The catalyst that will drive BTC over $1000 - page 2.

ThomasCrowne

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Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

Yup...seriously doubt the Winklevoss ETF will result in significantly higher BTC prices given how fat a stack the twins are sitting on presently. Perhaps another year or two down the road it will have some impact but these guys are bitcoin-fatty fat right now and can self-fund their own ETF for sometime to come in my opinion.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: wachtwoord on July 10, 2014, 09:12:31 PM

Quote from: Dalmar on July 10, 2014, 09:02:13 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:59:49 PM

Quote from: houseo on July 10, 2014, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:20:49 PM

But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be Huh

ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.

YOU can't, but big players can in the form of baskets of many shares (basket size is defined somewhere in the filings, I forgot what it is).

bitcoins can be added or removed goto/from the etf in baskets as mentioned. Each basket Is equal to 10k bitcoins. You must purchase shares of one whole basket before you can actually get delivery of the bitcoins. If a whale wants to sell in bulk he can send 10k in one lump to be sold as a basket on the etf. How they actually get sold I don't know. I assume the sender of the basket would be given the number of shares that represent 1 basket so he could sell in his own time, but that's just a guess really.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

The ETF may already have their coins, but if the price of the ETF rises above the market price of bitcoin then people (AP) will buy bitcoin on exchanges, so they can exchange their bitcoin for shares of COIN and sell the ETF on the market.

boraf

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Quote from: Raystonn on July 12, 2014, 02:54:52 AM

The new hedge fund in Jersey will attract large accredited investors. You can avoid capital gains taxes there. The ETF will attract everyone else.

Which hedge fund going to invest in btc? I am not aware there is a place where investor can avoid capital gain tax.

Raystonn

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The new hedge fund in Jersey will attract large accredited investors. You can avoid capital gains taxes there. The ETF will attract everyone else.

wasserman99

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Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

Well, it would be news for sure. But, many seem to think that a legitimate, SEC-approved fund would allow a lot of institutional money in. How much demand like that there is -- hard to say, but it could conceivably outrun their supply. Wall Street brings billions they say. Roll Eyes

We'll see, anyway.

howardb

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People should not underestimate the effect of an ETF being available. Nobody thought GLD would take off like it did least of all Spyder. I expect the same to happen for BTC (on a lesser scale of course, we are starting from a much lower position). I absolutely believe BTC has got at least two orders of magnitude of rapid growth ahead of it, probably 3.

RyNinDaCleM

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Legen -wait for it- dary

Quote from: vuduchyld on July 11, 2014, 11:47:23 AM

Quote from: Raystonn on July 11, 2014, 11:26:30 AM

Quote from: vuduchyld on July 11, 2014, 11:15:19 AM

Quote from: piramida on July 11, 2014, 02:00:35 AM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation? The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold. The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.

http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2014/05/01/own-the-gold-etf-you-dont-quite-own-gold/
https://www.blanchardgold.com/invest-in-gold/physical-gold/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/262084-gold-etfs-are-useful-but-be-aware-of-special-custody-risks

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong. And maybe the COIN ETF would have different auditing and custody procedures. I don't know.

It is hard to confirm since as far as I know there isn't a publicly known address, but they did buy some 100k+ BTC back in 2011-12 just for this ETF.

vuduchyld

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Quote from: Raystonn on July 11, 2014, 11:26:30 AM

Quote from: vuduchyld on July 11, 2014, 11:15:19 AM

Quote from: piramida on July 11, 2014, 02:00:35 AM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation? The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold. The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.

http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2014/05/01/own-the-gold-etf-you-dont-quite-own-gold/
https://www.blanchardgold.com/invest-in-gold/physical-gold/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/262084-gold-etfs-are-useful-but-be-aware-of-special-custody-risks

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong. And maybe the COIN ETF would have different auditing and custody procedures. I don't know.

Raystonn

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Quote from: vuduchyld on July 11, 2014, 11:15:19 AM

Quote from: piramida on July 11, 2014, 02:00:35 AM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

Where did you get any of this misinformation? The gold ETF consists of gold derivative contracts that are backed by gold. The Bitcoin ETF is backed by 0.2 BTC per share.

vuduchyld

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Quote from: piramida on July 11, 2014, 02:00:35 AM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

For what it's worth, since the ETF isn't backed by actual BTC (any more than the gold ETF is backed by physical gold), I don't think they will be obligated to buy more bitcoin.

That's not to say that they won't choose to do it, but I'm not sure they will be forced to do it.

ThatDGuy

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Quote from: boraf on July 11, 2014, 09:08:21 AM

Quote from: mladen00 on July 11, 2014, 06:32:54 AM

One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$

Bitcoin still have a lot of regulatory uncertainty. Why get into the mess and venture into something they are not familiar with?

NewEgg now accepts Bitcoin, quicker than I would have thought. I'm guessing we'll likewise see one of those big players integrating BTC sooner than we think.

boraf

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Quote from: mladen00 on July 11, 2014, 06:32:54 AM

One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$

Bitcoin still have a lot of regulatory uncertainty. Why get into the mess and venture into something they are not familiar with?

DieJohnny

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Bitcoin needs a catalyst but in won't be Winkle-ETF

Human struggle will be the catalyst, more than greed. Cyprus, Chinese fiinancial oppression, those are catalysts.

Whats next is complete social adoption by an entire struggling community that isn't the drug or porn community. That community will blaze the trail, make everyone in that community wildly wealthy and the rest of the planet will follow suit.

But you won't be selling your Bitcoin for cash, you will just pay off your house with a tenth of a Bitcoin because your bank will love to take your coins off your hands.

mladen00

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K-ing®

One ''big player'' like google, fb, ebay and BTC will go + 10000$

piramida

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Borsche

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 10:28:27 AM

While it would be good news, the ETF already has their coins. Unless they plan on buying more to keep up with their own demand, I don't see how this would directly affect the price other than the news aspect. Undecided

There is no "plan" - as soon as they sell enough shares to cover their current assets, they will be obliged to buy more bitcoin. At market price. So even 200mil invested into that ETF would put a huge pressure on the price and send it to 4 digits - there's not that much coin for sale at these low prices,

Brewins

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For me will be regularization outside the taxes world of bitcoin in Europe or in USA, with the first regulated exchange open in USA or in Euro zone, or acceptance as payment method by big players. Or China starting to love bitcoin and unban it, what is less likely than Thaiti winning the next Word Cup only with clear sheets.

Can't see any others UNIQUE events starting a rally.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: Dalmar on July 10, 2014, 09:02:13 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:59:49 PM

Quote from: houseo on July 10, 2014, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:20:49 PM

But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be Huh

ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.

YOU can't, but big players can in the form of baskets of many shares (basket size is defined somewhere in the filings, I forgot what it is).

Dalmar

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Life is short, practice empathy in your life

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:59:49 PM

Quote from: houseo on July 10, 2014, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:20:49 PM

But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be Huh

ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

ETFs are basically paper shares, you can't take delivery on the underlying asset. It's not like futures contracts on comex.

RyNinDaCleM

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Activity: 2408

Merit: 1009

Legen -wait for it- dary

Quote from: houseo on July 10, 2014, 08:47:16 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on July 10, 2014, 08:20:49 PM

But will investors be able to take physical (for lack of better terms) delivery of the actual coins? I haven't seen anywhere that this was mentioned before. If not, then they are effectively trading paper that is merely backed by Bitcoin.

isn't that how gold etfs work? and all etfs for that matter.

It could be Huh

ETF's are one thing I've never traded. So I don't know. That's why I ask

Topic: The catalyst that will drive BTC over $1000 - page 2. (Read 4817 times)