The economics of war. How does this affect us all especially us in crypto?

DrBeer

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Quote from: killerfrost on December 24, 2023, 11:09:33 AM

Why? Because the core principles of crypto – decentralization, transparency, and resilience – are rock solid. Unlike traditional financial systems, where one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, crypto spreads the risk like butter on toast. No single entity, no single server, can control the entire network. Even if individual coins take a hit, the foundation of digital wealth, the tech that makes it tick, has proven it can weather the storm.

You have listed the technological advantages of a mutual payment system, for a society that is interested and ready for such a model. BUT... The problem is that the advantages of cryptocurrency are also its disadvantages.

Now let's return to the issue of war, which I can judge quite objectively, since in my country there is a direct war, the loss of cryptocurrencies in such a situation is a very real picture. Sorry the example is very harsh, but this is our reality in Ukraine. A person was sitting at home, went to the store, a missile launched by Russian terrorists arrives in a residential neighborhood, a person dies on the street - that's it, the person is gone, and there is no access to his crypto-assets. In this situation, in relation to fiat, whether it is a bundle of money or a credit card, his relatives (children, wife) can get access to them. Crypto-assets - never again.
The situation is different - your city is surrounded or captured by Russian terrorists - no communication, laptops, cell phones are confiscated.... You have to eat somehow, you have to buy food with something. How can cryptocurrencies help you here if you don't have access to them? Okay. You find Starlink, you connect. И ? Best case scenario, you withdraw the money to a bank card. But in an occupied city, Russian invaders destroyed and looted banks, destroyed ATMs ...
In a word - crypto-assets in such a difficult situation - not the best financial assistant.

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Quote from: killerfrost on December 24, 2023, 11:09:33 AM

Why? Because the core principles of crypto – decentralization, transparency, and resilience – are rock solid. Unlike traditional financial systems, where one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, crypto spreads the risk like butter on toast. No single entity, no single server, can control the entire network. Even if individual coins take a hit, the foundation of digital wealth, the tech that makes it tick, has proven it can weather the storm.

It used to be more like the truth than it is now. It is precisely these principles that are being violated now, they are distorted and become not an advantage, but presented as a flaw that needs to be fought. Transparency becomes the basis for restrictions and blocking, to the destruction of anonymity, and also there are attempts to control decentralization from a single source. And all this is influenced by the drastic changes taking place in the world not only because of armed wars, but also because of ideological wars.

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Wars like the one in Ukraine cast a long, ugly shadow across everything, crypto included. When bombs start falling, it ain't just buildings and lives that crumble, it's the whole damn interconnected web of the global economy. And yeah, even digital wealth, with all its promises of freedom and independence, ain't immune to the tremors.

But here's the thing, partner: while war throws a mean punch, it doesn't necessarily spell the end of digital wealth. This ain't our first rodeo – crypto's weathered its fair share of storms, from regulatory crackdowns to market crashes that would make a roller coaster jealous. Each time, it's come out a little bruised and battered, maybe, but still standing tall.

Why? Because the core principles of crypto – decentralization, transparency, and resilience – are rock solid. Unlike traditional financial systems, where one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, crypto spreads the risk like butter on toast. No single entity, no single server, can control the entire network. Even if individual coins take a hit, the foundation of digital wealth, the tech that makes it tick, has proven it can weather the storm.

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Quote from: usekevin on December 21, 2023, 05:27:13 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on December 21, 2023, 04:48:16 PM

China is now actively "colonizing" neighboring regions, diverting the attention of these countries by "fighting imperialism, the U.S., and the dollar." At the same time, China has already become a colonizer of the countries of the African continent, part of Southeast Asia, and is trying to expand its "quiet colonies" in other regions. And many people fall for these manipulations, losing their opportunities, future, resources.... China does not leave physical seizure of territories either. First of all, it is the idea of "demonstrative annexation" of Taiwan. One of the directions is the return of historical territories temporarily belonging to Russia, including Lake Baikal as a key goal (remember this "prophecy"). I pity those countries and peoples who fell for China's manipulations....

