Topic: The general population is insanely ignorant about Bitcoin - and here's proof. - page 2. (Read 7117 times)
July 04, 2013, 03:42:18 PM
I just love it how it is always mentioned that Bitcoin is linked to illegal money laundering and/or underground, how come this never comes up with the USD?
July 04, 2013, 02:50:00 PM
And: great attempt by the way. I am reading through the forum, very silly. But at least you made some people think about it, thank you.
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
The stupid is strong with this one
July 04, 2013, 02:24:35 PM
And: great attempt by the way. I am reading through the forum, very silly. But at least you made some people think about it, thank you.
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
The stupid is strong with this one
July 04, 2013, 02:03:04 PM
One will notice these notes were the last national currency of the United States (United States Notes) being replaced with the Federal Reserve Notes.
The federal reserve being a private cartel of corporations and the private script they issue is about as federal as federal express.
The United States Notes were a bill of credit. Each note being backed by reserves of precious metals (either silver or gold) in US Treasury vaults. It was exactly like buying and selling in gold except more convinient. If you didn't trust the US government you could take each paycheck cash it for US Notes and then redeem those for physical bullion. Federal reserve notes on the other hand are issued by debt and the interest becomes an obligation of the United States and indirectly upon all the citizens and residents. I have to give credit where credit is due, the transition (which took decades) was a awesomely well played bait and switch, that gave a private cartel of bankers something they tried to get for nearly two centuries ... complete and absolute control over the money on the United States.
The federal reserve being a private cartel of corporations and the private script they issue is about as federal as federal express.
The United States Notes were a bill of credit. Each note being backed by reserves of precious metals (either silver or gold) in US Treasury vaults. It was exactly like buying and selling in gold except more convinient. If you didn't trust the US government you could take each paycheck cash it for US Notes and then redeem those for physical bullion. Federal reserve notes on the other hand are issued by debt and the interest becomes an obligation of the United States and indirectly upon all the citizens and residents. I have to give credit where credit is due, the transition (which took decades) was a awesomely well played bait and switch, that gave a private cartel of bankers something they tried to get for nearly two centuries ... complete and absolute control over the money on the United States.
Quote
Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws.
If you're interested, for more info on what D&T is talking about, this is a good start
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4
"All wars are bankers' wars"
July 04, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
It is kinda hard to believe people would still think dollars are backed by gold but then again fiat currencies are a relatively new "invention". The Federal Reserve Act lead to the creation of fiat currency in 1913 but National Money still existed along side it in various forums until 1968.
Maybe he saw a really old dollar like this one and assumed the promise was still valid.
Or maybe one of the various silver notes issued over the years. However even if you find these notes today the promise of redemption has been rescinded (US notes in 1953 and silver notes in 1968).
These notes were the last national currency of the United States, issued by an independent treasury, outside the control of any bank, and backed by precious metal. I will say that again since it seems to be something that a lot of people simply don't get. The United States has not had a national currency since 1968 (and the begining of the end was in 1913). While FRNs may say "US Dollars" the Federal Reserve is a private cartel of corporations, and the private script they issue is as "federal" as Federal Express. If you deposit any of this "legacy" national currency at your local bank it will be replaced with FRNs and the notes sent to Treasury for destruction*. Why? Well banks don't like competition and they fought very hard for nearly two centuries (with lots of setbacks) to eliminate national currency in this country. Federal reserve notes are a currency in use in the United States, they are even accepted as legal tender in the United States but they are not money of the United States.
If you didn't know this already likely right not your first thought it "no that can't be right". I would say the majority of Americans don't even realize there is a fundamental difference between the two notes. The United States Notes (and other forms of national currency issued by the treasury like silver certs) were a bill of credit. Each note being backed by reserves of precious metals (either silver or gold) in US Treasury vaults. In essence if you had a US note (prior to close of redemption) the US government OWED YOU the holder some value. This made it was exactly like buying and selling in physical bullion except more convenient. Federal reserve notes on the other hand are issued by debt. They are issued by the Federal Reserve and the interest becomes a perpetual obligation of the United States. Holding a federal reserve note doesn't mean the federal reserve owes you anything. On the contrary the very fact that you have a federal reserve note in your hand is proof the government is in debt to its bankers. If the US government had no debt there would be no federal reserve notes.
