Author

Topic: The Bitcoin Machine (Read 751 times)

legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 07, 2021, 03:29:27 AM
#53
Not surprising, laptop isn't good option if you're looking for fanless/noiseless device with 24/7. Barebone PC (such as Raspberry Pi and Intel NUC) is better option due to better ventilation.
NUCs are not always cheap or fan-free. I have a few of them at client sites sitting behind monitors.

I know, i simply didn't bother to write "Intel NUC which doesn't have fan".

Or simply use IPv6 / Tor which 'stay the same' out of the box.

Don't forget dynamic address also exist on IPv6.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 14, 2022, 11:03:17 AM
#49
I just received a message from one member who told me that he placed an order and he didn't receive any reply from their support even after he contacted them several times.
Someone else had" a similar issue 8 months ago" and it seems that you have to contact them a few times on "Twitter [as opposed to their email]" to get their attention.
- It's worth noting that "they shipped to someone 8 months after he/she placed the order" and that perfectly shows what kind of company is behind its operations [SMH]!

I don't know if they turned out to be a scam or not, but I also sent them a message to ask what is happening, and I didn't receive any reply.
Personally, I don't trust them, but any update on this?

and if you can help contacting them than please post any information you have below.
- The Twitter handle of their product head is @PraneshDevaraju
- It seems that the company that's behind it [DOIDO Technologies Pvt Ltd] has moved its domain from "doido.in" to "doidotech.com":

legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 13, 2022, 08:07:29 AM
#48
I just received a message from one member who told me that he placed an order and he didn't receive any reply from their support even after he contacted them several times.
I don't know if they turned out to be a scam or not, but I also sent them a message to ask what is happening, and I didn't receive any reply.
They used to work with Umbrel, but I didn't check any updates for a long time, but their twitter account seems to be active.

Please be careful with this website, and if you can help contacting them than please post any information you have below.
Thanks
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 06, 2021, 07:26:49 AM
#47
If you want fixed IP/address, you could use VPN (which support port-forwarding) or Tor (using onion address).
I only mentioned IP addresses as I was presuming that a person would want other nodes to open channels to their own box "in the wild", otherwise it would be just outbound connections to whomever you thought would make a suitable connection to open a channel to.  (In the wild would enable more randomness of locations your node would be connected to).
You actually don't need a fixed IP for people to connect to you and no port forwarding either, since all connections in Bitcoin are full duplex.

For Lightning, just make sure it always announces its current IP, be it static or not. (it can change; just need some script or so that adapts it accordingly - or dynDNS could be used, not sure). Or simply use IPv6 / Tor which 'stay the same' out of the box.
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 06, 2021, 06:28:06 AM
#46
There are fanless laptops, here is a list from 2018 (or 2019?).
MacBook Air with M1 processor is fanless as well. It happened almost an year ago. Do you consider it "standard laptop"?

Most of the fanless ones don't have a physical network port so you are dangling something off of the USB for physical connection.
And they tend to have smaller drives. For the Apple ones, they are so overpriced that you can get 3 bitcoin machines for the price of 1 Apple

Well, modern ARM-based laptops that run without fans, are basically a latest-gen Pi with a screen and keyboard. It's both ARM and thus very energy efficient, so they are not producing too much heat. This means they can cool themselves using the chassis as a passive heatsink and run a very long time on battery.

But, yes again 256GB drives at most for many of them and no physical network connection.

Not surprising, laptop isn't good option if you're looking for fanless/noiseless device with 24/7. Barebone PC (such as Raspberry Pi and Intel NUC) is better option due to better ventilation.

NUCs are not always cheap or fan-free. I have a few of them at client sites sitting behind monitors.



I think the loop here keeps coming back to is 'the correct tool for the job' RPIs have many things they can do well, and many things they don't do well. You really don't want one for gaming, or as a desktop replacement if you are working on massive spreadsheets, etc. For things like being a node, they do work well.

Small fanless laptops are easy to carry for travel, carry around campus and whatever else. But they tend to have to make compromises like smaller drives and less features in order to make them smaller and lighter and extend battery life for a limited size battery. For the ones that don't the price becomes an issue.

