Topic: The correction and recovery in a nutshell. - page 3. (Read 5598 times)

In Bitcoin, I have missed the boat thus far (although I have still made thousands), despite being down at the harbour in very good time, seeing the boat and telling everyone, anyone riding that boat could be in for a great trip.

In life in general however, I done very well. Looking back, I can't honestly say that the way things have all fallen into place was down to my own personal brilliance or intelligence....twas all just fucking luck. Thing is, I am smart and self aware enough to know this. But other people, people with a weakness for padding up their own egos, need to somehow attribute anything good they have got as being a result of something inherently great about themselves.

You are not great and I can tell by the way you communicate that you are not even that smart. Lucky? Most definitely.

For obvious reasons, this forum is full of fkn idiots like yourself who have gotten seriously lucky, resulting in a whole lot of people around this place with a hyper inflated sense of self significance. It is enough to make me wish that Bitcoins goes down in flames (and it definitely will one day within our lifetimes and probably a lot sooner than that) just to see all you guys getting wiped out.....but I won't wish that cos I will probably be riding on it when it does.

Yeah, that's it. It's gotta be luck. The one thing that that is common among all losers is a victim mentality. They were unlucky. Someone was out to get them. It's never their fault they are losers.

What is a strategic holder?

Someone who is too stupid to trade Bitcoin and turn a profit, but through phenomenal luck has amassed great riches?

Is a 'strategic holder' the same sort of person who will likely hold onto his Bitcoins as they one day turn to dust, too stupid to do anything else with them?

Is a 'strategic holder' the Bitcoin equivalent of 'Silver Stacker' in the precious metals investing community. They did quite well for a while didn't they, believing in all their circle jerk silver propaganda stories, until one day it stopped working out so well. You reckon Bitcoinland is going to be immune from that?

Actually, I'm quite happy with your efforts, felix.  I've concluded that your paranoid theories are being promulgated to shake weak hands, in order to make the market less volatile and more robust, in the manner of an innoculation against a life-threatening virus.  Indeed it's not just you, but an entire conspiratorial army of ersatz bears who spread FUD in order to prevent a sequence of increasingly frequent blow-off tops from leading to a finite-time singularity prematurely.  For that matter, even if I knew without a shred of doubt that you honestly believed in your entire parade of boogey-men, I would still be convinced that you were doing strategic holders exactly that service, albiet unwittingly.  So... thank you.

How many Bitcoins do you own?

You may be quite happy with the efforts being made to uphold the price as it protects the nominal value of your wealth. You may also like to think that this is all being done for the long term strength of the Bitcoin market because again, that would be all kind of beneficial to the long term nominal value of your Bitcoin wealth. However, what if this price fixing was part of a Dunkirk evacuation operation allowing whales to get a certain amount of Bitcoin into cash at artificially high prices? Been a whole lot of cashing out recently. I seen an 800 BTC order knocking the Stamp price down $4. How much do you think the price would be knocked down if you or I tried to offload 800 BTC in one order. $50, $75, probably more?

The rules are: You can buy and sell at the price someone else will agree to. That's all of the rules. Rants about cheating and rigging just look silly.

As for why a whale would want to spend money to support the price, it might be a simple matter of long term adoption. If the price falls to a third or a tenth or something similarly perverse, as some people dream of, bitcoin is not going to see the same level of adoption as it otherwise would. The price itself doesn't matter if you get the same long term ROI at $1000 as you would at $300.

Obviously when you are playing a game and you discover that the rules to the game aren't quite as they seem, it causes a bit of disgruntlement. A period of mental adjustment is required to absorb that cheating and manipulation is part of the rules.

The manipulation is 'bad' because it is only done in the interest of the manipulator. The manipulation is not my friend and only benefits me if I can align my bets with the manipulators desires. Since I have no charts or statistical indicators that provide me with insight into  the workings of the manipulators heads, this is easier said than done. Therefore, it is good to have an idea of what the policy is. Had I knew, what I now know, then I would have came out my short at the $765 support as I would have known that this would not be allowed to be broken, no matter what.

I am not whinging about my inability to predict the future.

I am making an observation of forces at work in the market. I have tried to keep the rationalising to a minimum because I really don't know 'why' these forces are at work but I do know that they are present.

Also, I would just like to point out that I netted over $1000 overall for that evenings/nights trading. So I did 'win'....just not as much as I would have liked.
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So you don't know why they are at work but you know that they are "bad" forces, right? That makes sense 

and whining that you did win, but not as much as you wanted, makes you look even worse than if you had lost. 

I am not whinging about my inability to predict the future.

I am making an observation of forces at work in the market. I have tried to keep the rationalising to a minimum because I really don't know 'why' these forces are at work but I do know that they are present. I would consider that being aware of the existence of these hidden hands is quite important for anyone trading Bitcoin.

Also, I would just like to point out that I netted over $1000 overall for that evenings/nights trading. So I did 'win'....just not as much as I would have liked.

Duuuude. Your inability to predict the future is not evidence of a grand conspiracy. Markets always act to take your money. It's the sum total of thousands of actors, all wanting to maximize profit and minimize loss.  The casino is rigged! It's the ancient cry of the loser.  Show some dignity and suffer in silence. We all take hits and make wrong calls. Ride it out, cut your losses, double down or go home. Your conspiracy theory isn't original or entertaining. Or maybe it is entertaining and I just have an underdeveloped sense of schadenfreude.

You know,if I believed that the Bitcoin market is being held up by a society of benevolent market manipulators, who really believe that they are doing what they are doing for the greater good of mankind, then I would happily go long. Not just to make money but because I am like that. Problem is that I don't think this. I think that the Bitcoin market price is being held up by a society of malevolent sharks and who knows what interests they have mind but they certainly don't have my interests at heart. I wouldn't be surprised if Bitcoin is artificially supported up until a certain point in time when a certain objective is achieved, and then that support is either removed, or the manipulators actually make moves to crash it themselves......

.....if big Wall St capital wants in on Bitcoin, they are going to take their positions as cheaply as possible.

In the meantime, I don't know whether I can short Bitcoin cos I don't know what price targets the whales are looking to maintain and I can't go long cos if this artificial support is removed, then Bitcoin crashes through the floor boards because it is still wildly over extended without the fairy godmothers floating about working their magic to keep the thing up.


Those large sell offs aren't damaging the spot price. The large buys have totally saved the Bitcoin market price from freefall. The sell-offs are possibly the whales liquidising their market intervention purchases. I have watched the Bitcoin markets like a guard hound the past few days (getting addicted to it) and I have a pretty good sense of the market management policy in place on the USD exchanges.

For the past few hours the exact opposite has been happening.  Sellers appear on BFX and hold the price down on Bitstamp.  Fact is, people buy and sell coins.  Sometimes big buyers want to buy.  Sometimes big sellers want to sell.  Why do you get your knickers in a twist?  Fat lot you're going to do about it by whingeing.

 

We're trying not to spook the merchants that are the key to wider adoption. If this interferes with your day-trading, so be it. You aligned your interests against the greater good of the community, so seems kind of a douche move to bitch about it now. Hell, you might even get your way, But I'll be fighting it. It's not manipulation. It's betting on Bitcoin's future. Workin' pretty good for me so far.

I agree we are on a downtrend but it is a slow one like May 2013 and there are going to be traders at every step of the way trying to play the local bottoms in order to make profit. There are also investors who might actually think these are good prices (this is bitcoin after all and people are very bullish, especially after hearing news like Tiger Direct $250K). But mostly it is traders and bots with these orders with the sole purpose of taking a profit in the next 5 minutes - 5 days. Once again bitcoin is now a 10 billion dollar market that saw a 4000% gain in 2013. You are over-guaging these amounts of money. There are now a lot of wealthy people willing to gamble large amounts of money at the slightest sign of a profit and there is a lot of liquidity to support them. During the crashes in December, I myself leveraged as much as 400btc at the bottoms. I actually thought it was going lower eventually but I saw a short term opportunity to make a huge profit. And I am a "bear"... now imagine the bulls.

It´s costs nothing more than some trading fees if the buyer buys his own asks to enleash some bullish sentiment. 5 -10$ above there a few 25-50 BTC asks split, waitin to be bought by "real" buyers. A few minutes later all bids that have been build in the meantime get dumped 

It has happened again just then. Bitcoin approaches a bottom, which if breached, would be bearish as hell, only for a 120 BTC order to come out of knowhere and prevent Bitcoin dropping in into the $760s, then a couple of minutes later, two further single 120 BTC purchases boot Bitcoin back up to 780s.

These are large purchases, from just one individual or not, leveraged or not, on the face of things they do not make financial sense. These entitities are losing money in order to support a higher Bitcoin price and for what reason, god only knows....although, I suppose that the cost of these rescue buy-outs can be recooperated by dumping into the more positive market sentiment that results from Bitcoin bouncing up and away from vital support zones.

Very hard market to trade. The charts look bearish as hell, but if Bitcoin has a fairy godmother(s) floating around (at least for the time being), what the charts say doesn't really matter for a day-trader. Still a long way off from the point where I feel that I would become an investor. For that, I am wanting 2014's version of September 2013 and that just aint now, despite all the ludicrous claims of $800 being 'cheap bitcoins'.

Your flaw is assuming there is only one player or only a few players. $140K and $250K orders are not that much on a leveraged trading platform now that all the bitcoiners have become rich in 2013. What you see is dozens of different players all playing a game and anticipating eachother's movements. They all see a likely location where a local bottom will occur and some of them decide that it would be wisest to buy the ask walls now. If they don't do it then the other players will buy them first and they will end up eating slippage at a higher price. I don't think any one player even thinks they have the capability to affect the outcome of the market, unless their name is Loaded or something.

I've been dollar cost averaging once a week for the last month. I bought 3x yesterday and haven't sold any in the last 2 months. lol

Fortunatly for us they can not just print bitcoins to naked short. They have to buy them or lend them withc severly limits their manipulation.