As disgusting as the bait and switch is, I have to give credit where credit is due, the transition (which took decades) was an awesomely well played. It finally (by 1968) gave a private cartel of bankers something they schemed to acquire for nearly two centuries ... complete and absolute control over the money on the United States.
* A little bit of sad trivia. Since US notes were originally issued by the US government they were a liability of the treasury however the Treasury wasn't in debt because for each issued note it held an equal amount of precious metals (assets) thus the net liability on the Treasury was zero ($1 printed = $1 of gold/silver in reserve). However when the reserve was removed and sold off, the notes remained (thus $1 note = $1 liability with no matching reserve to offset it). This means the United States treasury acquired a debt equal to the amount of outstanding notes. By outstanding notes we only mean actual "legacy" national currency. FRNs aren't issued by the Treasury (they are bought by the treasury for debt). While US notes can no longer be redeemed for gold they can be redeemed for FRNs. Banks will do this as part of the normal business. They seperate the US notes from THEIR federal reserve notes and then ship them up to the federal reserve banks. The federal reserve then sells these notes to the Treasury for more debt in FRNs. Slowly overtime as the bills come out of circulation the debt by the Treasury to the holders of the currency is reduced but it is replaced by an equivalent amount of debt owed to the federal reserve.
Maybe he saw a really old dollar like this one and assumed the promise was still valid.
Or maybe one of the various silver notes issued over the years. However even if you find these notes today the promise of redemption has been rescinded (US notes in 1953 and silver notes in 1968).
These notes were the last national currency of the United States, issued by an independent treasury, outside the control of any bank, and backed by precious metal. I will say that again since it seems to be something that a lot of people simply don't get. The United States has not had a national currency since 1968 (and the begining of the end was in 1913). While FRNs may say "US Dollars" the Federal Reserve is a private cartel of corporations, and the private script they issue is as "federal" as Federal Express. If you deposit any of this "legacy" national currency at your local bank it will be replaced with FRNs and the notes sent to Treasury for destruction*. Why? Well banks don't like competition and they fought very hard for nearly two centuries (with lots of setbacks) to eliminate national currency in this country. Federal reserve notes are a currency in use in the United States, they are even accepted as legal tender in the United States but they are not money of the United States.
If you didn't know this already likely right not your first thought it "no that can't be right". I would say the majority of Americans don't even realize there is a fundamental difference between the two notes. The United States Notes (and other forms of national currency issued by the treasury like silver certs) were a bill of credit. Each note being backed by reserves of precious metals (either silver or gold) in US Treasury vaults. In essence if you had a US note (prior to close of redemption) the US government OWED YOU the holder some value. This made it was exactly like buying and selling in physical bullion except more convenient. Federal reserve notes on the other hand are issued by debt. They are issued by the Federal Reserve and the interest becomes a perpetual obligation of the United States. Holding a federal reserve note doesn't mean the federal reserve owes you anything. On the contrary the very fact that you have a federal reserve note in your hand is proof the government is in debt to its bankers. If the US government had no debt there would be no federal reserve notes.
As disgusting as the bait and switch is, I have to give credit where credit is due, the transition (which took decades) was an awesomely well played. It finally (by 1968) gave a private cartel of bankers something they schemed to acquire for nearly two centuries ... complete and absolute control over the money on the United States.
Quote
Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws.