Full size desktops and laptops are well, full size desktops and laptops which is not what this thread is about.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
💲🏎️💨🚓
October 06, 2021, 06:19:13 AM
#45
If you want fixed IP/address, you could use VPN (which support port-forwarding) or Tor (using onion address).

I only mentioned IP addresses as I was presuming that a person would want other nodes to open channels to their own box "in the wild", otherwise it would be just outbound connections to whomever you thought would make a suitable connection to open a channel to.  (In the wild would enable more randomness of locations your node would be connected to).
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 05, 2021, 03:28:47 PM
#44
Search for "fanless laptops" Smiley
No I won't, they are heating like crazy even if they have fans, and like I said before I am much more a fan of RaspberryPi devices, that are cheaper, smaller, and they don't produce any noise.
Well, modern ARM-based laptops that run without fans, are basically a latest-gen Pi with a screen and keyboard. It's both ARM and thus very energy efficient, so they are not producing too much heat. This means they can cool themselves using the chassis as a passive heatsink and run a very long time on battery.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 05, 2021, 02:47:45 PM
#43
Search for "fanless laptops" Smiley
No I won't, they are heating like crazy even if they have fans, and like I said before I am much more a fan of RaspberryPi devices, that are cheaper, smaller, and they don't produce any noise.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 450
October 05, 2021, 01:30:47 PM
#42
I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.
Too often Sad And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.

Phones with a fan existed few years ago - I remember seeing a "gaming phone" with a fan... found it: "Red Magic 3" from 2019.

There are fanless laptops, here is a list from 2018 (or 2019?).
MacBook Air with M1 processor is fanless as well. It happened almost an year ago. Do you consider it "standard laptop"?

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 05, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
#41
I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.
Too often Sad And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.

Phone with a fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LUt89E-OY0
Side note about my nodes in a box: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nodes-in-a-box-5364113

As for running your laptop 24/7 I have a couple that I have run into the ground that way, but mostly from me not really being there.
One of the larger issues with this IMO, is that the fans are small and not that great so as they get clogged / less efficient, they try to run faster.
Sooner or later I find they do spin themselves into oblivion.

If they are not running where you can hear that happen, the laptop will overheat and shutdown.
Replacing the fan on most laptops is not that hard. But, you usually have to go and order the parts supplier someplace.
For a regular PC or RPi just about any computer store is going to have one.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 05, 2021, 12:42:38 PM
#40
I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.
Too often Sad And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 04, 2021, 06:58:01 PM
#39
I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.
Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.
I don't know, my experience was like Loyce Cheesy It does reduce the capacity but not much and I prefer swapping it for 20$ after some years or just throwing it out; since the device isn't going to ever be used as a laptop again anyway.
And I agree that it's not a UPS but it gives almost the same benefit at 0 extra cost.

Quote
I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.
Search for "fanless laptops" Smiley
Since my laptop is some trash that I don't even know where it came from, it does have a fan, but I just set it to around 3V (it's a 5V DC fan) using a buck converter wired to a USB port's + and - pads (all internal to the case). Totally silent in a corner of the room, doing its thing.. Smiley

Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you?  Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.
Nope, that's wrong, you don't need a fixed IP. It is exactly the same as having a NUC with any OS and Core + Zap running, indeed. Just that this is preconfigured and all set up, consumes less power and it has a screen which the NUC does not. So it looks a bit cooler in a store or hackerspace for example.
legendary
Activity: 3696
Merit: 2219
💲🏎️💨🚓
October 04, 2021, 03:57:17 PM
#38
Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you?  Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 04, 2021, 02:52:55 PM
#37
I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.
Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.

Quote
many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.
Mind if I call those experts dumb? Tongue A replacement battery costs what: $50? That's totally worth having a build-in UPS in case of power failure (or more likely: accidentally unplugging it). What's the point of having a battery if you're afraid to use it?
The laptop just stops charging when it's full. I'm aware that 100% full reduces the battery life, a lower charge is better for optimal storage. Ideally, laptops should just have the option to keep the battery charged at 50%, but I guess not many users would use that feature.