The China was the dominant country in the Asiatic region,the people of Arunachal Pradesh was in the confusion of the China or India border.Nearly 1126km was connected with the China by the Indian border.It was second largest border for the India next to the Jammu and Kashmir.That much territory importance hold by China in the Asian region.The five finger policy of the China made them more powerful country in the Asia region,the population in the China was correctly used by the Chinese government.The Indian also had huge population like the China,but they was busy with the internal conflict of religion,region and the ethnicity.The demand for the Chinese goods was not replaceable in the Asia nation.So the economy of the China was highest in the Asian region.

The key point is that it's still a great economy. But as you know, the withdrawal of Western markets for consumption, investment and technology is a very painful blow to China's economy. It simply has nothing to compensate for such losses. High-quality goods were bought by developed countries for stable currencies (dollar, euro) and paid a good price. After the fall in demand in the West, who to sell it to ? Russia ? So why does China need useless rubles? And the population is not ready to pay a high price for quality goods. Russia buys back cheap consumer goods from China. The fall of currency inflows also reduces the possibility of buying anything on the foreign market. The departure of investors means taking huge sums from the budget. And the burden on the budget will grow, because the fall in production will cause a decrease in tax revenues and increase unemployment. And the game of confrontation with the West - for many years, if not decades, will make China a country not attractive for Western money....

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Quote from: Argoo on December 22, 2023, 03:19:43 AM

In addition, during the period of expanding military conflicts, states are forced to tighten the circulation of cryptocurrency, fighting against the illegal proliferation of weapons and the financing of terrorism.

Yeah, that is exactly how governments want you to think and see the reason of those regulations. When the truth is that fiat money is much more convenient and untraceable than crypto. And that is cash which is used more often for some illegal activities, while crypto is not as popular for this, as states want us to believe. Crypto is used for purchasing weapons or terrorism quite rarely, because it is not convenient, it is much more open and transparent than cash. And the true reason why it is being regulated is that government want to have it under their control. And they want to make profit from it.

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Quote from: God bless u on December 21, 2023, 10:46:29 PM

War was there in previous months but still crypto development takes place because of null effects of war on it and the price go ahead without any decline. Although humans financial system can be better with the help of crypto investment but it also requires wealth and also if a financial system of a person becomes better then its up to that person but overall situations will remain same because poor are unable to invest and wealthy people are not ready to help them.

It is foolish to deny the negative impact of war on the development of cryptocurrency. War is the total destruction of people, the environment, and material wealth. It all depends on the size of the territories that are at war. If people die, their cryptocurrency wallets with the cryptocurrency in them disappear forever from the market. In these cases, the cryptocurrency market cannot react with price movements. And in war-torn zones, there are other problems than determining the damage caused by the war to cryptocurrency. And this is still impossible to determine due to the specifics of the functioning of cryptocurrency.
In addition, during the period of expanding military conflicts, states are forced to tighten the circulation of cryptocurrency, fighting against the illegal proliferation of weapons and the financing of terrorism.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on October 14, 2023, 06:22:20 AM

But if the economy is affected then our crypto assets will also be affected because the cryptocurrency market is also part of the world economy. If there were no war, inflation or crisis, I believe the market would develop better and we would be significantly more profitable than we are now. Is your cryptocurrency portfolio profitable or is it still losing value due to market declines? That is also the impact of the war on investors like us.

The success in businesses and government jobs can identify the economic situations but I think crypto market cannot identify the economy of a country. Like it is not effected by wars but economic situations of a country alters after Initiation of war.

War was there in previous months but still crypto development takes place because of null effects of war on it and the price go ahead without any decline. Although humans financial system can be better with the help of crypto investment but it also requires wealth and also if a financial system of a person becomes better then its up to that person but overall situations will remain same because poor are unable to invest and wealthy people are not ready to help them.

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Quote from: DrBeer on December 21, 2023, 04:48:16 PM

China is now actively "colonizing" neighboring regions, diverting the attention of these countries by "fighting imperialism, the U.S., and the dollar." At the same time, China has already become a colonizer of the countries of the African continent, part of Southeast Asia, and is trying to expand its "quiet colonies" in other regions. And many people fall for these manipulations, losing their opportunities, future, resources.... China does not leave physical seizure of territories either. First of all, it is the idea of "demonstrative annexation" of Taiwan. One of the directions is the return of historical territories temporarily belonging to Russia, including Lake Baikal as a key goal (remember this "prophecy"). I pity those countries and peoples who fell for China's manipulations....

