The future of Bitcoin as payment means - page 6.

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Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

More also, before bitcoin will become used by everyone across the world as means of payment, most users hear must have grown white Bear,

Surely it's not expected that everyone most accept the use of bitcoin. Who'd even impose such policy in the first place when bitcoin on its own is a decentralized currency? Even the El Salvador that accepted it as legal tender for payments wasn't a force abiding but the government only made it and open source for individuals in its respective religion to make their decisions on the technology.
El Salvador isn't a world power neither is the treasures of the world centered on them to say everyone most follow their steps up to accepting bitcoin.
But one thing is sure that as the world keep to approach devaluations of fiats and people growing poorer, such is the more reasons why bitcoin adoption would keep growing until it's dominated.
So believe it that the virtual of bitcoin is based on individual and not about the government strategies for bitcoin is a decentralized financial technology.

mindrust

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Quote from: OcTradism on October 08, 2024, 12:01:35 AM

we have to consider security of these blockchains together with what blockchains can give us cheaper transaction fees.
https://howmanyconfs.com/
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y

Two above websites can help to check blockchain security comparison (the first site) and transaction fee comparison (the second site).

That’s why I only mentioned ltc, doge and xmr. I could have mentioned say shib too but I haven’t. It is because there are too many shitcoin around at the moment. They might seem to work at the moment but it is not worth the risk when there are other established altcoins which I mentioned above.

I thought about it one more time and I think xmr also have some traits of bitcoin. Since it is fully anonymous and not many people want to use it, it is probably the second best store of value coin. (Even though the XMR price doesn’t reflect it) Too bad it doesn’t have limited supply but since its inflation rate is very low I don’t think it will matter much in the long run.

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Quote from: icalical on October 08, 2024, 01:30:32 AM

Governments around the world closely monitor the Bitcoin's situation and urge the imposition of regulations, but that is not because they want to keep people in poverty. For example, El Salvador adopted Bitcoin as legal tender, but it became the target of suspicions from organizations such as the IMF, which issued warnings about possible threats related to financial stability and lack of transparency. IMF even urged El Salvador to make some adjustments in its Bitcoin-related regulations.

BitCoin is excellent in theory about decentralization, but the hassles are very much real in the form of volatility and security concerns. Even in El Salvador, calls for heightened regulation persist in protecting its consumers and deterring illicit activities, such as money laundering. It is not a power struggle on the part of the governments but rather an initiative to make sure of the general safety and resilience of the financial system. That said, Bitcoin adoption globally is on the increase, including in countries like Argentina looking into similar policies-meaning governments are not wholly against it.

Interesting. Never heard about the same processes in Argentina, I should take a look at them because I think there are articles already.
I hope that El Salvador will move forward and adopt the BTC for the better of themselves and their people. So that their economy would be safe and intact.

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Quote from: Ever-young on October 07, 2024, 05:43:52 PM

The government welcomes new technology, and the only problem I think the government has with Bitcoin is because of its decentralised nature, not because they are afraid that it will make everyone rich; they just fear it because it promotes privacy and makes it harder for them to know who is the owner of the wallet that holds this and that, which is why they are fighting against privacy tools.

Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

We all know that through Bitcoin, every one will be there own boss. No control or submission to any authority over your own belonging or money, the life threatening taxes will be done away with.

Bitcoin can't make everyone in the world rich; it can only make a few individuals out of the total world population rich and not the entire world. It's not enough to pull out such; beside, it's merely to be used to carry out seemless transactions and not a poverty eradication program.

Quote

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

I still disagree with this not because I think the Government are not fighting bitcoin but because you said they want to continue keeping the people poor.

Quote

More also, before bitcoin will become used by everyone across the world as means of payment, most users hear must have grown white Bear,

Bitcoin is here to serve as an alternative means of payment. Even if all governments approve its use, not everyone will love to make use of it; some prefer to remain old-fashioned.

You have actually said it all, the government welcome new technology everyday, it's just because of the decentralized nature of Bitcoin, that's why they government are scrutinizing it, apart from that they sees no problem with Bitcoin.
Because Bitcoin deprived them of that control that a government of a state needs to govern.

Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

We all know that through Bitcoin, every one will be there own boss. No control or submission to any authority over your own belonging or money, the life threatening taxes will be done away with.

