Topic: The due: please think before supporting or opposing a scam accusation (Read 494 times)

Unlike value bet --that's explained above-- group bets and betting syndicate are actually considered as a violation by many casinos and explicitly stated as forbidden on their ToS. Snippets of those rule are as below,

Isn't that what's called arbitrage betting? I've never done it but I feel like it's a legit way of minimizing potential losses.
What you've said is more or less how I see the situation.

Let's say this is a group, as long as they all go through KYC that proves each account is owned by a different person and they simply communicate to place bets together, that's being smart, not cheating.

As for accusations, I usually try to check how the casino responds to the problem. Usually the casino tries to take user's money and delay things for as long as possible, which is like taking revenge on the player. That's completely unprofessional behavior presented by the casino.

That’s the thing. You cannot and should not make gambling your job. It is the only way you can win means it is the only way the casinos lose money. Casinos want to make money in the long run and you want the same thing. Both of you cannot coexist. One of you should stop and I can assure you it won’t be the casinos.

Take that any way you like.

You simply cannot win in the long run. Even if you beat math, you’ll lose to ToS. There is a reason why the casinos ban stuff like arbitrage betting, ev betting etc. they make them lose money.

You can get lucky and win every once in a while.

The casinos are always lucky in the grand scheme of things. Being lucky is their job.

In regards to BC's "hypocrisy", I can probably explain this part based on what casino representatives explained to me. Basically, it goes in line with what BGC said, regarding sportsbook providers and how they tagged people.

On some cases, casinos [though not all] are actually don't have issue with value bettor, that's probably why BC have that page on their academy [I didn't glance at that link and take your word for it], but from time to time, their sportsbook provider detected some abusive behavior and asked the casino to hold the winning.

We are not strictly speaking about value betting, there are numerous cases of bets being held for investigation for several reasons, like arbing, limitation circumvention, odds manipulation, you name it. On some of these cases, as it is well known, it's the provider who ask for that investigation, not the casino's own initiative.

Going back to the value betting and BC [or other casinos], most of the time, if the violation is not too severe [let's say they're just value betting and not multi-acc-ing] or on what they can tolerate, they'll just let the case go. Which I shall assume means they're paying those users from their own pocket, given the provider will not pay the winning.

This should explains [actually, more to strengthen what BGC said] why GekkeBelg got flagged numerous times across platform, because the providers have his data, he's been marked by the providers.

So, with above paragraphs as an addition, since you brushed it on your last sentence, I'll repeat my previous reflection, does GekkeBelg innocent? I'll stay with my previous answer: no.

I believe he's well versed on casino and how they works. I mean, IIRC he claimed he's been playing on hundred of sportbook? He certainly more or less realized how things work with sportsbook and their provider, and he still utilize this strategy, knowing those casinos are paying him from their own pocket.

So, is he wrong? No. But is he innocent? Also no.

Sorry, my bad. My last post was supposed to be an explanation for the other readers why value betting isn't something bad.
Why did I mention BC.Game so much? It's just random luck. First I pointed out that GekkeBelg made a mistake against them. Then I found their 'betting academy' and wanted to point out the hypocrisy of sportbooks.

They ended up paying GekkeBelg, even though they didn't have to(According to their TOS).


Overall I think we are on the same page.
I would say yes, but obviously I'm very biased.

I'll invite you to read my posts again, carefully, and return here once you did.


BC? Why BC? GekkeBelg opened scam accusations across many platforms. The most recent one, of which prompt BGC to finally do his investigation, was with coins.game. People are talking in general here, and you're focusing on... BC? Because he didn't get refund on that case, or for what reason is it does BC specifically being mentioned over and over?

I analyzed his bets and compared the odds. The pattern is the same every time.
Soft
Sharper
These types of edges are small, but it's enough to profit in the long run.