Quote
I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.
Search for "fanless laptops" Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 04, 2021, 01:42:44 PM
#36
Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!
I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.
UPS is much different thing, but many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.
I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 02, 2021, 01:23:31 PM
#35
Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.
Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!
I have to say; I had bad experiences with power losses on Pis; tons of corrupted data (read: re-download and verify many many blocks...), whereas crashes on desktops and laptops never had such an issue. But I digress Grin
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 02, 2021, 01:16:20 PM
#34
Off topic already, but since we are doing price comparisons, a cheap laptop would cost around $200 to $300. Add a 1 TB SSD and you can run a full node, has more cores, has more memory (or maybe the same) ... But is not as small as a raspi, or as low power usage.
You can even get cheap used desktop computer with SSD drive, but all point here is focused on plug-and-play solution, meaning no installation and no setting up.
This would be like you could buy a computer that already have preset and installed everything for running Bitcoin node, and I don't think it is possible to find that.
Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.

And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.
One more advantage I see is that Rpi has virtually no noise if you are not using any ventilators, and you can get pretty good cooling with aluminum heatsinks.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 02, 2021, 08:58:14 AM
#33
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting.
In my experience, that's not much of a problem: every laptop I ever broke, broke from travel (cracked housing from opening/closing, damaged power connectors, AKA usually mechanical problems), not from running on a desk for years. It only requires cleaning the fan once in a while and can literally last for years in a row.
I wouldn't buy one of those high TDP systems though, heat is terrible in a laptop.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 02, 2021, 07:29:44 AM
#32
It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.
Oh right, that's a valid point that I missed so far! I noticed for example that my old laptop's cooling is absolutely abysmal so I had to hook the fan up to the USB's 5V rail directly and step it down a bit using a buck converter so the laptop stays cool.
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 02, 2021, 07:25:12 AM
#31
It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.

You can get a NUC but they still can't do this:



And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 02, 2021, 07:03:06 AM
#30
Wouldn't a Chromebook be a good alternative in between a second hand laptop and a new RPi?
Chromebooks are very cheap for the hardware you get, just add a large microSD card to store the blockchain.

Disclaimer: I've never tried this.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 02, 2021, 05:59:53 AM
#29
~
Ohh right, you mean they could base the product on an Intel NUC. Well sure, but then what is there even left to do for them Grin They could actually just buy NUCs, install a prepared ISO file which includes OS, all software, blockchain download up to a certain point and ship it out. No need for custom case and SATA adapter.
But yeah it kind of makes sense. This product is an SBC with SATA board, power supply and case, which is basically exactly what the NUC is already.

Only thing it would lack would be the screen. So we're looking at just putting a NUC inside a box and attaching a screen. I mean at that point they could also just sell the ISO (without blockchain download maybe Tongue) for download and people can buy NUCs on their own ^^
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
October 02, 2021, 05:14:16 AM
#28
If the cost of this product is >$400, they might as well as offer Intel/AMD option (similar with Intel NUC). It might be $100-$200 more expensive, but you get more powerful device. And maybe with more I/O ports.
Me and others already mentioned that just getting an old laptop (which is basically the same hardware you find in NUCs) can be cheaper and more performant than building something yourself with a Pi with everything new. However, I think the biggest point for ARM devices like Raspberry Pi and the like is the power consumption. If you don't care about power consumption, you could even argue that a laptop is 'small enough' or compact enough (which would be the other point of getting something Pi-based).

As an example for an all-in-one NUC solution; I can find second-hand NUC with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD for under 400 bucks. However laptops with same specs can be got for 200ish.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
October 01, 2021, 09:20:06 AM
#27
Off topic already, but since we are doing price comparisons, a cheap laptop would cost around $200 to $300. Add a 1 TB SSD and you can run a full node, has more cores, has more memory (or maybe the same) ... But is not as small as a raspi, or as low power usage.

If you're doing all these sorts of experiments, a rack server, if you have the space for it, or even some desktop workstation, refurbished, and you can install your own OS and virtual machine and stuff, and run a bunch of nodes, all for under $600?

The bitcoin machine fits a very specific purpose, and all other small pi machines.

