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Topic: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency - page 2. (Read 2854 times)

Blazr
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
#26
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 11:09:22 AM
So, if it is released by Mike it can't be an altcoin project

Are you serious? thats not what I said at all.  Read my other posts, I'm basically just repeating myself here. In fact I personally think that Mike Hearn is untrustworthy because I think he has an agenda, I strongly disagree with his opnion on a number of topics and it doesn't help that he has a colorful past. I don't think he is involved in Bitcoin for altruistic reasons.

I think that all clients that accept the Bitcoin currency should be allowed to be discussed on bitcointalk and that the staff should not arbitrarily decide which clients are allowed as that can cause censorship.

It should not matter if that client supports other currencies too, as some "multicoin" clients too and also some web wallets like coinbase that allow you to accept Bitcoin and US dollars.

I also think that it should not matter if the client plans to drop support for Bitcoin at a later date, when the time comes we can move threads to the altcoin section then.

I also think that topics that talk about clients that only accept other currencies are clearly offtopic and belong in altcoin/trash as appropriate.
becoin
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 11:09:22 AM
#25
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
Because bitcoin XT is not an altcoin project. It was released a long time ago - before the blocksize debate - by Mike Hearn in order to release some extra features he had trouble getting added to Bitcoin Core.
I know Mike. Poor devil. His ego is bigger than the universe.

So, if it is released by Mike it can't be an altcoin project and should be allowed to post everywhere on bitcointalk because nobody is willing to post on bitcoinxttalk. Any other arguments?
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:37:33 AM
#24
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 10:28:33 AM
Bitcoin XT is an altcoin project. This is why it is allowed to post only on the altcoin section. It is completely in line with the moderation policy so far. Why would want to be an exception?

Because bitcoin XT is not an altcoin project. It was released a long time ago - before the blocksize debate - by Mike Hearn in order to release some extra features he had trouble getting added to Bitcoin Core.

It was and still is used by many people for purposes other than changing the blocksize. It wasn't until later when the blocksize limit debate came around that Mike Hearn got the idea of using this client to change the blocksize limit.

It most definitely is a Bitcoin client right now, it's not fair to censor it. Maybe if we didn't censor it then people would understand the difference between bitcoin core and bitcoin XT better. I honestly think much less people would be running it if they had access to more information. Most of the people I talked to who are running it are doing so because they have been misinformed about things. Note that I'm tlaking about the client (software) here and not the currency itself. I would think that topics mainly about the currency go in altcoin, but a post by someone saying they switched their Bitcoin server from Bitcoin Core to XT should be allowed, at least until XT changes to another currency, if it ever does.
shorena
copper member
Activity: 1498
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No I dont escrow anymore.
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:36:49 AM
#23
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-bitcointalk-a-place-of-free-and-open-discussion-1148654
becoin
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:28:33 AM
#22
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 10:10:17 AM
I agree, but I feel strongly about censorship and I think having a fair moderation policy is very important. We don't censor obvious scams around here.
Bitcoin XT is an altcoin project. This is why it is allowed to post only on the altcoin section. It is completely in line with the moderation policy so far. Why would want to be an exception?
meono
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:22:52 AM
#21
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 09:52:28 AM
Quote from: meono on August 14, 2015, 09:37:22 AM
My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork

I'm not going to argue with you because you are just a troll looking for a reaction and I actually knew you would post in this thread when I replied to you in that other thread. I'll just add you to my ignore list instead

Did you also ignore the fact that i pointed out your stupidity in your "analogy". It tells how much you understand the topic we're discussing.

Oh right, its simpler to call me a troll then. Gotta be hard to admit our stupidity sometimes, i understand.
meono
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Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
#20
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 09:28:14 AM
All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin.
No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.

LOL if its called Bitcoin 0.12 would that make you feel better?

The blocksize increase can be rolled out from bitcoin core dev and essentially fork the blockchain too? What happens to little guys that dont like it? Oh right... they just have to right?

We've done this before, dont spin this around this time.
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 10:10:17 AM
#19
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.

I agree, but I feel strongly about censorship and I think having a fair moderation policy is very important. We don't censor obvious scams around here. Being misleading isn't a good enough reason to put it in the altcoin section IMO. It's also very difficult to say it is misleading when it is a fully transparent open source project, it's only misleading to those not well informed.
becoin
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
#18
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 09:28:14 AM
All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin.
No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 09:52:28 AM
#17
Quote from: meono on August 14, 2015, 09:37:22 AM
My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork

No thats not why its an altcoin.

When bitcoin-Xt triggers and switches to another currency, the original bitcoin blockchain will exist with a hashrate of around 25% and everyone running bitcoin core will still be using it (assuming the devs of bitcoin core don't also decide to switch to XT, which is one scenario the devs of XT are hoping for). Not only that but it will still be  reasonably safe to use too for a peroid afterwards because as theymos mentioned in another post there are very little things that could attack 25% of the hashrate of the bitcoin network besides the bitcoin-Xt network.

