The fear of Bitcoin monopoly in El Salvador - page 2.

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Quote from: Husires on July 14, 2022, 11:21:13 AM

I can understand that El Salvador embraced Bitcoin but their way of investing was so haphazard as if they had never consulted anyone who is an expert in financial analysis or good at reading charts.

I really doubt that they never consulted or have no crypto experts. El Salvador is a country, President Nayib Bukele won't be brave to invest in crypto if he has no experts. It is crazy if a president invests in crypto in haphazard ways. However, I agree that President Nayib Bukele is sometimes too hurry to buy Bitcoin. He actually has much time to buy at the lower rates during the bearish season. He may be too confident that BTC price really flies to $100k someday, so he doesn't really care about BTC price in the near future.

*They probably have experts at reading charts. But BTC price moves are sometimes unpredictable, reading charts don't always be effective.

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

In September, 2021, El Salvador became the first country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender; that, we are all aware of. Then President Nayib Bukele went further to spend a total of $106.3m, according to Bloomberg analysis, since it's adoption in 2021. This move was unwelcomed by citizens as they grumbled over the supposed waste of public funds but it sseemed like Nayib was looking at the futuristic benefits attached to this coins. Take a scenario where BTC skyrockets from it's present price of $19.608.8 to a high of $60k or $100k, they could become richer than China and the US combined if they decide to invest in their country like China did.
With it's adoption, the government introduced the use of chivo wallets because of its efficiency and lack of credit consumption.

Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that. But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

Yes, they might able to surpass some countries in speaking with riches but the question is, would they able to sustain? Its not comparable into those places who do get revenue on different industry and not only getting
it on an investment.They might have those numbers but sooner or later this would really be talking about sustain and we know on who would really be having the edge in relation to this.Its totally recommendable on what President Bukele had been doing but we know that there are no guarantees that we would really be reaching those heights but if ever it do reach out then the fruit of his risk taking decision would be cherish out.
Its a good new for the El Salvador but of course we shouldnt be focusing on success but also mind off to see the cons on different angle.

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on July 14, 2022, 05:30:43 PM

So does this mean it is impossible for El Salvador to be richer than China nd the US?

Yeah, Bitcoin or not Bitcoin is impossible.

If they would be because of the ~1700 BTC it would be impossible since Americans hold far more BTC than that, Brian Armstrong is said to own at least 10x times, , then there are the Winklevoss twins who god knows how much they have but estimate point at 70000 bitcoins and there is Michael Saylor who is also American, and many many others, like Tim Draper who bought 30k BTC at the USMS auction!!!
So Salvador has no chance here because Americans have more Bitcoins than they do in the first place!

But in order for El Salvador to be wealthier than the USA alone for example, they would need a GDP per capita of just lol, nearly 3 million a year, that's 22 times that of Luxemburg, and if comparing wealth, each of their citizen!!! (including 1 yo children) would need to have at least ~$19 million worth of assets.

LE:
Going further on this (why do I even do this, I don't have a clue) Cheesy

At $100k per Bitcoin, each Salvadorian would need to hold 190 Bitcoins but since there are only 21 million coins each can't get more than 3.5....
Impossible!

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

Take a scenario where BTC skyrockets from it's present price of $19.608.8 to a high of $60k or $100k, they could become richer than China and the US combined if they decide to invest in their country like China did.
With it's adoption, the government introduced the use of chivo wallets because of its efficiency and lack of credit consumption.

El Salvador's current BTC accumulation doesn't make them richer than China and the US if the BTC price surges to $100k. It might give them more funds to development but labeling them the richest country will be an overstatement. Besides it isn't the monetary fund that makes a country the richest but the overall valuation of the country from infrastructure, developments, reserve funds etc. So I think to be able to beat China and the US in terms of financial funds, they should put way more money into BTC.

Quote from: stompix on July 14, 2022, 05:25:14 PM

If Salvador would buy all coins available , 19 million of them, at 20k each they would first need about 400 billion to do so, their whole GDP is 24 billion so they would need 16 years of spending every single penny for coins.

Now, if all those coins could raise to $100,000, their whole value would be 1.9 trillion, which is about 9% of US annual GDP. To be richer than China and the US combined, now taking wealth into the equation, they would need to buy every single coin and each of those coins to be worth 10 million.

So does this mean it is impossible for El Salvador to be richer than China nd the US?