It's not ideal, but I've been running my full node from a laptop, now it's on my desktop (just copied the block files), because it's on 24/7. Full node since 2012.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
October 01, 2021, 08:31:07 AM
#26
I usually try to find official distributors for most products to make sure I get good genuine first-hand products. In the case of Raspberry Pi, you can select your location and find shops here.
Same here but at the moment, there's none on where I'm residing.
- Thank you for the link Smiley

It seems right now, Makerbright just has a 7 day lead time, not too bad. Maybe the others (which declare it as sold out) will be as fast, though. CanaKit also has some in stock if you get it as a 'starter kit' with SD card. And MicroCenter has it 'Available for In-Store Pickup Only'.
Not sure about the first two, but AFAIK MicroCenter is based in the US and I can't receive packages from there and despite knowing a few workarounds, I'd prefer to purchase it from a local reseller [unfortunately, that means an unofficial one] so I don't have to deal with customs here [they tend to ask for licenses if someone else already imports such items to the country (it's ridiculous and not worth the trouble)].

I don't know if it's possible to show Bitcoin blocks on display or only price and temperature, but github is showing it's very customizable so maybe it's possible.
It's possible [third image]: Bitcoin Machine LCD with Bitcoin and Satoshi Logo (ver 0.4)
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 01, 2021, 06:57:09 AM
#25
I checked MicroCenter website: Pi = $75, MX500 1TB = $100, Argon One m.2 = $50, PSU = $6. The total is $231.
Bitcoin Machine is not for everyone but I think it's still a cool project with decent price of average smartphone people usually change every few years, and it reminds me on BlockClock project by Coinkite with that nice display.
I don't know if it's possible to show Bitcoin blocks on display or only price and temperature, but github is showing it's very customizable so maybe it's possible.
If you don't care about your privacy or running your own node, than you obviously don't need this.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
September 30, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
#24
Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.
So that's why I couldn't find any of those locally [I would probably wait for another month to see if I could get my hands on one of these].
- Again, thank you for providing useful information, I appreciate it Smiley
I usually try to find official distributors for most products to make sure I get good genuine first-hand products. In the case of Raspberry Pi, you can select your location and find shops here.

It seems right now, Makerbright just has a 7 day lead time, not too bad. Maybe the others (which declare it as sold out) will be as fast, though. CanaKit also has some in stock if you get it as a 'starter kit' with SD card. And MicroCenter has it 'Available for In-Store Pickup Only'.

Of course and it's possible to purchase the stuff on your own. You're discouraging me to do it, though, if I don't know how or if I find the procedure difficult. Let's be honest, from those $429, what exactly am I paying for? A RPi 4, a 1TB drive and a bunch of other cheap accessories which all cost less than $150, but let's assume they do cost that much.
So, calculated in euro with tax added, it came out to around 430€ for the 'Bitcoin Machine' and around 300€ to build it yourself with this case (100 bucks) or 240 with a cheaper case that has no screen. There is a good markup, sure, but 150 shouldn't be enough to DIY it (even before tax) and it's manual labour to set them up, sync them and see that all runs fine & these guys surely have to pay fees to run their business and whatnot.

I checked MicroCenter website: Pi = $75, MX500 1TB = $100, Argon One m.2 = $50, PSU = $6. The total is $231.

I mean: even the 1TB SSD that you buy at MicroCenter for 99 bucks cost them way less to produce; that's normal Grin Everything's highly marked up for the end-consumer ^^ I once read that supermarkets have around 70% markup on most stuff.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
September 30, 2021, 11:55:56 AM
#23
I don't want to continue this further, because I may put my effort into this for nothing as it gets off-topic. That's why I'll (try to) only respond once.

Working people in China are almost slaves
You're thinking this falsely. Let me ask you a question; if you were born in China, and were used into living in a communist society, do you think you'd be unhappy? Do you think Chinese are unhappy with the system of government they serve? I believe that even if some disagree with this polity, they're used in living under these circumstances.

It's easy to judge if you're outside China and born in a capitalistic country which is freeing than that. (With a thousand of quotation marks)

You may call a dog, which eats once a day, a poor dog, as you think it's unhappy, but in reality you're imagining yourself under these circumstances which seem horrible since you eat much frequent than once a day. The dog is fine; it has used into living this way.




