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Topic: The catalyst that will drive BTC over $1000 - page 2. (Read 4810 times)

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
★☆★ 777Coin - The Exciting Bitco
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided

Yup...seriously doubt the Winklevoss ETF will result in significantly higher BTC prices given how fat a stack the twins are sitting on presently.  Perhaps another year or two down the road it will have some impact but these guys are bitcoin-fatty fat right now and can self-fund their own ETF for sometime to come in my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be  Huh ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.

YOU can't, but big players can in the form of baskets of many shares (basket size is defined somewhere in the filings, I forgot what it is).
bitcoins can be added or removed goto/from the etf in baskets as mentioned. Each basket Is equal to 10k bitcoins. You must purchase shares of one whole basket before you can actually get delivery of the bitcoins. If a whale wants to sell in bulk he can send 10k in one lump to be sold as a basket on the etf. How they actually get sold I don't know. I assume the sender of the basket would be given the number of shares that represent 1 basket so he could sell in his own time, but that's just a guess really.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided

The ETF may already have their coins, but if the price of the ETF rises above the market price of bitcoin then people (AP) will buy bitcoin on exchanges, so they can exchange their bitcoin for shares of COIN and sell the ETF on the market.
full member
Activity: 315
Merit: 103
The new hedge fund in Jersey will attract large accredited investors.  You can avoid capital gains taxes there.  The ETF will attract everyone else.


Which hedge fund going to invest in btc? I am not aware there is a place where investor can avoid capital gain tax.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
The new hedge fund in Jersey will attract large accredited investors.  You can avoid capital gains taxes there.  The ETF will attract everyone else.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


Well, it would be news for sure. But, many seem to think that a legitimate, SEC-approved fund would allow a lot of institutional money in. How much demand like that there is -- hard to say, but it could conceivably outrun their supply. Wall Street brings billions they say. Roll Eyes We'll see, anyway.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
People should not underestimate the effect of an ETF being available. Nobody thought GLD would take off like it did least of all Spyder. I expect the same to happen for BTC (on a lesser scale of course, we are starting from  a much lower position). I absolutely believe BTC has got at least two orders of magnitude of rapid growth ahead of it, probably 3.
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1009
Legen -wait for it- dary
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation?  The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold.  The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.


http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2014/05/01/own-the-gold-etf-you-dont-quite-own-gold/
https://www.blanchardgold.com/invest-in-gold/physical-gold/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/262084-gold-etfs-are-useful-but-be-aware-of-special-custody-risks

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.  And maybe the COIN ETF would have different auditing and custody procedures. I don't know.



It is hard to confirm since as far as I know there isn't a publicly known address, but they did buy some 100k+ BTC back in 2011-12 just for this ETF.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation?  The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold.  The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.


http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2014/05/01/own-the-gold-etf-you-dont-quite-own-gold/
https://www.blanchardgold.com/invest-in-gold/physical-gold/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/262084-gold-etfs-are-useful-but-be-aware-of-special-custody-risks

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.  And maybe the COIN ETF would have different auditing and custody procedures. I don't know.

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation?  The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold.  The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$

Bitcoin still have a lot of regulatory uncertainty. Why get into the mess and venture into something they are not familiar with?

NewEgg now accepts Bitcoin, quicker than I would have thought.  I'm guessing we'll likewise see one of those big players integrating BTC sooner than we think.
full member
Activity: 315
Merit: 103
One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$

Bitcoin still have a lot of regulatory uncertainty. Why get into the mess and venture into something they are not familiar with?
legendary
Activity: 1639
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin needs a catalyst but in won't be Winkle-ETF

Human struggle will be the catalyst, more than greed. Cyprus, Chinese fiinancial oppression, those are catalysts.

Whats next is complete social adoption by an entire struggling community that isn't the drug or porn community. That community will blaze the trail, make everyone in that community wildly wealthy and the rest of the planet will follow suit.

But you won't be selling your Bitcoin for cash, you will just pay off your house with a tenth of a Bitcoin because your bank will love to take your coins off your hands.

legendary
Activity: 2124
Merit: 1013
K-ing®
One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1010
Borsche
While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect.  Undecided


There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
For me will be regularization outside the taxes world of bitcoin in Europe or in USA, with the first regulated exchange open in USA or in Euro zone, or acceptance as payment method by big players. Or China starting to love bitcoin and unban it, what is less likely than Thaiti winning the next Word Cup only with clear sheets.


Can't see any others UNIQUE events starting a rally.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be  Huh ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.

YOU can't, but big players can in the form of baskets of many shares (basket size is defined somewhere in the filings, I forgot what it is).
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 500
Life is short, practice empathy in your life
But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be  Huh ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1009
Legen -wait for it- dary
But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be  Huh ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask
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