Then on this particular statement her by the op, I have a question for you, you said that Bitcoin will make everyone his or her own boss, so I want to ask you, In Salvador that Bitcoin is already legalize, is everyone rich? Or is everyone their own boss? Or are no one submitting to the government? So please stop making it look as if Bitcoin is going to be a major problem of the government, because it's not.

icalical

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Governments around the world closely monitor the Bitcoin's situation and urge the imposition of regulations, but that is not because they want to keep people in poverty. For example, El Salvador adopted Bitcoin as legal tender, but it became the target of suspicions from organizations such as the IMF, which issued warnings about possible threats related to financial stability and lack of transparency. IMF even urged El Salvador to make some adjustments in its Bitcoin-related regulations.

BitCoin is excellent in theory about decentralization, but the hassles are very much real in the form of volatility and security concerns. Even in El Salvador, calls for heightened regulation persist in protecting its consumers and deterring illicit activities, such as money laundering. It is not a power struggle on the part of the governments but rather an initiative to make sure of the general safety and resilience of the financial system. That said, Bitcoin adoption globally is on the increase, including in countries like Argentina looking into similar policies-meaning governments are not wholly against it.

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Quote from: OcTradism on October 08, 2024, 12:01:35 AM

Quote from: mindrust on October 07, 2024, 11:21:46 PM

I don’t think bitcoin will be people’s first choice to make payments as bitcoin transaction fees get very high under heavy load. Right now the fees are very cheap but still not as cheap as major alts. LTC and Doge are more suitable for the task imo. Since you will be using them to make payments, their decentralization feature isn’t as important.

Bitcoin on the other hand, needs to be decentralized because many people keep their life savings in bitcoin, not in alts. Alts can mess stuff up occasionally, just use the other one that is cheaper in that scenario.

However there isn’t really an alternative to bitcoin when it comes to save wealth digitally.

Payments > doge, ltc, xmr
Digital gold > only btc

When considering a cryptocurrency for transactions, and also thinking of transaction fee, we have to consider security of these blockchains together with what blockchains can give us cheaper transaction fees.
https://howmanyconfs.com/
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y

Two above websites can help to check blockchain security comparison (the first site) and transaction fee comparison (the second site).

Litecoin and Dogecoin are good altcoins for transactions. Monero is only fitted for people who are ready for privacy and know deeper steps on transactions with privacy coin, and don't want to have troubles with centralized exchanges.

Thank you very much for the sources listed!
Indeed, I would too put my money and trust into Litecoin, not in Doge per se Grin

Also, I heard a lot about Monero, but I didn't dig into it too deep, maybe - I should. As I understood, it has its extra steps for it that would be beneficial privacy-wise.

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Quote from: mindrust on October 07, 2024, 11:21:46 PM

I don’t think bitcoin will be people’s first choice to make payments as bitcoin transaction fees get very high under heavy load. Right now the fees are very cheap but still not as cheap as major alts. LTC and Doge are more suitable for the task imo. Since you will be using them to make payments, their decentralization feature isn’t as important.

Bitcoin on the other hand, needs to be decentralized because many people keep their life savings in bitcoin, not in alts. Alts can mess stuff up occasionally, just use the other one that is cheaper in that scenario.

However there isn’t really an alternative to bitcoin when it comes to save wealth digitally.

Payments > doge, ltc, xmr
Digital gold > only btc

When it comes to payment methods, people often only care about speed and transaction fees, few people care about decentralization and privacy. I agree with what you say, bitcoin will not be everyone's first choice or preferred payment method.

I wonder if those who want to make bitcoin a payment method use bitcoin for everyday bills and are they willing to pay extra transaction fees even for bills of just a few dollars? I wonder if people who want to make bitcoin a payment method will use bitcoin for everyday bills? And are they willing to pay extra transaction fees even for bills of just a few dollars? Meanwhile, if we use altcoins, we won't have to spend too much money on transaction fees or even no fees if we use fiat. Honestly, I don't see any good reason to use bitcoin as a payment method, especially for my everyday bills.

Given the characteristics of bitcoin, it is more suitable to be an investment, an asset than a payment method.