Again, in my opinion, I find this Bitcoin machine pricy.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 30, 2021, 11:34:40 AM
#22
You don't have to be ironic to provide your point of view. Also, in a communist country you don't get everything for free, but rather the opposite.
Opposite how?
All you phones, gadgets, computer chips and devices are coming from communist country called China.
In communist and socialist countries people are always complaining and wanting something cheaper and free, because government ''knows'' better.
You have ''free'' health care and bunch of other things, than you want free basic income and in few decades you end up in ruins.
Working people in China are almost slaves, and they have second class citizens in prison camps who are real slaves.
That is the price of CHEAP stuff.

So, I revert back. Don't you find it too much money for a stranger to set me up this? It looks rather exploitation to me.
Oh poor you, they are totally exploiting you, those evil capitalist from India  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
September 30, 2021, 11:04:45 AM
#21
You can go and buy the parts yourself. And assemble it yourself. Or you can have someone else do it.
Of course and it's possible to purchase the stuff on your own. You're discouraging me to do it, though, if I don't know how or if I find the procedure difficult. Let's be honest, from those $429, what exactly am I paying for? A RPi 4, a 1TB drive and a bunch of other cheap accessories which all cost less than $150, but let's assume they do cost that much.

 429
-150
 ----
 $279

So, I revert back. Don't you find it too much money for a stranger to set me up this? It looks rather exploitation to me.

Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.
You don't have to be ironic to provide your point of view. Also, in a communist country you don't get everything for free, but rather the opposite.
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
September 30, 2021, 08:18:30 AM
#20
Does anybody know if this is another US-based company or not [they haven't listed that information on their website]?
- As a last resort, I might go with such a thing if it doesn't ship from the US.

  • I had no luck in finding any of the Raspberry Pi models locally and I prefer to not order one [separately] from another country.
  • I couldn't find a reasonably priced VPS plan for running a full node.
  • I'm a bit paranoid about running Bitcoin Core on my desktop or laptop while using the same network connection.
    - Can someone convince me that I should stop worrying about its potential risks?

I agree with everybody that said it's overpriced but looks like we're forgetting about the normal [for the most part] markup percentages:


From https://thebitcoinmachines.com/terms-and-conditions/

Quote
Applicable Law

By visiting thebitcoinmachines.com, you agree that the laws of India, under the jurisdiction of the Tamil Nadu High Court, without regard to principles of conflict of laws, will govern these Conditions of Use and any dispute of any sort that might arise between you and thebitcoinmachines.com or its affiliates.

Disputes

Any dispute relating in any way to your visit to thebitcoinmachines.com or to products you purchase through thebitcoinmachines.com shall be submitted to confidential arbitration in Tamil Nadu, India, except that, to the extent you have in any manner violated or threatened to violate DOIDO Technologies Private limited intellectual

So it looks like they are in India.

Where are you located? Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
September 30, 2021, 08:04:39 AM
#19
Does anybody know if this is another US-based company or not [they haven't listed that information on their website]?
- As a last resort, I might go with such a thing if it doesn't ship from the US.

  • I had no luck in finding any of the Raspberry Pi models locally and I prefer to not order one [separately] from another country.
  • I couldn't find a reasonably priced VPS plan for running a full node.
  • I'm a bit paranoid about running Bitcoin Core on my desktop or laptop while using the same network connection.
    - Can someone convince me that I should stop worrying about its potential risks?

I agree with everybody that said it's overpriced but looks like we're forgetting about the normal [for the most part] markup percentages:

  • So it looks like they are in India.
    Thank you, Dave Smiley
    - I only used certain keywords to search on that page with a CTRL + F [I didn't expect it to be from India, I'm impressed with its overall design].

    Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
    Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.
    So that's why I couldn't find any of those locally [I would probably wait for another month to see if I could get my hands on one of these].
    - Again, thank you for providing useful information, I appreciate it Smiley
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
September 30, 2021, 07:47:32 AM
#18
Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).
I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache.

I am running ElectrumX and its database currently takes up exactly 71 GB of space! That's... a lot. Is anyone here running a different implementation so that we could compare the numbers?

By the way, n0nce are you going to set up your own node any time soon?
Right, it can be much more than 20, I was just throwing out ballpark order-of-magnitude numbers! I'm not sure about my exact size though.

Yup, almost there! Shut down the old node, moved all funds etc., now end of week probably going to reinstall OS, Core, reverify blockchain and recompile c-lightning cleanly without plugins at first (I believe those caused some issues). OT over Wink

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.
We are also taking a leap of faith when we are running Bitcoin Core, your phone and your computer, so we can just reduce the risks, unless we are security code experts with big brains.
I'm siding with DaveF here. If we install the OS and all software on our own, we will at least have verified each download and compiled it for ourselves. Instead a device with everything installed doesn't provide this certainty. It could easily be a forked version of either software with some little modifications that you can't notice in normal usage. Even if you're not a security expert and didn't check the code yourself, at least when DIY, you know you're running unmodified official release.

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.
Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.
Let's see how far you get.
Why do you purchase anything when in theory you can make anything your own, right? Wrong!
There are 2 arguments for DIYing this: price and security. When it comes to price, I agree: some people would be at a loss if doing it themselves, if their [hourly wage * time to set it up] is larger than the difference between DIY and buy. So in that case it depends on how much someone earns and how much time they need to set the node up. Students like to DIY lots of stuff since their wage is so low that it usually makes sense not to pay someone for it. But if you earn more and / or have little experience with Linux, it may be better to avoid DIY.
However, there will always be the issue of security if you don't 'DIY' this, since you haven't verified the software, which can be a larger or smaller concern based on what you want to do with it.

I'd argue if you don't store any funds on it anyway, there's no risk really. A plain full Bitcoin node can be run without any funds on it and provide the same functionality as if funds were added. It just changes if you want to be a Lightning router.
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 4110
September 30, 2021, 07:08:59 AM
#17
The price that appears is a little expensive for the average user, as most of those who runs a full node are either obsessed with privacy (will not trust third parties) or they are inexperienced (there is no need to manage a full node.)


It is suitable for a small store or commercial store that accepts bitcoin and pays with the lightning network, but it is better to modify it a little to be a point of sale (a full node, hardware wallet, a screen to display the QR code and currency rates)
It's convenient and quick to set up. All you need is a few clicks and an Internet connection, waiting for syncing or the option to trust a third party.

Then a price of $600 or even 800 would be appropriate.

Personally, I see the device in its current form are useless.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 30, 2021, 04:23:20 AM
#16
I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.
Maybe you will, but I just gave you one example, you are using bunch of other stuff all day long, including Bitcoin Core and all other wallets, computers and phones.
Sure, any device connected with Bitcoin can be a magnet for abusers, but I can say that for anything else, your computer is magnet for viruses and malware, internet and governments are magnet for abuse but you still pay your taxes like a good boy  Smiley

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.
We are also taking a leap of faith when we are running Bitcoin Core, your phone and your computer, so we can just reduce the risks, unless we are security code experts with big brains.

It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.
Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.
Let's see how far you get.
Why do you purchase anything when in theory you can make anything your own, right? Wrong!
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 3139
September 29, 2021, 05:36:01 PM
#15
Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).
I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache.

I am running ElectrumX and its database currently takes up exactly 71 GB of space! That's... a lot. Is anyone here running a different implementation so that we could compare the numbers?

By the way, n0nce are you going to set up your own node any time soon?
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
September 29, 2021, 05:04:06 PM
#14
It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

But, like I said above it's the cost of having someone do it for you.
You can go and buy the parts yourself. And assemble it yourself. Or you can have someone else do it.

I look it as no different then having someone do work on my car that I can do myself.
I can get a set of good brake pads for $49 and install them myself. If I want the shop to do it it's going to cost me about $75 in labor.
So I can spend $49 for the front and $49 for the rear and do it myself or I can spend $250 and have someone else do it.
If I did not know how to do it, or did not have the tools, or the time, or.... then I would have to spend the $250.

Same here, I can build it, so can you but not everyone can. So why not let someone have a bit of profit.
And also, as I pointed out above. That is the price that all of the 'nodes in a box' are. Give or take a few dollars. So it seems to be a workable price point.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
September 29, 2021, 02:49:57 PM
#13
@NotATether, @n0nce, I think Umbrel's point is very clear: Buy 1TB of storage, sleep easy for the next half decade. If you gave me 500 GB of storage, I'd knew that if I run both main net and test net plus electrs plus any other extra application (such as related with LN), I'd start feeling that it may not last for more than two years with the abrupt increase of the chain's size.