I'm not going to argue with you because you are just a troll looking for a reaction and I actually knew you would post in this thread when I replied to you in that other thread. I'll just add you to my ignore list instead
meono
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 09:37:22 AM
#16
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 09:28:14 AM
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 09:16:50 AM
But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

Well that would almost certainly kill bitcoin-XT, (even 75% is stupidly risky, the very idea of forking this way is stupidly risky). but that figure is irrelevant. All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin. Any client could change their currency at anytime if the developers of it decided, electrum, bitcoin core, armory. We don't know, maybe tomorrow electrum could switch to litecoin, who knows its certainly possible but highly unlikely. Much in the same way bitcoin-XT will switch if they hit 75%, its still a maybe it's highly possible they wont. You see what I'm saying? this is the actual censorship that is going on.

Stop saying its like Electrum decide to switch to Litecoin..... It makes you look stupid.

Because that just means Electrum switch user base/network. It does not fork the network its on right now thus split the user base of the current network.

See the difference?

I dont support censorship, but idiots like you who doesnt undertand and try to argue make them sound like they have a good reason for the censhorship.


My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork .

They're running out of argument because they dont like the fact hat this fork is NOT lead by Bitcoin core Devs. Simple as that.
Blazr
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 09:28:14 AM
#15
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 09:16:50 AM
But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

Well that would almost certainly kill bitcoin-XT, (even 75% is stupidly risky, the very idea of forking this way is stupidly risky). but that figure is irrelevant. All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin. Any client could change their currency at anytime if the developers of it decided, electrum, bitcoin core, armory. We don't know, maybe tomorrow electrum could switch to litecoin, who knows its certainly possible but highly unlikely. Much in the same way bitcoin-XT will switch if they hit 75%, its still a maybe it's highly possible they wont. You see what I'm saying? this is the actual censorship that is going on.
becoin
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 09:16:50 AM
#14
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
Bitcoin-XT will NOT switch to another currency if it does not hit its target of 75% of miners.
But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
#13
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:53:00 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:46:50 AM
The fact that it may will switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO.
It does matter now, right?

You are wrong, bitcoin-xt MAY switch to another currency.

Bitcoin-XT will NOT switch to another currency if it does not hit its target of 75% of miners. Bitcoin-XT has been around for years, it is a Bitcoin client just like any others, it has some extra features not in Bitcoin Core and many people ran it for specific purposes. If it doesn't hit 75% then it will wont switch to another currency and continue to be used by many as a normal Bitcoin client.
becoin
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Activity: 3431
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Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:53:00 AM
#12
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:46:50 AM
The fact that it may will switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO.
It does matter now, right?
Quickseller
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:47:09 AM
#11
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:44:50 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:04:31 AM

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin
They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.
They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!
Well the XT client is not being used for any altcoin right now. Currently it is broadcasting Bitcoin transactions and is being used with and on the Bitcoin network.
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:46:50 AM
#10
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:44:50 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:04:31 AM

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin
They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.
They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!

I know it isn't. But I am talking about this Bitcoin client you can download called Bitcoin-XT. Not the currency that will exist when many people are running this client. Because as I said, it is a Bitcoin client right now taht works the same as any other. The fact that it may switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO. Bitcoin-XT has been around for a long time, before the currency was ever planned. If it never achieves the 75% trigger, then it will likely stay a Bitcoin client forever and many people will likely still run it because it does have some other technical features that some people use for stuff.
becoin
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Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:44:50 AM
#9
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:04:31 AM

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin
They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.
They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!
redsn0w
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#Free market
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:37:52 AM
#8
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:04:31 AM

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin
They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? beucase I can go and download the Bitcoin-Xt client and use it with Bitcoin Core clients, so right now it obviously isn't an altcoin, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other.

It seems that here the problem is another one, the 'money'.
Blazr
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1006
Re: the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency
August 14, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
#7
Quote from: becoin on August 14, 2015, 08:33:56 AM
Quote from: Blazr on August 14, 2015, 08:04:31 AM

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin
They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

Just to note by they way that my opinion is that I am for larger blocks (or a abolition of a blocksize limit altogether). However I am totally against Bitcoin-XT and they way certain developers are trying to change the blocksize. People are being mislead into believing Bitcoin-XT is different from any other altcoin such as litecoin, it really isn't different. I also think that they should remove the "bitcoin" part from the name as this is a huge part of the confusion. Mark Karpeles used to own the trademark for the term "Bitcoin" in the US I believe, maybe he should have his lawyers look into the misuse of this trademark.
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