralized you see a clear value in using a bank, credit/debit card due to protection and ease of use.

I think we will start to see these services pop up. Maybe some clever minds will make it easy to use, give protection but keep it decentralized and anonymous.

Sure you get protection with a credit card. Your going to need it because credit cards are fundamentally unsafe. Of course you will pay for that and you could buy insurance for your bitcoins also. I don't because unlike my CC, I can secure my bitcoins myself.

As you point out, transactions are one way. Retailers absolutely love this. It eliminates chargebacks and other scams they often face. If your concern is that you can't get a refund, well you can. Last week I bought some honey caramels from bee's brothers. The transaction went fine, but later they sent me an email informing me that I had overpaid for shipping. They asked for an address and sent back the coins. Super easy, I didn't do anything except wait a few hours.

Lastly, this year has been the year of bitcoin. It might look bad to someone who came in at the high, but I have been doing this since BTC was $0.50. I do not "invest" in bitcoin, I use bitcoin, so what matters to me is how many places I can spend them. These are good times!

One of the reasons old school credit cards are so expensive to use is you get protection. You have recourse in case the product or service you paid for isn't as advertised. You have insurance. Crypto offers none of that, once you pay your money is gone forever. Does anyone honestly think this will ever be mainstream? you are delusional if so.
I'd also like to add that yes, 2+ years ago btc was a great investment. The last year it's been a terrible one however, a few early adopters got rich off a bunch of late buyers. I just don't see a rise happening again, joining the bears.

We are not so far apart. I agree with most of what you say once its broken down. I don't think most people or businesses are ready for bitcoin yet. However it is to their detriment. I have helped businesses set up their BTC systems and they are all glad they did it.
I am a little confused about speculation vs. investing. Those are the same thing to me, and I think it is a very risky thing to do with BTC. It is much better as the payment network it was designed to be.
In the long term, barring some black swan, I am very confident that bitcoin will grow exponentially from the infancy it is in now. There is no better money in history and once people understand just how radically different this is from anything else it will seem foolish to use an old skool credit card.

Exactly why most of you should really rethink why you hold bitcoin... what exactly are you hoping and waiting for???


This is very true. Even I can't deny this fact since I am not an ultimate troll like some of you claim but rather a realist.
Many of my employees are now mentioning bitcoin almost everyday instead of talking about USD, EURO, etc. This is true that more and more people are finding out about bitcoin. I asked if they would want a small percentage in bitcoin rather than USD but I only get laughing responses. Most of the world is not ready to use this as a currency yet. Hopefully they see how good it can be if we all jumped in and supported the network but unfortunately humans are not very proactive anymore & they tend to like direct deposit and banks stealing their money. Actually it's not they like it but they aren't proactive especially for ANY change. Especially if governments and banks say no no no bitcoin that isn't good you shouldn't use that.

This is why I see Bitcoin as very hard to invest in. It is more for trading or "speculating" which means it actually has no real value yet. Zero. This is also why the blockchain and other technology will be "used" (stolen) to be applied to other payment systems and make them more secure. I think Australia is already doing something like that for their banks right now

More people know about bitcoin than ever. Twice this week co-workers approached me saying they had finally heard about bitcoin from someone else. I'm ok with the growth I have seen in the past few years.

Winning the world over to bitcoin? Interest and value has been falling all year... 

Thanks fewcoins! It's businesses like yours that are winning the world over to bitcoin! 

So start stealin' buddy, it's the Bitcoin way!

We need more people getting their cash and visa stolen so people understand why BTC is so awesome.

Which lottery would that be, where everyone who bought tickets won? Can't recall any.

'store of value' ... not bitcoin ...

idiots still talking about store of value when we are down over 70% is exactly why I lost faith in bitcoin!