I also remember installing myNode and being notified that I'd soon run out of free space while I was running it from a 1TB external disk. The applications these OSes use do eat a lot of space somehow.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
September 29, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
#12
The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

Testnet is only around 30GB large or so.
I would build any node with 1TB as well to be honest. I think Electrum needs like 20GB or so as cache. Blockchain, some indexes, Electrum and Lightning node software do get uncomfortably close to the 500GB limit of your disk and then you're going to tell a noob to replace the SSD in a year and reinstall everything by themselves?
The size difference of the SSD is also not what makes this device expensive anyway Grin As I showed you can build it DIY 1:1 the same for 240. But not everyone wants or can do it. If it turns out to be too expensive, they will have to reduce the price or go bust, so I would say: we will see, let the market decide Wink
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
September 29, 2021, 01:13:23 PM
#11
The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.

Why would an Electrum server need to weigh several dozens of GB in storage space? (At least that is what I think you are implying).

Testnet is only around 30GB large or so.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
September 29, 2021, 11:45:58 AM
#10
It looks cool, but I find it theft to sell the ability for one to run a Bitcoin & LN node with some extra (open source) goods for $429. I mean, come on, seriously? Is this how you'll encourage the average Joe interested in this field to run a node? That's a rip off.

It's quite expensive for a box that should just function as a bitcoin node and one would question why they needed to place a 1TB SSD inside the box when the blockchain isn't even half as large yet.
The applications it includes weight a lot. Take for instance the Electrum server. Not to mention that some people may want to try out the test net. You should cover those cases with at least 1TB of storage.
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
September 29, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
#9
Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.
I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.

It can also do someone else's job:
https://blogs.juniper.net/en-us/security/freshly-disclosed-vulnerability-cve-2021-20090-exploited-in-the-wild
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/home-and-office-routers-come-under-attack-by-china-state-hackers-france-warns/



As for the device in OP, it is in the same price range that Fulmo sells the pre-built raspiblitz for and mynodebtc sells their pre-built unit for.
So, yes it's a lot more then if you did it yourself, but that is kind of the point. You are not doing it yourself, so you pay more.

To some people it's worth it, to others it will not be.

As for the security aspect of it. If you are running any of the 'node in a box' nodes you are taking some form of a leap of faith that the people who put the packages together and made the installers / configurations / etc. have not gone evil. So, I really don't know home much more of a leap it is to get the hardware prebuilt from them too.

-Dave
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 29, 2021, 10:38:47 AM
#8
Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.
I don't have to trust my router though. If it doesn't do it's job, I'll notice.

Quote
This Umbrel software is all Open Source so you can check the code and assemble device yourself with Raspberry Pi
Let me put it this way: anything dedicated to Bitcoin usage is a magnet for abusers.

Quote
I would disagree that people don't need to have their own Bitcoin and LN node.
I'd argue I can use Bitcoin without my own node. Even though I have Bitcoin Core running, I don't use it for most of my transactions.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 29, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
#7
I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to Bitcoin, I already have a hard time trusting a hardware wallet, so the first thing that comes to mind is having to trust all the software in this black box.
Your router is also a black box and you use it every day.
This Umbrel software is all Open Source so you can check the code and assemble device yourself with Raspberry Pi, and I would disagree that people don't need to have their own Bitcoin and LN node.

it seems like a waste if it's only running a bitcoin node.
Yeah, it's a shame it's not printing money and running cartoons 24/7  Roll Eyes
Average smartphone is about the same price and you can have lot of fun with it and even use it as vibrator and self-tracking device.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
September 29, 2021, 10:27:01 AM
#6
It's quite expensive for a box that should just function as a bitcoin node and one would question why they needed to place a 1TB SSD inside the box when the blockchain isn't even half as large yet. If it were a box that could run other coins' nodes then I could understand this but it seems like a waste if it's only running a bitcoin node.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
September 29, 2021, 10:23:23 AM
#5
All you have to do it connect this device to your router with ethernet cable, turn the power on, and open umbrel.local.
I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to Bitcoin, I already have a hard time trusting a hardware wallet, so the first thing that comes to mind is having to trust all the software in this black box.