OcTradism

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Quote from: mindrust on October 07, 2024, 11:21:46 PM

I don’t think bitcoin will be people’s first choice to make payments as bitcoin transaction fees get very high under heavy load. Right now the fees are very cheap but still not as cheap as major alts. LTC and Doge are more suitable for the task imo. Since you will be using them to make payments, their decentralization feature isn’t as important.

Bitcoin on the other hand, needs to be decentralized because many people keep their life savings in bitcoin, not in alts. Alts can mess stuff up occasionally, just use the other one that is cheaper in that scenario.

However there isn’t really an alternative to bitcoin when it comes to save wealth digitally.

Payments > doge, ltc, xmr
Digital gold > only btc

When considering a cryptocurrency for transactions, and also thinking of transaction fee, we have to consider security of these blockchains together with what blockchains can give us cheaper transaction fees.
https://howmanyconfs.com/
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y

Two above websites can help to check blockchain security comparison (the first site) and transaction fee comparison (the second site).

Litecoin and Dogecoin are good altcoins for transactions. Monero is only fitted for people who are ready for privacy and know deeper steps on transactions with privacy coin, and don't want to have troubles with centralized exchanges.

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Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

More also, before bitcoin will become used by everyone across the world as means of payment, most users hear must have grown white Bear,

I personally see that currently the interest in blockchain technology is increasingly interesting and high from many circles, especially for digital currency transactions, besides being seen as faster, it is also easy in terms of access by various parties or individuals.

For all applications, a process is needed towards mass adoption of Bitcoin and that will happen if all components are ready, meaning that if users, for example, have more funds that will later be put into their wallets for investment or trading, they will be safe from malicious attempts by irresponsible individuals when theft or cyber attacks occur.

mindrust

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I don’t think bitcoin will be people’s first choice to make payments as bitcoin transaction fees get very high under heavy load. Right now the fees are very cheap but still not as cheap as major alts. LTC and Doge are more suitable for the task imo. Since you will be using them to make payments, their decentralization feature isn’t as important.

Bitcoin on the other hand, needs to be decentralized because many people keep their life savings in bitcoin, not in alts. Alts can mess stuff up occasionally, just use the other one that is cheaper in that scenario.

However there isn’t really an alternative to bitcoin when it comes to save wealth digitally.

Payments > doge, ltc, xmr
Digital gold > only btc

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Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

The fact El Salvador accepted Bitcoin as a legal currency does not mean that other government across the world will accept it someday. The reality is that , the government will keep fighting bitcoin with all market strategy and strick regulations.

It's about other nations and it's hard to find consensus among hundreds of countries globally. Issues in other countries belong to these national citizens, not problems of El Salvador citizens.

We have to firstly look at how El Salvador citizens feel about Bitcoin Legal Tender in their homeland.

From normal citizens, as Bitcoin users who want to pay their purchases with bitcoin, to business, merchants, stores there that have to accept bitcoins as payment method from their customers.

According to discussions I read, people there especially businesses are not happy because they are forced to accept bitcoin, while they don't consider themselves as Bitcoin holders, investors. And receiving bitcoin causes some unwanted losses for their business treasuries.

El Salvador’s Experiment with Bitcoin as Legal Tender

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Although the law requires all firms to accept bitcoin, in reality only 20 percent do so. Roughly 5 percent of all sales have been paid in bitcoin through Chivo Wallet, and just as most households using Chivo prefer to keep their money in cash rather than in bitcoin, 88 percent of firms convert their bitcoin into dollars.

— Laurent Belsie

Are cryptocurrencies currencies? Bitcoin as legal tender in El Salvador.

Quote

Among firms, only 20% accept bitcoin. Enterprises which accept bitcoin are very large and only 11.4% of firms report positive sales in bitcoin.7 On average, only 4.9% of all sales are paid in bitcoin, 88% of businesses transform money from sales in bitcoin into dollars, and 71% of them subsequently withdraw it in cash.

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Quote from: Patikno on October 07, 2024, 08:01:29 PM

Which government wants its people to remain poor? I don't think any country in the world wants that, Bitcoin is disliked by governments because it can't be controlled, unlike regular payment instruments (FIAT for example) which can be easily tracked and monopolized.

The government is sure that bitcoin or crypto is being used for illegal purposes that is why they are so keen on preventing it from spreading more and more people using cryptocurrencies. It’s a sloppy excuse because the real reason why they do not like crypto is because it is a threat to fiat. They lose control over the money and they lose control over the economy.