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Quote from: mk4 on July 14, 2022, 11:14:49 AM

El Salvador currently has 1,771 BTC[1]. BTC skyrocketing to $100,000 is going to end them with only $177m (not including the buy cost). That's literally nothing in contrast to how much funds the United States and China has.

[1] https://bitcointreasuries.net/

Yeah, that is just funny.

If Salvador would buy all coins available , 19 million of them, at 20k each they would first need about 400 billion to do so, their whole GDP is 24 billion so they would need 16 years of spending every single penny for coins.

Now, if all those coins could raise to $100,000, their whole value would be 1.9 trillion, which is about 9% of US annual GDP. To be richer than China and the US combined, now taking wealth into the equation, they would need to buy every single coin and each of those coins to be worth 10 million.

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Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that.

No it's not!

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

they could become richer than China and the US combined if they decide to invest in their country like China did.

How could they be? I haven't imagine and thought of that they'll be more than these two superpowers even if bitcoin skyrockets to an unexpected price or even $1M, I guess?

Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

Monopolists are everywhere, whatever they do, they'll do it with any situation that they can. Despite there's the new adoption that's happening there, they can still adjust on it.

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Quote from: Gyfts on July 14, 2022, 02:16:07 PM

There isn't a country in the world that would buy enough BTC to become richer than the U.S/China unless you their respective currencies were to collapse entirely and Bitcoin becomes the global reserve currency. It's not a bad idea for El Salvador to put some crypto in their country's reserves, but as you mention, it's not very palatable to most of their citizens when they there's extreme poverty issues. They currently have a negative ROI so it's at tough sell for the government.

There's no how El Salvador will be richer than any rich country with bitcoin investment. The best they can attain is having a stable economy which is actually what Bukele is looking at.
El Salvador would only be richer than US if they bought the 1,770 btc when two pizzas was bought with 10,000 btc, lol.

I didn't quite understand op's idea of monopolising btc is El Salvador. Maybe I'll wait for a clearer explanation.

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

This move was unwelcomed by citizens as they grumbled over the supposed waste of public funds

This is funny and I somehow pity them with their ignorance, was not/it is not a forced currency imposed on people but as legal tender which means it can be used as a settlement of debt and exchange of goods without any problem within that jurisdiction, no business entity is or was forced to accept bitcoin, its a choice.

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With it's adoption, the government introduced the use of chivo wallets because of its efficiency and lack of credit consumption

My concern about this Chivo wallet is that it is centralized storage which is not in line with my view of bitcoin adoption, every bitcoin in those wallets are watched and if things go south, they could be seized and even get arrested, you know the government and their shitty head especially if there is a change in the government or if another party take over democracy in El Salvador.

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Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that. But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

Same as I have said above, using of that centralised app is not a good choice of the wallet if Bukelle wanted bitcoin for everyone and not somebody(government).

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Quote from: Husires on July 14, 2022, 11:21:13 AM

I can understand that El Salvador embraced Bitcoin but their way of investing was so haphazard as if they had never consulted anyone who is an expert in financial analysis or good at reading charts.

I remember that there was a chart of the purchase dates and it all seemed random without a solid economic plan as the price collapsed several times after the purchases.

Currently and historically, the price is ideal for investment, but we did not hear more investments, which reflects the economic situation in that country.

On June 30, El Salvador also bought another 80 bitcoins for $19k. This is considered the lowest price they can afford and this purchase is very small compared to the previous ones. Perhaps they have run out of funds to invest in bitcoin and the world economic situation is unstable they are hoarding money to deal with upcoming difficulties rather than buying bitcoin at this point.

The bear market is not expected to end anytime soon, so I hope they have a long-term holding plan and strategy in place.

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I do not think such a thing needs to be feared. I mean think about it we are talking about something that is very rare chance to happen, why would we worry about the potential of something that is not even here or even discussed.

The "anxiety" of it, being the fact that worrying about things that are not happening, is a psychological problem that people have been dealing with for many years. Sure be ready for it, there is nothing wrong with being ready for anything, but being worried and getting ready are not the same things. I personally would believe that El Salvador and monopoly would not be in the same sentence right now, it is not there at all, not ready for it.

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There isn't a country in the world that would buy enough BTC to become richer than the U.S/China unless you their respective currencies were to collapse entirely and Bitcoin becomes the global reserve currency. It's not a bad idea for El Salvador to put some crypto in their country's reserves, but as you mention, it's not very palatable to most of their citizens when they there's extreme poverty issues. They currently have a negative ROI so it's at tough sell for the government.