He's a live value bettor, and there's nothing wrong with that. The goal of sportsbetting is to turn a profit. As long as he didn't break the rules, the sportsbook should honor his bets.
The funniest thing is that Bc.Game is coaching people on how to value bet:
https://betting.bc.game/betting-academy/types-of-bets/value-bets

1. Teach value betting. 2. Void all the value bets. IQ 200

These kinds of rules should be a massive red flag to all the BC.Game customers. You don't want to win a 30k$ parlay on the site that has every right to void your bet.

There are a lot of reasons why sportsbooks don't add rules about value betting. It would be incredibly off-putting for all the customers(Even the losers) and in a lot of cases, it's almost impossible to tell if somebody is value betting.

Okay, thank you for the... clarification. Where do you get or implied it from? A quick search on GekkeBelg's post seems bear zero result of him talking about this specific technic, so I think he doesn't make it public.


And determine the best platform to place the bets according to those comparison. Thus, value betting.


Now, that is the good practice of using ToS from casino's side. That thing works both ways.


Please rephrase.

I mentioned his strategy before, it's called the top down method.
The Top Down Method is when you identify a sharp line from a sportsbook and consider that your “source of truth.” You then pick off advantageous bets at other sportsbooks based on that source of truth.

That's it, there's nothing fancy about it. No arbitrage betting, no syndicate betting. Just some guy comparing odds.

Technically he messed up against BC.Game, because they are freerolling all of their customers: 3.3 Sportsbook platform reserves the right to refuse, restrict, cancel or limit any bet. That's why he lost his AskGamblers case against Bc.Game.

What about the losers who wrongly think that they are value betting? Most sportsbettors think they have an edge but in reality only 2% win.
What if I don't know if I have an edge or not? It's incredibly hard to define what exactly is a valuebet, especially if you bet on smaller markets.

Umm... two scammers... who? On the link you provided, it's rather clear that --coming from the seemingly impaired and dented logic of yours-- the scammer is blackjack.fun. But here, on this thread? Who exactly do you refer as a scammer that BGC defended? GekkeBelg? The casino? Which casino?

---

Now, regarding GekkeBelg, I've been silent and observing this thread from a corner for quite some time. I personally think this is unfair for BGC, as I am the one who asked him a follow-up about his investigation and [I believe] I made him publish this thread.

To lay it out in the open, I am in a very tight position.

As stated on my last [and only] post here, I reached to GekkeBelg and exchanged one or two PMs regarding this [and his absence from this thread]. I am not sure how much liberty I have to brush this topic without violating the confidentiality entailed a PM, how much can I say without him considering me violating the private nature of the information he gave me, and I've been mulling over the best approach to address this issue ever since.

So I think the best approach will be to disregard everything and start new.

I think, I can safely say that GekkeBelg is a value bettor, he made it known on one occasion,


though on other [earlier] cases, he denied such practice


Do casinos prohibit this strategy? Well, as several users already mentioned here, no. At least not those who had conflict with GekkeBelg. I take a quick stroll on those casinos and can't find value betting on their ToS or sports-rules [I am currently reaching some casinos' representatives to get a better understanding of their view on this, just to be sure] with exception of WinTomato who explicitly describe they prohibit this strategy.

Does that automatically translates that GekkeBelg is, WinTomato aside, innocent here? I say, "no".

As many people know [at least those who has the privilege to experience adulthood], we live in the massive gray, it is not a simple yes or no, he's wrong so she's right, there are many shades in between, and this is where GekkeBelg resides.

He had/has experience with casinos. Plural. He probably experimented on them, see who tolerate his strategy and who won't; looking for those who will limit him, those who will refund his money and lock the door behind his back, and those who take a bold action and refuses his winning.

It's suffice to say he understand that, although it is not against rules, casinos are very much against this practice. And he pushed his luck by trying every casino, hopping from one to another. There even a slight probability that he weaponized it, upon learning that casinos are prohibiting the practice from WinTomato [the one who happen to have the rule on their ToS], he made sure to check every casinos he played doesn't specify this on their ToS, so when it's used against him, his situation is bulletproof.

Is that wrong? Umm, I'll say that's actually clever and that's how ToS should be used.

But are those ethical and acceptable? Well, I'll leave this to every individual to decide.