Quote from: Darker45 on October 07, 2024, 08:42:27 PM

Don't underestimate the power of ideas. Who knows, there might come a time when governments would be led by people who are convinced that money should be made completely independent from the state.

We don’t know. One person will not be enough to turn things around. It will take more than that to deconstruct the system that most countries have been using to seamlessly turn to using crypto.

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Bitcoin is slowly becoming more popular, more and more governments and countries are legalizing bitcoin and there are not too many countries that are hostile to bitcoin anymore. It is safe to say we are getting better, we don't need hateful, anti-government posts making the situation between government and bitcoin worse.

You criticize governments for trying to regulate and manage bitcoin, so do you think it would be good if governments let people use bitcoin freely and cause the economy to collapse soon? Or will criminals become more daring and aggressive because there are no laws to stop them? The price of too much freedom is sometimes not as beautiful as we think.

Also, do you think the people of El Salvador are free and not controlled by their government? Is their government stupid enough to accept bitcoin as legal tender just to have their citizens turn against them?

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Don't underestimate the power of ideas. Who knows, there might come a time when governments would be led by people who are convinced that money should be made completely independent from the state. It has been proven countless of times that states can't be trusted with the power over money. Money has only been debased, devalued, squandered by governments. I guess time might come when leaders would realize that. At which point, Bitcoin might be the first alternative.

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Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

Which government wants its people to remain poor? I don't think any country in the world wants that, Bitcoin is disliked by governments because it can't be controlled, unlike regular payment instruments (FIAT for example) which can be easily tracked and monopolized. With Bitcoin, there are no more boundaries, between me using IDR & you using your FIAT, there's no more currency dominance, that's what makes them angry.

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Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

It's not about keeping people poor but it's about maintaining their power and that's what the government is all about, to have central power and Bitcoin doesn't allow that. But in some other areas, the government can still get themselves involved through the gateways of where people are using Bitcoin. Whether it's with the transactions, the trades/exchanges, and other means of it. That's what we're seeing, they're banning, increasing the taxes, or anything that they are in control to discourage people from having and using it. But, even with that, we're all eager to continue this. It's no longer about the future of Bitcoin but it's about the value of Bitcoin holds and the governments are taking a long time before the realize this. They should get the hint from the financial institutions that have applied for an spot etf for it and have bulks of reserved of BTC on their stash.

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The government welcomes new technology, and the only problem I think the government has with Bitcoin is because of its decentralised nature, not because they are afraid that it will make everyone rich; they just fear it because it promotes privacy and makes it harder for them to know who is the owner of the wallet that holds this and that, which is why they are fighting against privacy tools.

Quote from: Forever101 on October 07, 2024, 05:05:58 PM

We all know that through Bitcoin, every one will be there own boss. No control or submission to any authority over your own belonging or money, the life threatening taxes will be done away with.

Bitcoin can't make everyone in the world rich; it can only make a few individuals out of the total world population rich and not the entire world. It's not enough to pull out such; beside, it's merely to be used to carry out seemless transactions and not a poverty eradication program.

Quote

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

I still disagree with this not because I think the Government are not fighting bitcoin but because you said they want to continue keeping the people poor.

Quote

More also, before bitcoin will become used by everyone across the world as means of payment, most users hear must have grown white Bear,

Bitcoin is here to serve as an alternative means of payment. Even if all governments approve its use, not everyone will love to make use of it; some prefer to remain old-fashioned.

Forever101

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The fact El Salvador accepted Bitcoin as a legal currency does not mean that other government across the world will accept it someday. The reality is that , the government will keep fighting bitcoin with all market strategy and strick regulations.

Reasons why they will keep fighting is not about the prosperity of the people majorly but about power and authority to control people. This is why they prefer the centralized system in order to keep the people poor so that they can run to their feet for daily bread, seek shelter and wait for other provision.

We all know that through Bitcoin, every one will be there own boss. No control or submission to any authority over your own belonging or money, the life threatening taxes will be done away with.

But as of now, no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes, it will keep facing the wrath of the angry government who need to keep people poor.

More also, before bitcoin will become used by everyone across the world as means of payment, most users hear must have grown white Bear,

Topic: The future of Bitcoin as payment means - page 6. (Read 1298 times)