The China was the dominant country in the Asiatic region,the people of Arunachal Pradesh was in the confusion of the China or India border.Nearly 1126km was connected with the China by the Indian border.It was second largest border for the India next to the Jammu and Kashmir.That much territory importance hold by China in the Asian region.The five finger policy of the China made them more powerful country in the Asia region,the population in the China was correctly used by the Chinese government.The Indian also had huge population like the China,but they was busy with the internal conflict of religion,region and the ethnicity.The demand for the Chinese goods was not replaceable in the Asia nation.So the economy of the China was highest in the Asian region.

DrBeer

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on December 21, 2023, 01:00:49 PM

For now it's not Taiwan that China wanted to invade but clearly the Philippines. The West Philippine Sea has vast number of resources to steal so why bother invade a country that is just on their backyard? China wants the entire WPS then conquer both the Philippines and Taiwan for them to control the trade route. This is actually the war of resources because the more resources you have then the more powerful you are.

Having crypto does not even guarantee that we are safe only if we survive the war. Though having assets like crypto is for me better than those other assets because no one can steal it from us and if we fail to survive then that crypto will be lost forever with us.

China is now actively "colonizing" neighboring regions, diverting the attention of these countries by "fighting imperialism, the U.S., and the dollar." At the same time, China has already become a colonizer of the countries of the African continent, part of Southeast Asia, and is trying to expand its "quiet colonies" in other regions. And many people fall for these manipulations, losing their opportunities, future, resources.... China does not leave physical seizure of territories either. First of all, it is the idea of "demonstrative annexation" of Taiwan. One of the directions is the return of historical territories temporarily belonging to Russia, including Lake Baikal as a key goal (remember this "prophecy"). I pity those countries and peoples who fell for China's manipulations....

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on December 21, 2023, 01:00:49 PM

For now it's not Taiwan that China wanted to invade but clearly the Philippines. The West Philippine Sea has vast number of resources to steal so why bother invade a country that is just on their backyard? China wants the entire WPS then conquer both the Philippines and Taiwan for them to control the trade route. This is actually the war of resources because the more resources you have then the more powerful you are.

Having crypto does not even guarantee that we are safe only if we survive the war. Though having assets like crypto is for me better than those other assets because no one can steal it from us and if we fail to survive then that crypto will be lost forever with us.

The crypto was the hidden asset to us,we no need to do any safeguards like the land assets or the gold asset.In the war,the army can cease your physical property and gold,wealth from you.But they don’t know the digital asset in your mobile phone,this help you to understand the reality.After the war,you can use your digital assets to purchase the basic needs.With this digital asset,you will be one step front of your co people who escaped from the war.Because they only depend on the government who won the war,but you can be self sufficient by this digital asset.

Quote from: itorai on December 21, 2023, 01:58:07 PM

stress can cause something like that. In today's world, many people have difficulty living their daily lives and there are many factors that influence all of that, however there is still the best solution to living a better life, don't waste this hot life because there is still life after death (for believer)

Many think their was life after the life,but who know that,is their any proven fact about this.So live your life peacefully without affecting others,you should enjoy yourself.The way of earning money must be increased in the different way,So you no need to ask any person for the loan.

itorai

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Quote from: panganib999 on October 08, 2023, 04:46:47 PM

Another would be the fact that this could easily mean that crypto would stop being used and updated since everyone's just so busy killing themselves over something trivial.

stress can cause something like that. In today's world, many people have difficulty living their daily lives and there are many factors that influence all of that, however there is still the best solution to living a better life, don't waste this hot life because there is still life after death (for believer)

0t3p0t

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For now it's not Taiwan that China wanted to invade but clearly the Philippines. The West Philippine Sea has vast number of resources to steal so why bother invade a country that is just on their backyard? China wants the entire WPS then conquer both the Philippines and Taiwan for them to control the trade route. This is actually the war of resources because the more resources you have then the more powerful you are.

