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Topic: The best way to Hoard coins (Read 4810 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
November 07, 2012, 01:22:27 PM
#49
Hoarding bitcoins=Good for you, Bad for the Bitcoin currency, Wich is what your hoarding, So you devaluing what your trying to hoard, By hoarding it.
AKA, Bad for you in the LONG run. AKA Bad for bitcoin in the Short AND long run

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving

In a mature economy, that will not happen. One guy "dumps" his holodings (maybe he wants to put a down payment on a house or for some other reason needs to use his savings), that will influence the price downward, at which point other people say "Wow, bitcoin went down, I'll grab some". So the price of bitcoins gets bid back up. When the bitcoin system has a balance of "hoarders" and "day traders", the price will remain relatively stable.
sr. member
Activity: 454
Merit: 250
Technology and Women. Amazing.
November 07, 2012, 12:37:07 PM
#48
spending coins on good and services is better than selling coins for fiat, period. merchant will probably sell your coins for fiat in-turn, but at least you're supporting merchants who accept BTC, thus strengthening the economy userbase. i'm all for providing merchants with business if they accept bitcoin, and the opposite if they're against bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
November 05, 2012, 09:00:56 PM
#47
Quote

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving


They won't panic dump their stash if they are good at hoarding/saving. And what is the big difference?


If the only value of coins is the continual upward demand from hoarding, and there is a perception that the value is dissapating, then a panic is a sure thing. Only a healthy market prevents that.

Strong hoarders prevent it too, or do you consider people who sell all their coins to still be hoarders somehow?
hero member
Activity: 533
Merit: 501
November 05, 2012, 08:10:11 PM
#46
Quote

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving


They won't panic dump their stash if they are good at hoarding/saving. And what is the big difference?


If the only value of coins is the continual upward demand from hoarding, and there is a perception that the value is dissapating, then a panic is a sure thing. Only a healthy market prevents that.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
November 05, 2012, 01:52:14 PM
#45
Quote

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving


They won't panic dump their stash if they are good at hoarding/saving. And what is the big difference?
hero member
Activity: 533
Merit: 501
November 05, 2012, 01:11:09 PM
#44
Hoarding bitcoins=Good for you, Bad for the Bitcoin currency, Wich is what your hoarding, So you devaluing what your trying to hoard, By hoarding it.
AKA, Bad for you in the LONG run. AKA Bad for bitcoin in the Short AND long run

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving

JackRabitt, you totally hit the nail on the head.

For those arguing the semantics of saving/hoarding, I think you are missing this point. Speculation alone will not be able to hold up the value of the currency, and spending your coins is critical to energizing this economy. As another poster who was arguing against me said, 90% of the currency is held by hoarders, and thus the hoarders prop up the value. When happens when that 90% get antsy? If 90% were circulating in the market, it would be no big deal, as you just go out and buy/sell stuff.

The economy is not as vibrant as the euro & dollar markets, but it only gets there when those that hold coins spend money. If you don't think there are things to spend money on, look here:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

I personally like the VPS options, and am moving from linode to one of those.

hero member
Activity: 533
Merit: 501
November 05, 2012, 12:50:35 PM
#43
One day, when a super-quantum computer cracks the encryption to all of the bitcoin addresses in 5 minutes,

Why would you troll like that?   You're not a dumb guy.  Why would you write that?

I put it in with the feasibility of mining gold at the earth's core. It was meant to sound rediclous and humorous but alas tone didn't come through the way I wished.
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
November 02, 2012, 02:13:06 AM
#42
People are going to hoard no matter. Its part of the game
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
November 01, 2012, 02:13:40 PM
#41
I wouldn't say I'm hoarding BTC, I am accumulating them. I spend them as much as possible, I loan them, I want the money flowing and the industry growing... but there is no doubt that I am always going to hold on to enough BTC to benefit when the price skyrockets. I won't sell everything I have even at $1000 USD/BTC. Value is going to continue to rise as long as I'm alive. Every time it triples or quadruples I will unload some... I don't care if it's in 2013 or 2020... until then you can call me a hoarder if you want.

No matter how high the price goes, there will always be a cold wallet in a security deposit box or under the floorboards somewhere with some of my Bitcoins.   Wink
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
November 01, 2012, 10:35:25 AM
#40
If people provided products honestly in return for bitcoin then more people would be encouraged to spend, I have yet to see anything in the bitcoin economy that makes me go zomgwtf I must have it, so far as a relative outsider to bitcoin I have only seen makeshift marketplaces with barely anything in them, blatantly pirated software and games for sale and ponzi schemes. All of which aren't a very encouraging thing for me and wouldn't convince me to part with my money.

At this I can agree. What Bitcoin is still missing is kind of a killer app, that would make BTC really extreme useful.

SatoshiDic shows that there are ways to use that technology, that aren't possible with conventional money.

I personally think, that with BTC there are applications possible no one has thought of yet, because we are all to stuck in the confidential way of thinking.

I still hope that one morning I will wake up, just thinking, "That's it".
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
November 01, 2012, 09:17:59 AM
#39
If people provided products honestly in return for bitcoin then more people would be encouraged to spend, I have yet to see anything in the bitcoin economy that makes me go zomgwtf I must have it, so far as a relative outsider to bitcoin I have only seen makeshift marketplaces with barely anything in them, blatantly pirated software and games for sale and ponzi schemes. All of which aren't a very encouraging thing for me and wouldn't convince me to part with my money.
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
November 01, 2012, 09:13:22 AM
#38
-Snip-

TL;DR hoarding is good, dumping is bad.

-MarkM-


Saving is good, Dumping is bad
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
October 31, 2012, 06:11:04 PM
#37
Hoarding bitcoins=Good for you, Bad for the Bitcoin currency, Wich is what your hoarding, So you devaluing what your trying to hoard, By hoarding it.
AKA, Bad for you in the LONG run. AKA Bad for bitcoin in the Short AND long run

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving

Your argument actually says that dumpers are bad, not that hoarders are bad.

Dumpers are a superclass of hoarders, as to them hoarding is merely a word some people use sometimes to refer to the "prepare a big pile of stuff to dump" step, the prepare your ammunition step needed to prepare for one's next dumping.

So they are not really hoarders at all, they are simply folks who need/use an amount of ammunition that some folk, mostly smaller scale folk in terms of numbers of coins involved, consider excessive or recognise as potentially sufficient to accomplish an effective dumping.

TL;DR hoarding is good, dumping is bad.

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
October 31, 2012, 02:59:37 PM
#36
I think no matter what, after people have hoarded the amount that enough to support his retirement, he will start to spend, that amount is about 100000BTC at today's price, and I think most of people have less than 1000 BTC, means price have to rise 100 times before people start to spend
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1114
WalletScrutiny.com
October 31, 2012, 10:41:20 AM
#35
All this hoarding does nothing for the bitcoin economy.

Well, not quite true.  

Let's say an item I need is priced in dollars, and the price is $10.    So if I prefer to pay for that purchase in bitcoins, I then buy $10 worth of bitcoins.  It doesn't matter what the exchange rate is.   If BTC/USD is $10, then I need 1 BTC.   If BTC/USD is $2 then I need 5 BTC.  Either way, I am exchanging $10 of fiat to get $10 worth of bitcoins.  

So in that context, you are correct.  Hoarding does nothing for the bitcoin economy -- it doesn't hurt nor help.  

Now if I am a Bitcoin-related entrepreneur I might hold bitcoins.  And I might be looking to raise funds for my entrepreneurial ambitions.  
If there is hoarding of coins and the exchange rate rises quite a bit, my coins have more buying power as the result of others hoarding.

Thus hoarding helps the undercapitalized risk-taking entrepreneur who bought or mined bitcoins for speculation earlier.

At the same time, an increase in the exchange rate due simply to hoarding increases the risk of a price collapse.  If that demand isn't due to those bitcoins being used in commerce for buying and selling, then many hoarders have greater control over the exchange rate.  There was a nearly 30% drop in the exchange  from the October high to October low.  

There probably wasn't a 30% decrease in the use of bitcoins for commerce transactions so the bulk of that move was speculative buying and selling (mostly selling).     If there wasn't hoarding the price probably would never have reached $13, and thus the drop wouldn't have been as dramatic.

This exchange rate volatility, which can be attributed to speculative activity (hoarding) then actually does do something for the Bitcoin economy -- it hurts it, at least from a merchant's perspective.  A merchant doesn't want to see the profits from a sale vaporize because the currency rate took a turn south.  As a result the merchant will use a payment processor to convert those coins to fiat, which add costs (which  makes Bitcoin less favored for commerce) and also lessens the likelihood that the merchant in turn will use those coins for its purchases.

The thing is, ... there's no "right" way.  Bitcoins function as a store of value, and they will be held for speculative purposes by those willing to take that risk.

No matter what payment method is used, a merchant -- especially one starting with no customer base, has a very tall hill to climb.  That some investors are holding onto bitcoins should really be of little concern to that merchant.

TL;DR: Hoarding is not the problem. Hoarders loosing faith is.

Stacking coins is a once in a lifetime (or much longer?) opportunity. I spend coins because that's nearly all I freaking have. Think about it, hoard them so hard you have to spend them to live.
I won't tell names, but I know somebody else in this position.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
October 31, 2012, 10:32:25 AM
#34
"Hoarding" is utter nonsense.

If, like me, you believe the fiat exchange rate of Bitcoin is undervalued then of course you're going to want to accumulate Bitcoins to the greatest extent of which you are financially capable and only sell them when you believe that the fiat exchange rate is overvalued.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
October 31, 2012, 09:54:25 AM
#33
Stacking coins is a once in a lifetime (or much longer?) opportunity. I spend coins because that's nearly all I freaking have. Think about it, hoard them so hard you have to spend them to live.
+1
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
October 31, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
#32
Hoarding bitcoins=Good for you, Bad for the Bitcoin currency, Wich is what your hoarding, So you devaluing what your trying to hoard, By hoarding it.
AKA, Bad for you in the LONG run. AKA Bad for bitcoin in the Short AND long run

Once one guy "dumps" his coin stash into the market, People will go "OH NO ITS CRASHING, I HAVE TO SELL MY STASH TOO!"

And Boom, There goes the bitcoin value. But theres a big differance between Hoarding and Saving
sr. member
Activity: 272
Merit: 250
October 31, 2012, 09:49:42 AM
#31
I am saving my bitcoins because at the moment they fluctuate too much although were trending up until this month which has took a bit of a dip.

If/when my bitcoins are worth more than I paid/mined them for then I might start spending or cashing out, but the main problem I see at the moment is most things are sold at their fiat equivalent anyway.

Even people on here say things like $500 or BTC @ mtGox average... so really, people still aren't happy enough to just say this is 50BTC, that is the price regardless of dollar/euro/pound
legendary
Activity: 4270
Merit: 4534
October 31, 2012, 08:09:33 AM
#30
hoarders are mainly people with day jobs to pay the bills so have no great desire to spend the coins just yet
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