* A little bit of sad trivia. Since US notes were originally issued by the US government they were a liability of the treasury however the Treasury wasn't in debt because for each issued note it held an equal amount of precious metals (assets) thus the net liability on the Treasury was zero ($1 printed = $1 of gold/silver in reserve). However when the reserve was removed and sold off, the notes remained (thus $1 note = $1 liability with no matching reserve to offset it). This means the United States treasury acquired a debt equal to the amount of outstanding notes. By outstanding notes we only mean actual "legacy" national currency. FRNs aren't issued by the Treasury (they are bought by the treasury for debt). While US notes can no longer be redeemed for gold they can be redeemed for FRNs. Banks will do this as part of the normal business. They seperate the US notes from THEIR federal reserve notes and then ship them up to the federal reserve banks. The federal reserve then sells these notes to the Treasury for more debt in FRNs. Slowly overtime as the bills come out of circulation the debt by the Treasury to the holders of the currency is reduced but it is replaced by an equivalent amount of debt owed to the federal reserve.
July 04, 2013, 01:28:31 PM
Only read through a small part of it and I'd say that dev's response counts as a huge success (and a credit to the game developers open mindedness). As to the other responses, ignore them. If the developers hadn't responded I'd say stir it up a bit more to boost the views as the smarter folks will look into it for themselves but imho that would be disrespectful now. Don't forget the shill's either, games where their first big area and you can assume every game forum has at least a few paid for by bigger game companies to keep an eye on progress and encourage dissatisfaction.
I later learned this was actually the CEO! I will definitely PM him with a thought out message.
July 04, 2013, 01:12:58 PM
Don't worry OP, you did an excellent job in your first and second post. Anyone who continues to claim there is risk involved in accepting bitcoins through a payment processor like coinbase is a total retard who either can't read or can't comprehend.
Good job!
Good job!
July 04, 2013, 06:44:26 AM
Just plant the seed of an idea in someones mind, it will grow with time anyway if the 'ground is fertile'. if ya know what i mean. 
Ah, Inception, such a good movie. ^^
Ah, Inception, such a good movie. ^^
July 04, 2013, 06:17:35 AM
[...]
Good effort mate, but next time, use an archaeology brush and chisel instead of a sledgehammer.
Good effort mate, but next time, use an archaeology brush and chisel instead of a sledgehammer.
But the sledgehammer's so much more satisfying
By the time a preacher climbs on the soapbox, subtlety has already failed him (unless preaching from the soapbox is subtle).
People are used to paper money, generations and generations worth of habit. Why would an average guy chose Bitcoin over $$$ if he can't be persuaded to choose Android over iOS, linux over Windows, or Whopper over Big Mac?
With paper money, not only is the brand loyalty stronger, but the entire infrastructure is designed around fiat -- from banks to ATMs to cash registers to ... *everything.*
July 04, 2013, 05:22:01 AM
To be honnest, your best plan of attack now is to ignore the lovely bunch of ignorant fools in that thread all together and instead focus on the positive response you got from that admin.
Contact him by PM, tell him you liked his positive response and that you would love to help them out with ANY question the developers team have about the subject.
Tell them you would love to make a presentation for the developerteam with detailed explanation of both bitcoin and how it can be used by this company to improve their market share and profits. The opinion of the guys on that forum is quite irrelevant at the moment to be honest, as long as red5 sees the benefits of it you are good to go.
Make sure to be honnest in your presentation if they feel like hearing your plea for bitcoin. Don't try to sell bitcoin as a system to them with some of the clever romatizations we sometimes see on the internet. You are not trying to convince them that bitcoin is perfect and they should use it in their daily lives, you are trying to convince them of the advantages of attracting bitcoin users to buy their game using the currency. Talk about pro's and con's, the market they will be accessing, the hype it could add, and the mouth to mouth promotion it could inspire.
Warn for volatility issues that might hurt the customers, and mention how future growth of the bitcoin system might influence their bussiness! Make sure to let them feel you are there to assist them at any stage in the process if they need you.
Good luck mate!
If you pull this off, put a big post in here, i'll buy the game even though i don't know it, just to make a point.
Contact him by PM, tell him you liked his positive response and that you would love to help them out with ANY question the developers team have about the subject.
Tell them you would love to make a presentation for the developerteam with detailed explanation of both bitcoin and how it can be used by this company to improve their market share and profits. The opinion of the guys on that forum is quite irrelevant at the moment to be honest, as long as red5 sees the benefits of it you are good to go.