I personally think that this thread has served its purpose, to inform us that there is more than meet the eye with GekkeBelg. He's sharp and knows his way around. So next case with him, [note to self] it's probably a good idea to touch it with one-meter-long pole and a healthy pinch of salt.

Unless... if LM is in the mood of spilling some tea? Beans, perhaps? I am readying my pen and notebook. LOL.

I thought I did not see right when I saw your Thread Title

>please think before supporting or opposing a scam accusation<

How comes that you are supporting/defending 2 Scammers? Are you for real?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63916884

Guys you can spare any aggressive attacks or foul language. This is a serious discussion and a very good title but sadly created by the wrong one

answering those bunch of signature spammers is pointless . if you notice each one of them wearing a signature of a Casino.  So ofcourse they want to defend the Casinos.
they even got offended since their source of income threatned.  i dont even know the guy they talking about
btw they think we are the same 

Genius, they also have the same odds. How are you supposed to arbitrage bet on Roobet and BC.Game if they have the same odds(Both use Betby as their provider)?

By the way, all of this talk about arbitrage betting is pointless because GekkeBelg was top-down betting.

Villainizing people who don't agree with you? If you can't handle criticism you shouldn't post about topics you don't understand.

Are you the third one after Poika5 and Martingaleboy? Do you see the topic I created makes more sense now?

Do you know who provides the odds to sportsbook? It's odd providers. There are not many odd providers considering the number of sportsbook exists. Many sportsbook have common odd providers and those odd providers store all information of the gamblers who gamble in their clients platforms. Not all are speculation as you think.

It's funny how the members who wearing Casinos signatures is the only ones agree with the OP. 
It's like they are worrying about losing the only source of income they have.
Replying to each other's that's really funny and sad for the bitcointalk.
Anybody who doesn't agree. Or anybody who doesn't get paid by the casinos is an alt.  What a funny discussion. . . .

I got such a proof (not multiple bitcointalk but multiple casino accounts) regarding Gekkebelg from one casino but unfortunately, I was asked to keep the proof secret. And whenever I have read his scam accusations, I had the same feeling that he tries to manipulate discussions with alt account.

On top, he is a proven liar to me. Once he sent me a DM regarding shuffle. I got the notification of his DM, I have seen the message from the notification bar. After a few hours, I received a DM from another telegram user with almost same query. I instantly checked GekkeBelg telegram but found that he deleted the DM and was active 1/2 minutes ago. The new telegram user was also looking for Noah's telegram (shuffle founder). GekkeBelg, from his new telegram, asked me what was his name showing on telegram because he never used telegram and he is new etc etc lol.

And after a discussion with Noah, I learned that GekkeBelg was abusing shuffle as well.

If you take a look at most of all 3 of you guys post histories, it's mostly scam accusations. If I went through and checked I'm sure that some of them are on the same sites around the same times. My speculation holds a little more water than your silly deflection. You don't have to agree and you're free to defend yourself if you feel you need to, but at least show some sort of intelligence if you expect me to reply anymore.

Maybe you and BitcoinGirl are the same person? I mean, you are both equally clueless about this topic. Obviously I'm just speculating.


Sorry, I'm clearly not very intelligent, my time is worth a lot of money and I'm arguing with some guy who thinks that sportsbettors should try to lose. Maybe on Monday I will go to kindergarten and start having arguments with 4-year-olds, who knows?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Maybe they are all part of the same group so they don't all 3 need to respond? Obviously I'm just speculating.

When your winning does not question, when you are gambling without making group, when you are not doing arbitrage betting, when you are not taking advantage of technical fault then no one is going to question your winnings. Even one or two misuse in lifetime is fine but as long as you create an identical fingerprint in your gambling abuse then you will be caught. The sportsbook will limit you, suspend your account. They will enforce everything according to their terms to get rid of you. It's fair because they are running a business and you are going there with the only intention to damage their business.

I was expecting a response, perhaps response with anger from GekkeBelg but he seems gone or have no idea about the topic but it seems you and Martingaleboy so far are doing the job for him.