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

Can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

It entirely depends on the type of monopolists! A legal and tax paying monopolist wouldn't bother whether the transactions are public or not. But an illegal monopolist will be definitely worried because their data is becoming public. A tax evader will be worried. A criminal will surely be worried. A black market dealer will be worried.

So it entirely depends on the type of monopolist. If you stand at the right side of the law, you shouldn't be worried at all.

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They had good vision I mean the president of the Salvadorian Nation. If Bitcoin takes an upward flow then believe they will be richer or a rich nation as said. There citizens are really not really not into the usage of Bitcoin for peer to peer transactions. If you take a good look or research you will notice that most business and organizations do not make use of Bitcoin. They are only influenced by the government.

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

In September, 2021, El Salvador became the first country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender; that, we are all aware of. Then President Nayib Bukele went further to spend a total of $106.3m, according to Bloomberg analysis, since it's adoption in 2021. This move was unwelcomed by citizens as they grumbled over the supposed waste of public funds but it sseemed like Nayib was looking at the futuristic benefits attached to this coins. Take a scenario where BTC skyrockets from it's present price of $19.608.8 to a high of $60k or $100k, they could become richer than China and the US combined if they decide to invest in their country like China did.
With it's adoption, the government introduced the use of chivo wallets because of its efficiency and lack of credit consumption.

Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that. But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

Are you really serious? El Salvador could become richer than China or US if bitcoin hits 100k? I don't really think so. In total currently it just has 700 Bitcoins which in USD translates to just 14 Million USD which is no where near to even the 50th richest man of US forget about the whole nation. So trust me no country so far is scared of the monopoly they could make because they really won't be able to make one very soon and moment there is an opportunity to make one, US and China would immediately jump into it.

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Chivo is the wallet proposed but they could still use other wallets. Right? So no, it won't scare them off.
There are always other ways to keep Bitcoin and they could do that by spending just a little amount of money to buy a known wallet with better security.
They're using Bitcoin which is not their countries currency. We must not forget that fact.
So whales buying on El Salvador might do them better if the demand will increase again.

fiulpro

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Can you really scare off monopolists? Can you scare off the whales? Can you ask someone like Elon Musk, not to invest or can you formulate a law that Bill Gates cannot hold Bitcoins? NO
That's ofcourse a disadvantage of having a system which is not governed by a central body, i do think that you do understand, other than spreading correct, informative knowledge none of us holds any power over the whole system and therefore we need to try and look at the positive outcomes that they might bring, increase in price, more trading opportunities, howsoever temporary.

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I can understand that El Salvador embraced Bitcoin but their way of investing was so haphazard as if they had never consulted anyone who is an expert in financial analysis or good at reading charts.

I remember that there was a chart of the purchase dates and it all seemed random without a solid economic plan as the price collapsed several times after the purchases.

Currently and historically, the price is ideal for investment, but we did not hear more investments, which reflects the economic situation in that country.

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El Salvador currently has 1,771 BTC[1]. BTC skyrocketing to $100,000 is going to end them with only $177m (not including the buy cost). That's literally nothing in contrast to how much funds the United States and China has.

[1] https://bitcointreasuries.net/

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on July 14, 2022, 06:40:42 AM

Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that. But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

It probably could but they'd probably just start using something else instead to store their wealth.

If it's just cash then I can imagine them.finding ways to blend in more (like by continuously depositing and withdrawing smaller amounts or by not having much income paid there - wealthy people that stay wealthy tend to earn more than they spend anyway).

Majestic-milf

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In September, 2021, El Salvador became the first country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender; that, we are all aware of. Then President Nayib Bukele went further to spend a total of $106.3m, according to Bloomberg analysis, since it's adoption in 2021. This move was unwelcomed by citizens as they grumbled over the supposed waste of public funds but it sseemed like Nayib was looking at the futuristic benefits attached to this coins. Take a scenario where BTC skyrockets from it's present price of $19.608.8 to a high of $60k or $100k, they could become richer than China and the US combined if they decide to invest in their country like China did.
With it's adoption, the government introduced the use of chivo wallets because of its efficiency and lack of credit consumption.

Granted, Chivo is a public ledger, hence the citizens can be aware of transactions and all that. But where I need your opinions is on this: can it be made public enough to scare off monopolists?

Topic: The fear of Bitcoin monopoly in El Salvador - page 2. (Read 374 times)