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Topic: The case of chargebacks - page 2. (Read 1121 times)

legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 4945
December 17, 2015, 07:31:06 AM
#6
One solution to this problem in the bitcoin world is multisig escrow.
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This involves to many people and to much in fees over time.
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When it comes to cash, someone made the comment, where is the protection? 
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People who are looking for that security are looking to use their credit card because they have that protection.
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Huh

So, using escrow with bitcoin "involves to many people and to much in fees", but using a credit card with cash doesn't?

If people are willing to involve multiple parties with credit cards (for cash), then why wouldn't they be willing to involve multiple parties with escrow (for bitcoins)?

If people are willing to accept the return policy with cash, why wouldn't they be willing to accept the return policy with bitcoins?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
December 17, 2015, 07:26:16 AM
#5
One solution to this problem in the bitcoin world is multisig escrow. An address is created with the buyer, the seller and a trusted third party having a private key. Two out of the three private keys can authorize a transaction. The buyer pays the sum to this multisig address. After the seller has verified the payment, he fulfills his part of the deal. If everything is fine, buyer and seller sign a transaction to transfer the money from to the seller. If the buyer or the seller is cheating, the escrower can sign a transaction together with the buyer or with the seller.

This involves to many people and to much in fees over time.  Buyers want to come in and make a purchase and leave, they do not want to wait around and they want security.  When it comes to cash, someone made the comment, where is the protection?  There is none other than the return policy of the store location and their business ethic.  People who are looking for that security are looking to use their credit card because they have that protection.  This protection is something that the credit card company pays for, not the government or the people, so this is in the works, but because of the slow progression and acceptance by the people, this will still take some time.  We have a group of designers working on something as such right now and we think it will work out for all parties involved.
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1277
December 17, 2015, 07:21:37 AM
#4
One solution to this problem in the bitcoin world is multisig escrow. An address is created with the buyer, the seller and a trusted third party having a private key. Two out of the three private keys can authorize a transaction. The buyer pays the sum to this multisig address. After the seller has verified the payment, he fulfills his part of the deal. If everything is fine, buyer and seller sign a transaction to transfer the money from to the seller. If the buyer or the seller is cheating, the escrower can sign a transaction together with the buyer or with the seller.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1000
December 17, 2015, 07:20:45 AM
#3
I don't think a feature like this would work with bitcoin, it would open it up to even more scams and who would decide if something is worthy of a chargeback or not as bitcoin has no governing body like Paypal which would have a team to decide if a chargeback is required or not.

legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 4945
December 17, 2015, 07:18:44 AM
#2
It's pretty clear now Bitcoin is the ultimate store of value in terms of being able to subvert capital controls and other forms of slavery, it's the best way to move money from A to B, and a bunch of other things.

But focusing on daily usage by the average joe: How does the chargeback problem get solved?
If someone buys something, and this something is broken and they want their money back, or something the lines, what guarantees that he will the money back since the transactions cannot be reversed? You could say this is a feature, but for a lot of average joes out there, this is otherworldly and they want to know that they can get their money back because this gives them peace of mind.

What to say to those that criticize the lack of chargebacks in Bitcoin beyond "it's a feature" which is rather subjective?
Is something in the works to solve this and actually securely allow chargebacks?

Bitcoin is a currency.  If you want a service that provides chargeback support, then there can be services built that use bitcoin and provide that just like there are for any currency.

Let me make the point clear with an example using a different currency...

If I walk into a store and purchase something that costs $15 with U.S. cash (hand the cashier a $20 bill, and they hand me $5 change), then how does the chargeback problem get solved?

U.S. cash is a currency with a built in physical payment system (where that payment system involves using your hand to pull the cash out of your pocket, your brain to count the appropriate number of paper notes, and then using your hand to put the paper currency into someone else's hand).

Bitcoin is a currency with a built in electronic payment system (where that payment system involves typing and clicking in a computer software called a "wallet", and the wallet choosing the appropriate outputs from the wallet to spend).

Neither of them have built in chargeback support.  But services (such as escrow, bank accounts, or credit) can be built using either currency (or both).
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
December 17, 2015, 07:11:14 AM
#1
It's pretty clear now Bitcoin is the ultimate store of value in terms of being able to subvert capital controls and other forms of slavery, it's the best way to move money from A to B, and a bunch of other things.

But focusing on daily usage by the average joe: How does the chargeback problem get solved?
If someone buys something, and this something is broken and they want their money back, or something the lines, what guarantees that he will the money back since the transactions cannot be reversed? You could say this is a feature, but for a lot of average joes out there, this is otherworldly and they want to know that they can get their money back because this gives them peace of mind.

What to say to those that criticize the lack of chargebacks in Bitcoin beyond "it's a feature" which is rather subjective?
Is something in the works to solve this and actually securely allow chargebacks?
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