Quote
I know this is not for everyone
The "plug and play" design makes me think it's for beginners, but a beginner doesn't need their own nodes. It looks more like a cool gimmick for shops that accept Bitcoin.



It reminds me of The Internet.
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1234
September 29, 2021, 10:11:43 AM
#4
The power of the Raspberry Pi product and now it can be used as Bitcoin Machine to run your own node.

It's always good to use Raspberry Pi, actually, I want to share this.  
I'm using the Raspberry Pi3 version for my vending machines like e-loading system and also retailing my internet connection (called us, Vendo machine) to my neighborhood.  It's all good.

You can assemble your own Bitcoin Machine if you want with following this instructions:
https://thebitcoinmachines.com/setup/
Thank you for sharing this I might try to build on my own machine and study how to run a node, I have a little knowledge and maybe I can apply it.  

BTW, a heatsink is enough to cool down the machine?  Because all machines that I have built have a small fan over the heatsink.
In that case, I just want to build my own custom board, I think we have a big discount and save a little amount of money than purchasing a finished product if we have DIY.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 5950
not your keys, not your coins!
September 29, 2021, 09:28:54 AM
#3
Looks good! I think last I checked, a Raspberry Pi setup with the best model 4, a 1TB SSD and nice case, power supply and SD card reached almost 300, so with 430 there's not a big margin. I think newbies will love this, since they have less stuff to worry about (building and setting it up correctly). I'd say it's a fair price to have it all built and ready to go.

However, I'm not sure this is the first such solution.

For example, the MyNode is basically the exact same thing from what I can see.

Edit: It seems prices have gone down a bit Cheesy Adding around 20% of VAT, depending on country, and around €80 for an SSD brings you to around €240. So $430 is almost double. I know it's a mess with GBP prices, but I calculated everything in EUR and it's €240 in total. Importing something from the US cost in vat and import fees around the same amount that is 'saved' by exchanging USD for EUR, so it'll be €430 for the Bitcoin Machine. But I'm sure there's a market for it.


If you add the case price difference of around €60, and are fine with DIYing it, you can build it yourself then for around €300. I like that they offer this option.
copper member
Activity: 3010
Merit: 1284
https://linktr.ee/crwthopia
September 29, 2021, 09:23:14 AM
#2
I like the idea of running your node to verify and run it for yourself. What I like about it is that it's dedicated to that use. You won't have to depend on other users to run a node for you anymore, and you can verify that it's accurate data from the network. Be a support to the network. That's the best way to show that you are all in with BTC.

Definitely for the non-tech savvy people who don't have a server to run 24/7 but still want to support the network.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
September 29, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
#1
Non-technical users can now easily run their own Bitcoin and Lightning node with plug-and-play solution by Umbrel called The Bitcoin machine .
It has beautiful aluminum design with 1.8" display, Raspberry Pi4 with 8GB RAM and 1.6 Ghz quad-core CPU, Storage capacity 1TB or 2TB SSD and Umbrel OS.
All you have to do it connect this device to your router with ethernet cable, turn the power on, and open umbrel.local.

Price is $429 for 1TB SSD version and $559 for 2TB SSD version, and you can purchase it in five colors including orange. (Bitcoin is accepted for payment)

I know this is not for everyone, and yes you can get all this separate parts and run your own node much cheaper, or even use some old computer, but this is first easy solution for the masses.
Let's now check individual prices, Raspberry Pi4 with 8GB RAM is around $80, and 1 TB SSD drive is around $90 so I think that $429 is reasonable price for The Bitcoin Machine, and I expect other similar and cheaper options to show up in future.


https://thebitcoinmachines.com/

PS
Extra cools stuff is that sats/USD custom Bitcoin ticker is shown in display:
https://github.com/doidotech/TBM

You can assemble your own Bitcoin Machine if you want with following this instructions:
https://thebitcoinmachines.com/setup/



I am not affiliated with The Bitcoin Machine in any way.
Do your own research.
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