Having crypto does not even guarantee that we are safe only if we survive the war. Though having assets like crypto is for me better than those other assets because no one can steal it from us and if we fail to survive then that crypto will be lost forever with us.

Argoo

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Quote from: Etranger on October 15, 2023, 08:02:55 AM

Quote from: Porfirii on October 15, 2023, 06:22:27 AM

I wasn't aware of this news, but it is terrible! Many Western governments are eager to control every single transaction with the excuse of money laundering and financiation of terrorism. The first one seemed to work, while the second one started to sound like an excuse for control. But now, if what you say is true, they'll have the perfect argument to make every hodler look guilty until proven otherwise. Expect KYC everywhere for everything related to crypto Sad

This is true, I mean the news about Russia selling weapons from the war field in Ukraine to HAMAS, however, I have doubt that it will lead to KYC everywhere, because governments can close their eyes on many deeds when it is not advantageous for them to pay attention. Moreover, control requires very serious developed tools and a large staff of employees to carry out this work. But now not everyone can afford it.

However, in general this statement is true. States will legalize cryptocurrency if at least general control over the movement of funds in cryptocurrency is observed. You should always remember that it is much easier to prohibit than to control some process. Therefore, KYC will in the future spread almost everywhere where cryptocurrency will be converted into fiat. Especially now, when military conflicts are growing, the demand for weapons is growing and various terrorist associations are raising their heads.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Etranger on October 19, 2023, 04:46:27 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on October 17, 2023, 09:54:52 AM

Like every instrument, cryptocurrency has “two sides of the coin” - on the one hand, freedom, convenience, technology,... On the other hand, the use of technology to finance terrorism, tax evasion, payment for prohibited things,...
And the saddest thing is that both sides of the coin are made by PEOPLE! It’s like a story about weapons - they were invented for hunting and protection, but in the end they began to be used to destroy their own kind... Accordingly, another question is - are people ready for such decisions? Or what needs to be done to ensure that good decisions are not used for evil?

PS...but we have to pay taxes!

These two sides are in absolutely any phenomenon. Cryptocurrencies are not an exception or something unique. Only those who benefit from linking them with criminal activity emphasize only one of the parties. But objectively, it is immediately clear that cryptocurrencies themselves are neutral, and the one who uses them gives them one or another color.

That’s the whole problem of “two sides of the coin”... People develop and invent very useful solutions and technologies for BENEFITS and CONVENIENCE. But there are often people who use these solutions AGAINST people. Directly or indirectly - for evil! And this applies to almost everything that surrounds us... From dishes to nuclear fusion - it was all designed for people, but is used against people and humanity

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Quote from: DrBeer on October 17, 2023, 09:54:52 AM

Like every instrument, cryptocurrency has “two sides of the coin” - on the one hand, freedom, convenience, technology,... On the other hand, the use of technology to finance terrorism, tax evasion, payment for prohibited things,...
And the saddest thing is that both sides of the coin are made by PEOPLE! It’s like a story about weapons - they were invented for hunting and protection, but in the end they began to be used to destroy their own kind... Accordingly, another question is - are people ready for such decisions? Or what needs to be done to ensure that good decisions are not used for evil?

PS...but we have to pay taxes!

These two sides are in absolutely any phenomenon. Cryptocurrencies are not an exception or something unique. Only those who benefit from linking them with criminal activity emphasize only one of the parties. But objectively, it is immediately clear that cryptocurrencies themselves are neutral, and the one who uses them gives them one or another color.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Etranger on October 15, 2023, 12:22:50 PM

Quote from: tygeade on October 15, 2023, 09:53:22 AM

When there is nothing bad, no wars, no famine, no bad things going on, then why would we even need anything like Crypto? Fiat would be fine as well and we would all do fine.

Even if we wouldn't have had any wars, famine and other catastrophes, crypto have its place in the modern world. Because it offers anonymity along with transparency which fiat cannot provide. Fiat is controlled by governments, while crypto is decentralised and more free to be used.

Like every instrument, cryptocurrency has “two sides of the coin” - on the one hand, freedom, convenience, technology,... On the other hand, the use of technology to finance terrorism, tax evasion, payment for prohibited things,...
And the saddest thing is that both sides of the coin are made by PEOPLE! It’s like a story about weapons - they were invented for hunting and protection, but in the end they began to be used to destroy their own kind... Accordingly, another question is - are people ready for such decisions? Or what needs to be done to ensure that good decisions are not used for evil?

PS...but we have to pay taxes!

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Quote from: Argoo on October 15, 2023, 05:18:09 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on October 14, 2023, 06:22:20 AM

Quote from: gunhell16 on October 13, 2023, 05:50:04 PM

If there are wars like what is happening now in Russia vs. Ukraine and Israel vs. Hamas, I don't think we crypto enthusiasts will be affected much by this, except for the people who believe in crypto who are in the country of war itself.

People like that opportunity, and our crypto assets should be stored well, not only in hardware wallets but for USBs or sny cold wallets. Physical things can be damaged, but not digital assets like Bitcoin. The economy can also be affected, but not the digital assets we have. The recovery of the country may take a long time when the war ends.

I recently read in the news that Russia, on the eve of the Hamas attack on Israel, transferred over $80 million in cryptocurrency to Hamas cryptocurrency wallets. In addition to the fact that this indicates Russia’s support for this terrorist formation in its war against Israel, the state and, first of all, the countries of Europe and the United States will most likely be forced to respond to this fact by introducing stricter regulation of the circulation of cryptocurrency and, above all, in relation to cryptocurrencies with a high degree of anonymity.

The war between Hamas and Israel threatens to escalate into a military confrontation involving many countries. This is definitely bad for cryptocurrency.

After writing this post, I discovered confirmation of this proposal.

https://www.unian.net/world/v-ssha-sobirayusya-prekratit-vozmozhnost-finansirovat-hamas-s-pomoshchyu-kriptovalyuty-12424515.html

This issue is the one that concerns me. My fear is the "free" world will crack down on BTC like a mofo KYC KYC KYC over and over and over.

If we bog down In a triple front conflict.

Ukraine _ Russia
Israel _ Palestine
Taiwan _ China

a lot of wealth to help terrorists will move via blockchains.

Many new restrictions could occur. Thus making large indentations against crypto.

Right Now Iran has had 6 billion frozen by western world.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cory-booker-6-billion-iranian-oil-assets-frozen-a-dollar-of-it-has-not-gone-out/

Crypto could help money move to Iran. Thus we all get punished via more and more attacks on crypto as a terror threat.

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Quote from: Porfirii on October 15, 2023, 06:22:27 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on October 15, 2023, 06:15:34 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on October 14, 2023, 06:22:20 AM

I recently read in the news that Russia, on the eve of the Hamas attack on Israel, transferred over $80 million in cryptocurrency to Hamas cryptocurrency wallets. In addition to the fact that this indicates Russia’s support for this terrorist formation in its war against Israel, the state and, first of all, the countries of Europe and the United States will most likely be forced to respond to this fact by introducing stricter regulation of the circulation of cryptocurrency and, above all, in relation to cryptocurrencies with a high degree of anonymity.

The war between Hamas and Israel threatens to escalate into a military confrontation involving many countries. This is definitely bad for cryptocurrency.

After writing this post, I discovered confirmation of this proposal.

https://www.unian.net/world/v-ssha-sobirayusya-prekratit-vozmozhnost-finansirovat-hamas-s-pomoshchyu-kriptovalyuty-12424515.html

In addition, there is already information that it was Russia that "worked on the project" of transferring to its brother Hamas, weapons that were seized on the territory of Ukraine, in order to create the appearance of "uncontrolled spread of military aid to Ukraine".
There are already a lot of recordings in the public domain, where among the cries of Hamas terrorists one can clearly hear the cries of Russian "consultants" - "withdraw, cover, ....".
Next week there will be interesting information about the investigation into the interaction between the Kremlin and Hamas leaders, funding of technical assistance... Israel and the US will not keep quiet this time and the world will soon find out who is the mother of world terrorism.

-snip-

I wasn't aware of this news, but it is terrible! Many Western governments are eager to control every single transaction with the excuse of money laundering and financiation of terrorism. The first one seemed to work, while the second one started to sound like an excuse for control. But now, if what you say is true, they'll have the perfect argument to make every hodler look guilty until proven otherwise. Expect KYC everywhere for everything related to crypto Sad

It is unlikely that this will turn into a "default charge", with a high probability that the rules and laws for working in the crypto market will be strengthened. In any case, all criminal transactions with cryptocurrency are mostly finalized by converting criminal money into fiat currency bundles. It's just that not everyone is interested in the numbers in the blockchain, because not everything in the end of illegal "activity" can be purchased with cryptocurrency. Therefore, new mechanisms will be introduced in financial systems, banks, funds,..... Yes, it is not in the hands of the average person, but this is the price of using cryptocurrency in illegal or anti-human affairs

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Quote from: philipma1957 on October 08, 2023, 02:30:03 PM

I start this thread because my other thread was moved to politics.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62960887

2200 Rockets shot at Israel 40 killed.
October 07, 2023, 09:43:26

I have zero issues with the people that moved it with out letting me know.

My main point is the new conflict was accelerated because the world is bored tired disinterested with Ukraine vs Russia

So we now have Israel vs Palestine

And likely we will next have China vs Taiwan . Just a future guess.

It's so clear enough that war will definitely affect us in crypto because looking at the Ukraine and Russia

I see a huge shift in the military industrial complex's ability to earn profits. Due to modern tech ie Drones and the like.

I watched on film about 5000 usd worth of gear take out a 1 million dollar Russian tank . At no risk to the operator of that 5000 worth of gear.

So I am wondering when do these wasteful conflicts alter. Ships don't have the value they used to have.

you can sink a 500 million dollar ship with a 20,000 dollar drone.

This mean a huge shift in making money with military gear is going to occur over the next 5-10 years.

Is this new conflict going to be yet one more shift in weaponry.

And does the ability to easily attack almost anywhere anyplace mean having crypto is more important than physical assets.

I.E 10,000 cash in a home could be burnt. But my digital wealth is safe.

So forget

the war as political and think of the economic angles here.

To all in Ukraine vs Russia I hope for peace.
To all in Israel vs Palestine I hope for peace.
To all in China vs Taiwan please keep the peace.

To this forum will the new methods of attack alter the value of physical assets thus increasing crypto assets.

It definitely would affect us all in crypto because during the Ukraine vs Russia there were massive destruction of properties and lives and so on which affected so many sectors of the economy.
We pray for peace and unity among nations but in the other hand if any country should rage war against another it will affect everything both assets and in that vein there would be a reduction and indulgence of crypto because individuals will be thinking of how to cater for their properties and stuff.

So how can your digital wealth be safe when it's connected to the Internet and electricity is being powered, what if when a missile was launched it burnt down the power station and corrupted the internet and everything was lost...u can't tell by this.and we don't pray to have such conflicts so as for we all to be on a safer side.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on October 14, 2023, 06:22:20 AM

Quote from: gunhell16 on October 13, 2023, 05:50:04 PM

If there are wars like what is happening now in Russia vs. Ukraine and Israel vs. Hamas, I don't think we crypto enthusiasts will be affected much by this, except for the people who believe in crypto who are in the country of war itself.

People like that opportunity, and our crypto assets should be stored well, not only in hardware wallets but for USBs or sny cold wallets. Physical things can be damaged, but not digital assets like Bitcoin. The economy can also be affected, but not the digital assets we have. The recovery of the country may take a long time when the war ends.

But if the economy is affected then our crypto assets will also be affected because the cryptocurrency market is also part of the world economy. If there were no war, inflation or crisis, I believe the market would develop better and we would be significantly more profitable than we are now. Is your cryptocurrency portfolio profitable or is it still losing value due to market declines? That is also the impact of the war on investors like us.

It's not that simple. War can burn a country's resources and make the economy unstable. It will increase its GDP because heavy expenses from the war will bear the expenses. War, inflation or crisis of these have their own impact on the global economy. War causes damage and destruction, it also opens up new job opportunities for people in the military industry. Inflation is considered good if it stays low and stable because it encourages spending, investment and higher wages.

Topic: The economics of war. How does this affect us all especially us in crypto? (Read 644 times)