Make sure to be honnest in your presentation if they feel like hearing your plea for bitcoin. Don't try to sell bitcoin as a system to them with some of the clever romatizations we sometimes see on the internet. You are not trying to convince them that bitcoin is perfect and they should use it in their daily lives, you are trying to convince them of the advantages of attracting bitcoin users to buy their game using the currency. Talk about pro's and con's, the market they will be accessing, the hype it could add, and the mouth to mouth promotion it could inspire.
Warn for volatility issues that might hurt the customers, and mention how future growth of the bitcoin system might influence their bussiness! Make sure to let them feel you are there to assist them at any stage in the process if they need you.
Good luck mate!
If you pull this off, put a big post in here, i'll buy the game even though i don't know it, just to make a point.
July 04, 2013, 04:49:29 AM
Let's just say you went in way too aggressive and cocky on your approach to persuade them.
From what i can read, most of your posts besides the first one start with something like "did you even read my first post?" and have a general "you just don't understand it" vibe to them.
Thats the WRONG way to persuade people about bitcoins. Yes, they are ignorant. Yes, they don't understand the system. No need to be a dick about it.
If you are going to promote a system that 90% of the population hasn't even heard of, another 9% is skeptic about and about 1% likes, keep your patience and don't try to come over like "i'm right, bitcoin is the best thing ever and there are NO drawbacks when you use coinbase." They don't care how interesting bitcoin is. After a couple of posts, they are essentially fighting you, not the bitcoin idea, for keeping your foot in the door so aggressively. Thats not the way to get into peoples minds.
Be considerate, be friendly, respect their opinions and try to discuss with them in a non aggressive manner.
The guy in red (which i assume is an admin of some sort) said it was an interesting idea, so you should be happy. All you did after that was discuss bitcoin with a bunch of people that don't have the intention, and propably never will, no matter what you say, to use bitcoin. If the company is gonna accept bitcoin, it will be for a small part of the market that mostly already owns bitcoin, not for the dudes you are going crazy with right now on that forum.
Good effort mate, but next time, use an archaeology brush and chisel instead of a sledgehammer.
From what i can read, most of your posts besides the first one start with something like "did you even read my first post?" and have a general "you just don't understand it" vibe to them.
Thats the WRONG way to persuade people about bitcoins. Yes, they are ignorant. Yes, they don't understand the system. No need to be a dick about it.
If you are going to promote a system that 90% of the population hasn't even heard of, another 9% is skeptic about and about 1% likes, keep your patience and don't try to come over like "i'm right, bitcoin is the best thing ever and there are NO drawbacks when you use coinbase." They don't care how interesting bitcoin is. After a couple of posts, they are essentially fighting you, not the bitcoin idea, for keeping your foot in the door so aggressively. Thats not the way to get into peoples minds.
Be considerate, be friendly, respect their opinions and try to discuss with them in a non aggressive manner.
The guy in red (which i assume is an admin of some sort) said it was an interesting idea, so you should be happy. All you did after that was discuss bitcoin with a bunch of people that don't have the intention, and propably never will, no matter what you say, to use bitcoin. If the company is gonna accept bitcoin, it will be for a small part of the market that mostly already owns bitcoin, not for the dudes you are going crazy with right now on that forum.
Good effort mate, but next time, use an archaeology brush and chisel instead of a sledgehammer.
July 04, 2013, 04:35:07 AM
And: great attempt by the way. I am reading through the forum, very silly. But at least you made some people think about it, thank you.
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
I like this answer:
"No but you see, as soons as :red5: starts accepting BTC as an option to pay for Red Beans, :red5: will immediately go from a game developer to an international drug smuggling organisation."
