The fate of mixers. - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

TryNinja

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Quote from: examplens on November 29, 2023, 07:06:10 PM

A complete discussion of the legality of mixers is like a perpetual mobile. If mixers were to check assets before mixing, then they would lose their status as an anonymization service. Again, if they allow all transactions, this automatically marks them as a money laundering service.
In fact, the whole process was failed by those who are supposed to prevent the theft of money, corruption, illegal trade and whatever.

It depends, actually. If all you want is anonimization onchain, which means I, Try Ninja, can't know the link between your address A and mixed address Z, then it doesn't matter if the mixer asks you for KYC or whatever. The mixer operator knows, but the outside public doesn't.

Potato Chips

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Basically why I view them as a service that comes goes -- a lot more often than custodial exchanges.

I'm afraid this trend will continue... since authorities focus a lot on the negative side, completely ignoring those who came for privacy. In addition, didn't some/a govt/s wanted for mixers to register? and most likely implement AML policies as well which essentially breaks the service.

Nevertheless, seeing how new ones are coming up probably means there is a demand for the service.

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Quote from: TravelMug on November 29, 2023, 04:40:52 PM

Quote from: bitmover on November 29, 2023, 03:36:57 PM

In my opinion, in the future we will see mixers that will refuse to mix coins from hacks or any other criminals activity.

It could be, but how fast they can identify a tainted vs untainted coins before they processed it?

Hack transactions can be traced, hackers don't transfer the hacked coins immediately to another addresses. That's why exchanges works together to block those address used to received from hack exchanges.
If mixers work this way just like what i have mentioned before on the same discussion when x mixer was seized. Then we will see little to no mixers getting shut.

examplens

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Quote from: TryNinja on November 29, 2023, 04:30:57 PM

There is an endless discussion that involes freedom of speech and freedom of privacy. Mixers are good but can be used by criminals and North Korean hackers. Is "bad people use it" enough to prevent actual privacy seekers? I for one would like for mixers to continue to exist, and in a utopian way, only be used by good people.

Maybe @FIODNederland can comment on it. Roll Eyes

A complete discussion of the legality of mixers is like a perpetual mobile. If mixers were to check assets before mixing, then they would lose their status as an anonymization service. Again, if they allow all transactions, this automatically marks them as a money laundering service.
In fact, the whole process was failed by those who are supposed to prevent the theft of money, corruption, illegal trade and whatever.

TravelMug

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Quote from: bitmover on November 29, 2023, 03:36:57 PM

In my opinion, in the future we will see mixers that will refuse to mix coins from hacks or any other criminals activity.

In order to achieve that, a high level of blockchain analytics is necessary, so they can automatically refuse coins from some addresses.

It could be, but how fast they can identify a tainted vs untainted coins before they processed it?

I mean for some of us we might be surprised if we see our coins being rejected because mixers deemed it like that, and without us really knowing the source then this could be a big problem for everyone.

As for the fate of mixers, just look at it's history, just saying.

Zoomic

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on November 29, 2023, 03:21:48 PM

Also short answer is that to escape the hammer of the authorities mixers may have to become an extension which can be used to track Bitcoin users. This doesn't provide full protection though.

This will just be like mixers working against what they are known for. I mean, in the course of providing anonymity, they now turn to privacy invaders.

Quote from: bitmover on November 29, 2023, 03:36:57 PM

In my opinion, in the future we will see mixers that will refuse to mix coins from hacks or any other criminals activity.

In order to achieve that, a high level of blockchain analytics is necessary, so they can automatically refuse coins from some addresses.

This seems to be the only way to draw a balance between providing privacy and not working against the government. But by then, it will cost much to mix. The cost of complicated blockchain analysis will be added to the cost of mixing.

TryNinja

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As pointed out by LoyceV:

Quote from: LoyceV on November 29, 2023, 02:33:38 PM

From their own website (archived):

Quote from: https://www.fiod.nl/fiod-takes-large-crypto-currency-mixer-off-the-air/

A cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal.

There is an endless discussion that involes freedom of speech and freedom of privacy. Mixers are good but can be used by criminals and North Korean hackers. Is "bad people use it" enough to prevent actual privacy seekers? I for one would like for mixers to continue to exist, and in a utopian way, only be used by good people.

Maybe @FIODNederland can comment on it. Roll Eyes

bitmover

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In my opinion, in the future we will see mixers that will refuse to mix coins from hacks or any other criminals activity.

In order to achieve that, a high level of blockchain analytics is necessary, so they can automatically refuse coins from some addresses.

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Quote from: Zoomic on November 29, 2023, 01:44:31 PM

Do the mixers actually know where transactions are coming from, maybe to not allow the transaction if it's from a criminal organisation. For instance, if Mr Bob wants to mix bitcoin he used to purchase arms in the darker, will Sinbad know that the particular coin is coming from dark net transactions?

This is possible with the right level of censorship and centralization. The government is basically tightening the noise of decentralization leaving only very little room for mixers to operate in an effort to ensure that they can track everything and no one stays off the radar.

Quote from: Zoomic on November 29, 2023, 01:44:31 PM

If No, it therefore means all mixers are vulnerable and can be taken down at anytime.

Short answer is yes.

Also short answer is that to escape the hammer of the authorities mixers may have to become an extension which can be used to track Bitcoin users. This doesn't provide full protection though.

Zoomic

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What is the fate of mixers in the cryptocurrency industry?
Mixers are often seen as bad players in the cryptocurrency industry. They can be taken down by FBI or other agencies at any time. The question is, why new mixers still coming to the industry?

For instance, in this recent Sinbad incidence, it is alleged that Sinbad committed many crimes as;

Quote

Sinbad processed funds from the hacks of Horizon Bridge and Axie Infinity, the release said. It's also moved funds tied to "sanctions evasion, drug trafficking, the purchase of child sexual abuse materials and additional illicit sales on darknet marketplaces."

Quote

Fellow analytics service Elliptic claimed Sinbad was also used to move some of the $35 million stolen from Atomic Wallet earlier this year.

SEE my question,
Do the mixers actually know where transactions are coming from, maybe to not allow the transaction if it's from a criminal organisation. For instance, if Mr Bob wants to mix bitcoin he used to purchase arms in the darker, will Sinbad know that the particular coin is coming from dark net transactions? If No, it therefore means all mixers are vulnerable and can be taken down at anytime.

Topic: The fate of mixers. - page 2. (Read 286 times)