July 04, 2013, 04:29:33 AM
These kind of drastic changes (like the changing of a fiat economy to a bitcoin economy) take a substantial amount of time to manifest themselves in a society (please correct my English). Here's an interesting excerpt from the Wikipedia entry about Paradigm Shifts:
Quote
When enough significant anomalies have accrued against a current paradigm, the scientific discipline is thrown into a state of crisis, according to Kuhn. During this crisis, new ideas, perhaps ones previously discarded, are tried. Eventually a new paradigm is formed, which gains its own new followers, and an intellectual "battle" takes place between the followers of the new paradigm and the hold-outs of the old paradigm. Again, for early 20th century physics, the transition between the Maxwellian electromagnetic worldview and the Einsteinian Relativistic worldview was neither instantaneous nor calm, and instead involved a protracted set of "attacks," both with empirical data as well as rhetorical or philosophical arguments, by both sides, with the Einsteinian theory winning out in the long-run. Again, the weighing of evidence and importance of new data was fit through the human sieve: some scientists found the simplicity of Einstein's equations to be most compelling, while some found them more complicated than the notion of Maxwell's aether which they banished. Some found Eddington's photographs of light bending around the sun to be compelling, while some questioned their accuracy and meaning. Sometimes the convincing force is just time itself and the human toll it takes, Kuhn said, using a quote from Max Planck: "a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
I think so too, btc is a paradigm-shift regarding currency. Max Planck said, not literally quotet: science goes not forward until the old garde of scientist dies.
So, let's hope for the time when the next generation - or my generation
- get the power. July 04, 2013, 03:52:59 AM
If i had said the words fiat currency and explain it to 99.999% of people in this forum back in 2004 and tried to explain it their eye's would have just glazed over and thought wtf is this guy on about?
?
So it's not surprising....
I mean only a small % of this forum really understands what fractional reserve banking is
even less the term current reserve ratio
even less, the basel accords
and even less
approved deposit taking institution, or the equivalent in your jurisdiction
so in some ways the majority of the CC/ BTC community is not that much better
?So it's not surprising....
I mean only a small % of this forum really understands what fractional reserve banking is
even less the term current reserve ratio
even less, the basel accords
and even less
approved deposit taking institution, or the equivalent in your jurisdiction
so in some ways the majority of the CC/ BTC community is not that much better
July 04, 2013, 03:43:51 AM
Befo this. I have heard different things, generalized in tokens. But the method used, not clear, boundless which service providers have been using before I know bitcoin.
Bitcoin may look like the tokens. Just make larger, more fair and everyone can monitormifmthere is out of control to ensure safe.
Bitcoin may look like the tokens. Just make larger, more fair and everyone can monitormifmthere is out of control to ensure safe.
July 04, 2013, 02:50:35 AM
Only talk to those who listen, because at some point they will have no one to rant with anymore and join up. This is how things run.
July 04, 2013, 12:15:53 AM
Their ignorance allows us to get in cheap. They will eventually get in which will raise the price and then you win!
July 03, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
the rampant ignorance of the youth... expletive EXPLETIVE how dare the world make me feel so elderly at the relatively young age of 33! 
makes me get all bearish. MUST... ACQUIRE... MOST... BITCOIN...
Those Georgia Guidestones might be right after all.
makes me get all bearish. MUST... ACQUIRE... MOST... BITCOIN...
Those Georgia Guidestones might be right after all.
July 03, 2013, 09:18:31 PM
I wanna watch that guy OP quoted go try to get an ounce of gold for $35 from the treasury.
July 03, 2013, 08:39:35 PM
On the thread you state;
But what risk are they taking on? Are you saying that OKCupid has damaged/risked its website? What about Reddit - they accept bitcoin too. What about municiple websites - did you know you can pay your electric, water, court fees, parking tickets through bitcoin now anywhere in the US?
Where can you pay your utilities in BTC?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pay-the-government-with-bitcoin-160036But what risk are they taking on? Are you saying that OKCupid has damaged/risked its website? What about Reddit - they accept bitcoin too. What about municiple websites - did you know you can pay your electric, water, court fees, parking tickets through bitcoin now anywhere in the US?
Where can you pay your utilities in BTC?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1b63xq/pay_the_government_with_bitcoin_leading_municipal/
Proper word should have been municipal services...fixed
Jump to: